May 19 CTA Timetables Available

[Busjack]

cta should have reopenned Harvard.

There was at the time of the Green Line rehab a proposal for a superstation with connections between Harvard and 63-State, but that never happened. I wonder if Harvard now has enough population around it to support a station.

That, and the proposal (as part of the Circle Line) for a station on [now] Pink at Van Buren to connect with Blue at Medical Center makes me ponder what kind of architecture would be needed to preserve a paid area between the two, given the about 40 foot difference in grade and the need to span at least one side of the expressway.

[chicagomotorman]

There is not enough of a population base there, but it certainly would have come in handy for the next 5 months.

[Busjack]

There is not enough of a population base there, but it certainly would have come in handy for the next 5 months.

I guess someone didn't think about putting a wooden staircase there (except for ADA compliance).

But, again, the question is whether the function would have been to serve the neighborhood or bus transfers.

[jtrosario]

... the question is whether the function would have been to serve the neighborhood or bus transfers.

Bus transfers - of course we can all see that there are 4 other Stations on 63rd including two that will be served by 24 hour Red line service

Neighborhood - This was mentioned by a commenter during the Red South meeting at Kennedy-King College, Their concern was that even the walk back towards Halsted(as opposed to 63rd/Wentworth) can be dangerous in that neighborhood.

So what are the options here? An added stopping point at 63rd for the rerouted 71 won't do - that's 4 long viaducts to go under along 63rd between State and Wentworth.(and 71 expresses from 69th and State to the Garfield station during its reroute) Taking a 63 to/from there to Halsted(or Ashland) might do, although its owl schedule is every 30 minutes from 1-4 am. Combine that with the change in shuttle service between 1-4am and the local owl shuttle(R55?) stops at 63rd/Wentworth then express to the Garfield station, so for 63rd - take the 63 bus or for owl take the local shuttle(or even 63). Admittedly, even I think that is a rough neighborhood, but at least there are some options for the 5 months.

What about the neighborhood walkers from stations North of 63rd? Other commenters mentioned concern for their safety in that the additional walk from the Green line stations to the Red line stations is dangerous, especially at night. It was suggested that 24 Wentworth be extended to 24 hour service during the shutdown (even if only scheduled every 30 minutes or so) in order to serve those in immediate walking Red line station neighborhoods. Claypool and others mentioned they would take that into serious consideration.

Based on the advanced schedules, and with all of the talk of concern for safety and security, apparently it was considered but not implemented. So for the 35th station neighborhood, no bus option from 12:40pm - 4:20am from/to the rerouted Red. For the 47th station neighborhood, no bus option from 1:30am - 3:43am from/to the rerouted Red. (55 has owl service) So for those that walk from their neighborhoods west of the the 47th and 35th Red line stations, their only option is to "just walk further". (just under a mile between the two 47th street stations)

[mkohut]

Why would anyone take Claypool word given his history?

[Busjack]

Why would anyone take Claypool word given his history?

As a general proposition, no. However, if this is relevant to jtrosario's post, there were stories about additional police security.

But this also gets down to how much the city has to bend over because of established gang territories. This first came up in the CTA context with regard to what stations to keep open on the Green Line as a result of the 1994-6 project, but I'm sure arose much earlier as a general matter.

[chicagopcclcar]

Updates.....Updates This edition of updates is guaranteed to contain at least one item of good news to each individual.

First, a train similar to what the major railroads would call an

inspection train rolled out today on the south side Green line. CTA officers, vice presidents, managers, boarded the train at Clinton/Lake to inspect the preparation work that has been finished or else is in the final stage before finishing. The first stop of the four-car train of 5000 series cars was Garfield/Green where participants alighted. The train arrived at Clinton/Lake with a green "Roosevelt" roll sign on the head car. On the subject, did any of you catch the Union Pacific eleven-car inspection train that left CPT (Olgivie Transportation Center) around noon on Tuesday. Eleven of UP's finest passenger private cars pulled by two brand new GEVOS.

An extensive report on materials received in anticipation of the five month Dan Ryan Red Line rehab project was presented to the CTA Board at its May meeting. Ties used in the project will be tried-and-true wood ties......oak in particular and the stockpile numbers were given. Thus, there will be no experimentation....no exotic African woods, no recycled pop bottle and shredded auto tires, no plastics, no concrete ties.

Rails are stockpiled in three main locations. I don't know the poundage that the CTA is using. Usually the number is stamped in the web, so a close inspection after installation or by other means should satisfy any curiosity.

Ballast is coming from the Lone Star state....that's right Texas....and it is GRANITE.

I don't know if its any of that pink stuff that is famed for its use on the Union Pacific and the former C&NW. The UP was noted for using the GE 6000 hp locomotives in rock service in the state of Texas after removing them from mainline service. All of the EMD 6000 hp locos were either scrapped, returned to lessor, or sold off. Now even the EMD "90-43 convertibles" that were supposed to eventually get the 6K are being stricken from the roster...frame cracks. The mountains of granite are stashed way east, over by the Calumet River near E. 93rd St. if you wanna see it raw.

Rollsigns....The Red line 5000 series cars have had their software updated and they WILL carry "red" Ashland/63 rollsigns. Don't ask me how much it costs, who did it, or how it was done...... just keep in mind that the LED signs are "proprietary" which may be a problem with the 7000 series cars. The 5000 series cars also will carry "red" Roosevelt signs. In fact, only 5000 series cars can be used for the short turn am runs to Roosevelt because the 2600 series cars used the "Roosevelt" position for the new "Ashland/63" on the mylar signs. I don't know if the update applies to Pink and Green line 5000s.

Here's a closing question to ponder....the subject has come up on several internet forums.....the use of wood for platforms, walkways, catwalks. Is there a guarantee that other materials are better, fiberglas for instance?

This morning featured a speedy ride from Cottage Grove to downtown on the Green line....not one slow zone and 35 MPH through the Harrison "S" curve and Tower 12. Wow!!

[Busjack]

Rollsigns....The Red line 5000 series cars have had their software updated and they WILL carry "red" Ashland/63 rollsigns. Don't ask me how much it costs, who did it, or how it was done.....

Look at the 3200 Rehabs thread today on how Robert Kielba, Chief Rail Equipment Engineer's specs say it is done.

And I think you owe several of us apologies regarding the manner in which you asserted otherwise.

[chicagopcclcar]

Look at the 3200 Rehabs thread today on how Robert Kielba, Chief Rail Equipment Engineer's specs say it is done.

And I think you owe several of us apologies regarding the manner in which you asserted otherwise.

I haven't asserted anything otherwise. You misquoted and mangled whatever I wrote trying to accomplish whatever purposes you think your writing about the CTA in various forums achieves, for which your reputation is known by all. I have every time stated I know nothing how the LED signs work and that I have only been told that no one knew how the signs could be changed. If they tell me that, who am I to tell them they are wrong and maybe they were not in a position to inform me. Maybe they did not know the cost, maybe they had not explored the posiblilities. It's not a life-or-death matter with me, as it seems to some. Seems you are just mad because I was not a source of information to you. If you want information find your own sources or do a F.O.I. Many times however, I might know information, but it will always be on a "need to know" basis.

I haven't read any 3200 Rehabs Thread. There's more do do in the outside world. I get my own information and validate it myself. And as far as your assertions in another forum, what I know is on a "need to know basis" and in my opinion, "you don't need to know." So you might as well stop the references.

[renardo870]

So, since the schedules are effective 5/19 @3am, when will the last train leave 95th NB to Howard, last train SB from Howard to 95th? Will that be around 2:45a or 2:50a?

[chicagopcclcar]

Updates...Updates...I've covered the new rollsigns, the ballast, the ties. I see the Tribune covered some of this in today's editions. Where the ballast is stored is the site of an old streetcar barn from days gone by that was only recently destroyed, or at least on adjoining property to the barn. Moving the rail cars from 98th St. to Ashland/63 will be accomplished over the weekend. One method will be to use eight-car trains on the Red line at times when four-car trains are run normally. Cars still needing to be moved would run in trains known as "drags" in CTA vocabulary. Drags could be possibly as long as ten cars. I'll try to get the accurate scheduling of the "last train" and the "first train." Should be a lot of photo-opts.

[renardo870]

Updates...Updates...I've covered the new rollsigns, the ballast, the ties. I see the Tribune covered some of this in today's editions. Where the ballast is stored is the site of an old streetcar barn from days gone by that was only recently destroyed, or at least on adjoining property to the barn. Moving the rail cars from 98th St. to Ashland/63 will be accomplished over the weekend. One method will be to use eight-car trains on the Red line at times when four-car trains are run normally. Cars still needing to be moved would run in trains known as "drags" in CTA vocabulary. Drags could be possibly as long as ten cars. I'll try to get the accurate scheduling of the "last train" and the "first train." Should be a lot of photo-opts.

Thanks for the info

[chicagopcclcar]

Thanks for the info

You are very welcome. Short update....observed a pair of Chicago Short Line SW's pushing a long line of ballast hoppers, mostly Southern RR along South Chicago Ave. and 93rd St. I didn't stay to see if the loaded hoppers were being routed to the Ewing Ave. storage site where the contractor is stock piling ballast for the Ryan Project. CSL was famed at one time for Simonizing their locomotives. Of course this ballast could have come from a barge interchange and could be destined for the Norfolk Southern RR. The use of ballast hoppers would be a clue here.

[BusHunter]

According to today's Tribune article, CTA's going to replace the ties with oak ones? What happened to the recycled plastic ties like the blue line has on it's expressway portion? (or the north side main for that matter?) Hopefully that's just a typo (or the description is too abstract) or we'll be back here doing the project again in a decade or so. Unfortunately if this is the case they'll be ripping up recycled ties they already have in place north of 47th and replacing them with these which have a shorter life span. Today you can look at the Blue lines ties, they look perfect for something that's been down for over 5 years. I don't understand why they would deviate from this if in fact that's what they're doing. One other thing about the article, they state that CTA is going to raise track speeds to 55mph. What happened to the idea of making that 70mph capable?

[Busjack]

According to today's Tribune article...

I've seen that story cited several times today, but no link, including on the home page. The link is here.

Most of the things you discuss are mentioned in an offhanded way, such as "the oak ties extending to Milwaukee" and the 55 mph.

The other thing I noted that was mentioned offhandedly was "demolition of the signal system" which itself was supposedly rebuilt in 2005. Maybe they only mean the connection between the signal system and the tracks.

But stuff like oak ties indicates a question whether this is being built to last. At least Hiklevitch mentioned welded rail, which seems to have lasted on the north side from the mid 70s to about last year.

But I am sure that some assistant rail engineer will be more than glad to join this group and clear this all up.

[chicagopcclcar]

According to today's Tribune article, CTA's going to replace the ties with oak ones? What happened to the recycled plastic ties like the blue line has on it's expressway portion? (or the north side main for that matter?) Hopefully that's just a typo (or the description is too abstract) or we'll be back here doing the project again in a decade or so. Unfortunately if this is the case they'll be ripping up recycled ties they already have in place north of 47th and replacing them with these which have a shorter life span. Today you can look at the Blue lines ties, they look perfect for something that's been down for over 5 years. I don't understand why they would deviate from this if in fact that's what they're doing. One other thing about the article, they state that CTA is going to raise track speeds to 55mph. What happened to the idea of making that 70mph capable?

You may not know it but the standard tie in the industry is the WOOD tie. I did a post here, including pictures about the differences in tie materials. The choice to the CTA was to go with the standard.....no experimentation. They have experimented in the past. Do you know the results of those experiments?? Just because something is new does not mean it's the best choice.

As far as 70 MPH....the CTA was the leader in high speed transit since the 1950s. They ran the Evanston Shoppers Specials that used the high speed PCC cars 6027-6030. In the 1960s, they ran the Skokie Swift which used the high speed PCC 1-man cars #1-4. With high speed it is mainly a matter of track condition and electrical power usage. By the way, top speed on standard railroad tracks is determined by a formula in accordance with Federal standards.....Class 1 up to class 13, I believe. The USA only has Class 12 on the Northeast Corridor owned by Amtrak.

The Skokie Swift showed to the CTA that 70 MPH in that instance was "not worth the expense of the electrical power required". When the Ryan line reopens, the cab signal will probably be set at 70 MPH, but that is just to allow 58 MPH with the 2600 series cars. The 5000 series tops at 55 MPH. An operational and a political decision would have to be agreed to to embrace 70 MPH operation on tracks that can support such an operation. It'll be 55 MPH for now!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sam92]

You may not know it but the standard tie in the industry is the WOOD tie. I did a post here, including pictures about the differences in tie materials. The choice to the CTA was to go with the standard.....no experimentation. They have experimented in the past. Do you know the results of those experiments?? Just because something is new does not mean it's the best choice.

As far as 70 MPH....the CTA was the leader in high speed transit since the 1950s. They ran the Evanston Shoppers Specials that used the high speed PCC cars 6027-6030. In the 1960s, they ran the Skokie Swift which used the high speed PCC 1-man cars #1-4. With high speed it is mainly a matter of track condition and electrical power usage. By the way, top speed on standard railroad tracks is determined by a formula in accordance with Federal standards.....Class 1 up to class 13, I believe. The USA only has Class 12 on the Northeast Corridor owned by Amtrak.

The Skokie Swift showed to the CTA that 70 MPH in that instance was "not worth the expense of the electrical power required". When the Ryan line reopens, the cab signal will probably be set at 70 MPH, but that is just to allow 58 MPH with the 2600 series cars. The 5000 series tops at 55 MPH. An operational and a political decision would have to be agreed to to embrace 70 MPH operation on tracks that can support such an operation. It'll be 55 MPH for now!!!!!!!!!!!

So what does that mean for the clips and plates? Will they use the plates,and clips from the blue line with wooden ties (as done on the Wells and Van Buren sides in the loop)?

[Sam92]

According to today's Tribune article, CTA's going to replace the ties with oak ones? What happened to the recycled plastic ties like the blue line has on it's expressway portion? (or the north side main for that matter?) Hopefully that's just a typo (or the description is too abstract) or we'll be back here doing the project again in a decade or so. Unfortunately if this is the case they'll be ripping up recycled ties they already have in place north of 47th and replacing them with these which have a shorter life span. Today you can look at the Blue lines ties, they look perfect for something that's been down for over 5 years. I don't understand why they would deviate from this if in fact that's what they're doing. One other thing about the article, they state that CTA is going to raise track speeds to 55mph. What happened to the idea of making that 70mph capable?

Deffinately not a typo.... I've seen the ties myself laying by the subway and they're wood. Also, the Wells/Van Buren sides were done with wood while still using the new type of plates and clips. And David has a bit of a point about experimentation cause recent slow zone maps show slow zones re-emerging in some spots on the Kennedy.

[New Flyer]

^{Seen Red Line trains at 95th with Ashland/63rd signs}

[chicagomotorman]

When was the last time on the Chicago Elevated they ran without branches?

[Busjack]

When was the last time on the Chicago Elevated they ran without branches?

Probably in the 1890s, with the South Side running only to 39th or Jackson Park, and, of course the Lake Street never having branches.

Looking at chicago-l.org, most of the branches (Englewood, Ravenswood, and the now dead ones such as Stock Yards, Kenwood, and Normal Park) were in the about 1905-07 era..

It also looks from there like the Metropolitan had branches from the beginning around 1895-Garfield Park (now Blue Line), Douglas Park (now Pink Line), Logan Square (now Blue Line but until the Dearborn subway, off the Paulina connector) and Humboldt Park (off the Logan Square).

I would contend today that the only line with branches is the Green, since the best that can be said of the Dan Ryan/Howard and O'Hare/Forest Park are they are segments of straight lines. I suppose one could argue whether the Pink is a branch of the Green or Blue (it was a branch of the Blue when its trains still ran through the subway).

[BusHunter]

Deffinately not a typo.... I've seen the ties myself laying by the subway and they're wood. Also, the Wells/Van Buren sides were done with wood while still using the new type of plates and clips. And David has a bit of a point about experimentation cause recent slow zone maps show slow zones re-emerging in some spots on the Kennedy.

For some reason they only use the wood ties on the elevated structure. The other ties are used on a ballasted surface, but they won't put those at interlockings, which are all wood ties. As far as slow zones returning on the Kennedy we don't know the exact reason behind it, so we can't blame the ties directly. Besides why were they so high on putting those on the north side main if they were so bad? Seems to me like a way to save money. I don't quite understand how putting a drainage tube is going to help with drainage, the water is going to settle where it sits. What gets it to the drainage tube?

[chicagomotorman]

Well, May 19, 2013, for the first time in well over 100 years, the Chicago Elevated will not have branches.

[Sam92]

For some reason they only use the wood ties on the elevated structure. The other ties are used on a ballasted surface, but they won't put those at interlockings, which are all wood ties. As far as slow zones returning on the Kennedy we don't know the exact reason behind it, so we can't blame the ties directly. Besides why were they so high on putting those on the north side main if they were so bad? Seems to me like a way to save money. I don't quite understand how putting a drainage tube is going to help with drainage, the water is going to settle where it sits. What gets it to the drainage tube?

The Lake and Wabash sides use plastic along with the Sheridan curve, the Pink Link was rebuilt with them and the Purple Line just before Sheridan. Wabash and Lake along with the Sheridan curve use the plastic ties plus the newer type of plates and clips while Van Buren and Wells use the newer plates and clips but on a wooden tie.... Not to mention the incline on 13th getting the same treatment. As far as the cause of the Kennedy.... Hope the slow zones doesn't turn out to be caused by the same thing on the ryan. No parallel train lines out there to reroute to. On the Congress side at least theres the green and pink to help in a way when the time comes for their project. :lol:

[chicagopcclcar]

The Congress Branch of the Blue line is scheduled to be tamped in the near future. Hope it's from one end to the other.