Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[Busjack]

The only thing missing on CC/CC Plus was the MasterCard logo- and that's why it was changed, period: the CTA gets 50% of all "fees" from making purchases with Ventra- look at Ventra's logo (CTA Pace and little Shopping Bag). hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm- doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going and why. That's probably why they made the announcement about no fare increases for next year- paid for by poor folks who can't pay otherwise.

That's about 8 months old news.

Besides that, CTA claimed that Cubic wouldn't supply the old chips.

I don't know Chicago politics well enough to know if this is a dog and pony show to show they care, or something of use:

http://www.suntimes.com/23539960-761/aldermen-want-council-hearings-on-ctas-ventra-card-problems.html

Yes, that is Chicago dog and pony politics as usual. A couple of alderman who don't want to look like rubber stamps call a hearing on something over which the City Council does not have jurisdiction. Usually involves the schools, though. Especially Fioretti, who is a publicity hound (usually involving his unconstitutional acts, such as telling Felony Franks that they can't have a sign), and has so little clout that he got redistricted out of the council, except that isn't effective until 2015.

[jajuan]

I don't know Chicago politics well enough to know if this is a dog and pony show to show they care, or something of use:

http://www.suntimes.com/23539960-761/aldermen-want-council-hearings-on-ctas-ventra-card-problems.html

If it's real, which I doubt, it could be what lights the fire under CTA management's pants in not being so slow to react to problems that they and the Ventra contractor let balloon into these huge crises that didn't have to happen. For example the software tweak some of us noticed over the weekend and that I noticed appeared to cut down the number of riders needing or having the impulse to tap their cards multiple times could have come weeks ago. Or at the very least customers could have been given some form of assurance that software updates were being worked on to try to fix some of the problems. CTA management oversight on Ventra having enough phone operators on hand could have been done weeks ago.

The one alderman, Alderman Fioretti of Chicago's 2nd Ward lends more evidence to the possibility as you alluded to that it may in part be political posturing as Fioretti has been touted by some local news circles as being a possible challenger against Mayor Emanuel in the next mayoral election campaigns coming in the next year and a half.

Whether real or not, just having the local news reporting that the issues have come to the attention of some on the City Council still serves to put even more of the population's focus on the problems that cropped up in the rollout and sends a signal to CTA management to get on the ball in fixing the problems since it potentially becomes a shot to Emanuel's ego in having aldermen calling for council hearings on how this rollout is being handled even though as pointed out they don't have the jurisdiction to do anything given CTA's municipal corporation status.

[BiT]

That's about 8 months old news.

Besides that, CTA claimed that Cubic wouldn't supply the old chips.

Yes, that is Chicago dog and pony politics as usual. A couple of alderman who don't want to look like rubber stamps call a hearing on something over which the City Council does not have jurisdiction. Usually involves the schools, though. Especially Fioretti, who is a publicity hound (usually involving his unconstitutional acts, such as telling Felony Franks that they can't have a sign), and has so little clout that he got redistricted out of the council, except that isn't effective until 2015.

That's about 8 months old news.

Besides that, CTA claimed that Cubic wouldn't supply the old chips.

Sorry to be so behind the times. That's all for me.

[Busjack]

If it's real, which I doubt, it could be what lights the fire under CTA management's pants in not being so slow to react to problems that they and the Ventra contractor let balloon into these huge crises that didn't have to happen...

Apparently it was enough to have Claypool announce that he is going before the City Club of Chicago for another dog and pony show to say some gibberish. Tribune. Also, that article says that it has been 3 weeks since Claypool told Cubic to beef up its customer service staff, but the result is not noticeable on the phone.

What might be the issue is that this continuing mess is overcoming Emanuel's talking point that he personally got the Red Line project done on time.

[jajuan]

Apparently it was enough to have Claypool announce that he is going before the City Club of Chicago for another dog and pony show to say some gibberish. Tribune. Also, that article says that it has been 3 weeks since Claypool told Cubic to beef up its customer service staff, but the result is not noticeable on the phone.

What might be the issue is that this continuing mess is overcoming Emanuel's talking point that he personally got the Red Line project done on time.

WGN's morning broadcast about this story also mentioned that many of whom still have the ability to stave off transitioning to a Ventra card have said they weren't going to do so until fixes, that come for what should have been minor glitches had CTA not dragged its feet on acknowledging there were problems, are noticeable improvements. So you are likely on to something on that front.

[Busjack]

WGN's morning broadcast about this story also mentioned that many of whom still have the ability to stave off transitioning to a Ventra card have said they weren't going to do so until fixes, that come for what should have been minor glitches had CTA not dragged its feet on acknowledging there were problems, are noticeable improvements. So you are likely on to something on that front.

The only thing likely is that the Tribune story was attributed to a "City Hall spokesman," rather than CTA spokespeople saying how many registrations and taps there have already been.

[owine]

Tracy Swartz is saying that the CTA will keep accepting all payment types until further notice. Smart move given the fact that despite what has been said over and over, many of the cards have not even been mailed yet alone received.

[jajuan]

The only thing likely is that the Tribune story was attributed to a "City Hall spokesman," rather than CTA spokespeople saying how many registrations and taps there have already been.

Actually WGN's reporter relaying the story was situated at Roosevelt and State. They did mention CTA's talking point that 50% of riders now have a Ventra card with registered accounts, but many of their interviews of folks who said they weren't switching for the time being came from that spot and other locations close to the now rebuilt Dan Ryan Red Line segment. That's why I was saying you were likely right that this might be overrunning Emanuel's talking point that he got the Dan Ryan L rebuilt.

[Busjack]

Tracy Swartz is saying that the CTA will keep accepting all payment types until further notice. Smart move given the fact that despite what has been said over and over, many of the cards have not even been mailed yet alone received.

I'm not sure that you have something independent, as the headline on the RedEye page just links to a copy of the Hilkevitch story I cited above.

Both have the same last paragraph, but I am not sure how much to read into it (i.e. have the Nov. 15 deadlines been rescinded, after CTA first said they would not be extended)?

[jajuan]

Tracy Swartz is saying that the CTA will keep accepting all payment types until further notice. Smart move given the fact that despite what has been said over and over, many of the cards have not even been mailed yet alone received.

WGN reported the same this morning with CTA also saying that the timeline for full transition is still going forward. That only leaves confusion as to whether the November 15th deadline for more transitioning will be pushed back as the WGN reporter did bring up that one at the end of her report.

[owine]

https://twitter.com/tracyswartz/status/397750807212216320'">Direct Link to Tweet

https://twitter.com/tracyswartz/status/397757849306013696'">Direct Link to Tweet

https://twitter.com/tracyswartz/status/397767665919344641'">Direct Link to Tweet

[BusHunter]

Yeah maybe they could get by with ventra as a pass, but as a pay as you go transit card this card is terrible. They just saved themselves a big headache. So I guess this means that the farebox configuration will not change for now and they will still have one transit card machine per rail station. The problem with the double charging must not be fixable without a total reprogram of the system. I know the processing screen does help commuters, they now have a little more direction in whether they tap or not, but it doesn't stop the stop screen from wrongly occuring. Fix that and they have a workable card.

[Busjack]

owine: Thanks for the tweets. I will propagate them elsewhere.

[jajuan]

Yeah maybe they could get by with ventra as a pass, but as a pay as you go transit card this card is terrible. They just saved themselves a big headache. So I guess this means that the farebox configuration will not change for now and they will still have one transit card machine per rail station. The problem with the double charging must not be fixable without a total reprogram of the system. I know the processing screen does help commuters, they now have a little more direction in whether they tap or not, but it doesn't stop the stop screen from wrongly occuring. Fix that and they have a workable card.

The stop screen in and of itself doesn't automatically mean a double charge hit is occurring otherwise I would have noticed passbacks on my card. But you are correct that they do have to get the double charging problem happening with some of the passengers out there fixed.

[Busjack]

Updated Tribune story, saying what the metrics will be until Cubic gets paid and the deadlines kick in, including that readers have to process transactions in 2.5 seconds, 99% of the time.

[BusHunter]

The stop screen in and of itself doesn't automatically mean a double charge hit is occurring otherwise I would have noticed passbacks on my card. But you are correct that they do have to get the double charging problem happening with some of the passengers out there fixed.

Yeah but it's like gambling. Half the time your losing money.

[jajuan]

Yeah but it's like gambling. Half the time your losing money.

Because of whatever fault in the original software on the readers causing the reader to register a multiple charge with some cards. Not because of the stop screen on its own

[Busjack]

Yeah but it's like gambling. Half the time your losing money.

I once suggested that to raise money, CTA should put slot machines on the wheel well. Now don't tell me that they took my suggestion for once.

[Amtrak41]

"CTA suspends switchover deadlines for problem-plagued Ventra"

http://www.suntimes.com/23555442-761/cta-suspends-switchover-deadlines-for-problem-plagued-ventra.html

[BusHunter]

I once suggested that to raise money, CTA should put slot machines on the wheel well. Now don't tell me that they took my suggestion for once.

I was wondering why i haven't seen any shell or dice games on the bus lately. Maybe they are betting on whose card will not scan.

On a more serious note, they just had an interesting conversation about Ventra on Chicago Tonight. Cubic says this is the biggest city ventra has rolled out in. They have had rollouts in philly, SF and DC. All those TA's are lucky if they are half the size of Chicago. CTA says "that if Cubic doesn't clean up the Ventra system they are going to stop payment to Cubic, possibly pulling the Ventra contract altogether." (That sounds like NABI ) Cubic says "that there is no way riders will be able to know what is on there cards at the turnstile/farebox. The technology/software does not exist." The Chicago Card does that.

Now is it just me or is this card inferior to Chicago Card? Why doesn't CTA just keep the Chicago Cards and hire a management firm to run that financially? I'm surprised that CTA doesn't order Cubic to refund riders money they have lost. That can be easily proven as all rides are a matter of record. I for one have money that I can't recoup due to the card being improperly registrated. I think this would go a long way towards mending bridges Cubic has burnt. I hope CTA hasn't lost rides because of this.

[Juniorz]

So can we say that Ventra is a good idea, just really a bad execution. CTA/PACE really didn't promote Ventra to a respectable standpoint that made customers aware that this new fare payment system was coming into play. Really Instead of launching Ventra WITH LITTLE NOTICE on August 5th, That should have been the launch date to select customers & the transition point were in now should have been the testing stage to address all the kinks most are experiencing now and launched Ventra on January 19th, 2014 & had the Transition period of Legacy Fares & Ventra parallel each other until May 2014, That way All these problems would have been addressed & Ventra would (and still could be) a success. Admitting the problem was the 1st step in the right direction, now lets how fixing it will correct the wrongs made in this Cubic-Ventra Venture

[MetroShadow]

So can we say that Ventra is a good idea, just really a bad execution. CTA/PACE really didn't promote Ventra to a respectable standpoint that made customers aware that this new fare payment system was coming into play. Really Instead of launching Ventra WITH LITTLE NOTICE on August 5th, That should have been the launch date to select customers & the transition point were in now should have been the testing stage to address all the kinks most are experiencing now and launched Ventra on January 19th, 2014 & had the Transition period of Legacy Fares & Ventra parallel each other until May 2014, That way All these problems would have been addressed & Ventra would (and still could be) a success. Admitting the problem was the 1st step in the right direction, now lets how fixing it will correct the wrongs made in this Cubic-Ventra Venture

I think while I can agree with the card being a good idea, the execution was ridiculous. I think Pace has tried to do what they could given the service area and the buy-in on the suburban areas. The good news is that Cubic has done a fine job with SF (and the registration process is much easier AND the transfers were 10 times as seamless); but dropped the ball here big time.

If anything, the testing period should've been longer, the transition period pushed back to February 2014, and the interface in the software be clearer for the consumer.

I will still contend it is still teething, with a side of bad execution. We'll survive.

[Busjack]

... CTA/PACE really didn't promote Ventra to a respectable standpoint that made customers aware that this new fare payment system was coming into play. Really Instead of launching Ventra WITH LITTLE NOTICE on August 5th,...

Apparently you don't get Chicago TV in Milwaukee. It was promoted enough, and the public rollout was September 9.The problem was that all the "gotchas" came out once it appeared that CTA was using this as a ruse for a fare increase, Cubic wasn't doing its job, and until yesterday, the CTA PR department were saying that everything was o.k. or problems were minimal. Apparently Emanuel finally figured out that the last was hurting him politically.

...

On a more serious note, they just had an interesting conversation about Ventra on Chicago Tonight. Cubic says this is the biggest city ventra has rolled out in. They have had rollouts in philly, SF and DC. All those TA's are lucky if they are half the size of Chicago. CTA says "that if Cubic doesn't clean up the Ventra system they are going to stop payment to Cubic, possibly pulling the Ventra contract altogether." (That sounds like NABI ) Cubic says "that there is no way riders will be able to know what is on there cards at the turnstile/farebox. The technology/software does not exist." The Chicago Card does that.

Now is it just me or is this card inferior to Chicago Card? Why doesn't CTA just keep the Chicago Cards and hire a management firm to run that financially? I'm surprised that CTA doesn't order Cubic to refund riders money they have lost. That can be easily proven as all rides are a matter of record. I for one have money that I can't recoup due to the card being improperly registrated. I think this would go a long way towards mending bridges Cubic has burnt. I hope CTA hasn't lost rides because of this.

• Ventra is a trade name used only in Chicago (e.g. Redeye). There is actually no such business entity as Ventra, only a contract between Cubic and CTA, with MetaBank and First Data in the back office.
• The advantage was that it was supposed to be an open standards system. However, as I noted plenty of times before, CTA has basically negated the value of the bankcard part, and to use BusHunter's gambling analogy, established a fare lottery..
• I don't know what they do in SF. Their website talks about purchasing and putting passes on Clipper Cards, but nothing about the rigamarole to put a transit account on a bankcard. Light rail riders must still purchase a ticket at a TVM if they pay with cash; apparently no equivalent to the Ventra ticket.* Paper fare receipts are used as transfers, although the Clipper Card still can be, and fare receipts are subject to inspection even if you don't transfer. The last couple of points may be more relevant to Metra than CTA, but obviously SF does not have a system even as extensive as the Chicago Card, regardless of what chips MUNI is using in the Clipper Card.
• SEPTA's site says that they are starting to install equipment on buses, but subways, Ls, and regional rail won't be done until late 2014 (faq and timeline). So, unlike CTA, SEPTA did not go whole hog at once.

____________

*Last part of sentence revised after rereading site.

[Busjack]

I did not get any call about it yet from the new calls set up. When I called Ventra the other week, they didn't show my name as having been issued one, so at least someone else doesn't have my card. They simply said cards are scheduled to be mailed this week (which I hear did go out on Monday), and on November 5th. They could not however tell me if my name was on any list as scheduled to be issued a card.

And yes, I do have a balance to transfer which I won't use up before the November 15th deadline. I'm not a daily rider but I loved the convenience of the CCP card and refilling it automatically when it got low without me having to do a thing or keep tabs on the balance.

There were several interesting things in the CTA Press Release, of course, if you can believe them.

Relevant to this question, besides the deadline being put off, is that it says "Coming soon: Ventrachicago.com will allow Chicago Card Plus customers the ability to have their balances transferred online to Ventra by providing their Chicago Card Plus and Ventra card information." Apparently you won't have to wait for the card in the mail and activate that.

Also, it says one can call the CTA 888 number instead of the Ventra one to turn off auto reload, and that Chicago Card Plus will be accepted at balance transfer events to be scheduled..

[Rippler]

I was looking through my online Ventra account more last night and noticed something odd under Order History where it lists the Legacy Order Migration with a "Cancelled" Status about 2.5 hours after originating the order. Now I wonder if they really cancelled it or are they using some odd terminology for the process?

My account summary also shows a 10-digit Transit ID number listed as Status Closed. I assumed that was the card number that was assigned to be sent to me and it shows Closed since I never yet activated the card (since I never received a card).

But after seeing the Cancelled status on the order, now I'm wondering if I'm even scheduled to receive a card at all and if others who haven't yet received their card are showing the same cancelled status.