New Idea (Again)

[NewFlyerMCI]

Route 32: Ogden

-The reason for this is whenever I am in Chicago (about every 3 months for weeks at a time) I ride the 157. I see massive overcrowding, although only during rush hour, and frequent lateness at bus stops ( I ride from Union to End of Route near Ogden/Taylor.

-The bus would start at Ogilvie Transportation Center (OTC), head NB on Canal, WB on Randolph, SWB onto Ogden passing Madison, Cermak, Cicero, until reaching Ogden/Pershing where it would terminate. It would then head EB on Pershing until turning NB on Harlem, where it turns NEB on Ogden until Randolph. Heading EB on Randolph until Halsted where it turns SB before turning EB on Washington, SB Clinton, and EB on Monroe, before returning to Canal/Madison at OTC.

-Short Trips could terminate at Cicero/26th Pl (Rt 60 terminal) and select trips could serve Rush University Medical Center & Polk Pink Line

-157 could return to its orginal terminus, Desplaines/Harrison, or Polk Pink Line

[Busjack]

Route 32: Ogden

-The reason for this is whenever I am in Chicago (about every 3 months for weeks at a time) I ride the 157. I see massive overcrowding, although only during rush hour, and frequent lateness at bus stops ( I ride from Union to End of Route near Ogden/Taylor.

-The bus would start at Ogilvie Transportation Center (OTC), head NB on Canal, WB on Randolph, SWB onto Ogden passing Madison, Cermak, Cicero, until reaching Ogden/Pershing where it would terminate. It would then head EB on Pershing until turning NB on Harlem, where it turns NEB on Ogden until Randolph. Heading EB on Randolph until Halsted where it turns SB before turning EB on Washington, SB Clinton, and EB on Monroe, before returning to Canal/Madison at OTC.

-Short Trips could terminate at Cicero/26th Pl (Rt 60 terminal) and select trips could serve Rush University Medical Center & Polk Pink Line

-157 could return to its orginal terminus, Desplaines/Harrison, or Polk Pink Line

The original 58 Ogden-Randolph was eliminated years ago, with the west end merged with the Taylor bus (whatever its number was then).

Then, at some point it was decided that the Taylor-Ogden bus didn't need to go west of Mt. Sinai Hospital, so it was cut back to there from the former terminal at Pulaski Pink Line. Apparently there wasn't the ridership for it.

Also, at some point (when CTA was screwing around with decoupling Taylor and Sedgwick) it was decided that Taylor and Streeterville matched, so that's what you have.

In addition, Randolph is practically unnavigable after Mayor Daley II put two rows of flower planters in it, as part of the 1996 Democratic Convention spruce up of the near west side.

Anything west of Cicero would be in Pace territory, although at one time the bus did go to 25th & Laramie. Pace also abandoned 312 service on Ogden in Cicero and Berwyn.

In short, your idea existed 40 years ago, but is now long dead. One time when I had to represent someone in Juvenile Court, I used the Taylor bus one way and Ogden one the other, and basically didn't see any difference worth retaining both routes for that purpose.

Having recently ridden 60, it appears that the couple of blocks away 157 is (westbound) only an alternative way to get to UIC, and I bet that's where most of the crowds were.

[mkohut]

Route 32: Ogden

-The reason for this is whenever I am in Chicago (about every 3 months for weeks at a time) I ride the 157. I see massive overcrowding, although only during rush hour, and frequent lateness at bus stops ( I ride from Union to End of Route near Ogden/Taylor.

-The bus would start at Ogilvie Transportation Center (OTC), head NB on Canal, WB on Randolph, SWB onto Ogden passing Madison, Cermak, Cicero, until reaching Ogden/Pershing where it would terminate. It would then head EB on Pershing until turning NB on Harlem, where it turns NEB on Ogden until Randolph. Heading EB on Randolph until Halsted where it turns SB before turning EB on Washington, SB Clinton, and EB on Monroe, before returning to Canal/Madison at OTC.

-Short Trips could terminate at Cicero/26th Pl (Rt 60 terminal) and select trips could serve Rush University Medical Center & Polk Pink Line

-157 could return to its orginal terminus, Desplaines/Harrison, or Polk Pink Line

If there is massive overcrowding.Assuming the CTA knows what there doing.It would have been part of the Dec 16 decrowding plan.

[Busjack]

If there is massive overcrowding.Assuming the CTA knows what there doing.It would have been part of the Dec 16 decrowding plan.

I really doubt that there was any ridership on the proposed route, as I indicated.

If nothing else, the decrowding plan axing Lincoln may indicate that CTA has little interest in diagonal routes.Also, more so that in the Lincoln case, the Pink Line is a viable alternative. Similarly, 7, 12, and 60 are alternatives to Taylor to some extent or another in the UIC area.

[MetroShadow]

Route 32: Ogden

-The reason for this is whenever I am in Chicago (about every 3 months for weeks at a time) I ride the 157. I see massive overcrowding, although only during rush hour, and frequent lateness at bus stops ( I ride from Union to End of Route near Ogden/Taylor.

-The bus would start at Ogilvie Transportation Center (OTC), head NB on Canal, WB on Randolph, SWB onto Ogden passing Madison, Cermak, Cicero, until reaching Ogden/Pershing where it would terminate. It would then head EB on Pershing until turning NB on Harlem, where it turns NEB on Ogden until Randolph. Heading EB on Randolph until Halsted where it turns SB before turning EB on Washington, SB Clinton, and EB on Monroe, before returning to Canal/Madison at OTC.

-Short Trips could terminate at Cicero/26th Pl (Rt 60 terminal) and select trips could serve Rush University Medical Center & Polk Pink Line

-157 could return to its orginal terminus, Desplaines/Harrison, or Polk Pink Line

Merging 38 and 157 did the trick, especially those coming from UIC or the Medical District to Downtown. No need expanding or disconnecting those routes. Not to mention service on Jackson and the Blue covers the gaps.

As for service on Randolph: Pink Line, Madison, or Uber (my weapon of choice is Divvy).

[artthouwill]

Route 32: Ogden

-The reason for this is whenever I am in Chicago (about every 3 months for weeks at a time) I ride the 157. I see massive overcrowding, although only during rush hour, and frequent lateness at bus stops ( I ride from Union to End of Route near Ogden/Taylor.

-The bus would start at Ogilvie Transportation Center (OTC), head NB on Canal, WB on Randolph, SWB onto Ogden passing Madison, Cermak, Cicero, until reaching Ogden/Pershing where it would terminate. It would then head EB on Pershing until turning NB on Harlem, where it turns NEB on Ogden until Randolph. Heading EB on Randolph until Halsted where it turns SB before turning EB on Washington, SB Clinton, and EB on Monroe, before returning to Canal/Madison at OTC.

-Short Trips could terminate at Cicero/26th Pl (Rt 60 terminal) and select trips could serve Rush University Medical Center & Polk Pink Line

-157 could return to its orginal terminus, Desplaines/Harrison, or Polk Pink Line

As others have noted, combining 38 and 157 seems to have worked well. The CTA actually WANTS crowded buses. That means that the route is not losing as much money as others (worst case scenario). Years ago, there was a 58 Ogden/Randoph route which got cut a long time ago. A few years ago, there was the 127 Madison/Roosevelt Circulator that wound up getting the ax because of low ridership, basically on Ogden. Apparently it didn't provide enough supplemental service on either Roosevelt or Madison to keep the route going. Though I would think any new bus route along Ogden would be doomed, the only thing I would possibly try would be a route running along Ogden from the Medical District to Navy Pier running along Ogden and Chicago Avenue. I would experiment on a rush hour only basis, but a one seat ride from the North Michigan Ave corridor to the Medical District along Chicago Ave would make for a faster ride than the current 157, could provide some crowding relief for the 66 Chicago, and provides a possible connection from North Michigan Ave to the United Center (if ran for UC events). I still don't know if this would work, but it seems more viable than what has been previously suggested.

I don't remember the north terminus for the old 98 Ogden route, but I do remember that Ogden Ave used to run into Halsted near Division before that bridge was demolished and Ogden was cut short just north of Chicago Ave.

[mkohut]

As others have noted, combining 38 and 157 seems to have worked well. The CTA actually WANTS crowded buses. That means that the route is not losing as much money as others (worst case scenario). Years ago, there was a 58 Ogden/Randoph route which got cut a long time ago. A few years ago, there was the 127 Madison/Roosevelt Circulator that wound up getting the ax because of low ridership, basically on Ogden. Apparently it didn't provide enough supplemental service on either Roosevelt or Madison to keep the route going. Though I would think any new bus route along Ogden would be doomed, the only thing I would possibly try would be a route running along Ogden from the Medical District to Navy Pier running along Ogden and Chicago Avenue. I would experiment on a rush hour only basis, but a one seat ride from the North Michigan Ave corridor to the Medical District along Chicago Ave would make for a faster ride than the current 157, could provide some crowding relief for the 66 Chicago, and provides a possible connection from North Michigan Ave to the United Center (if ran for UC events). I still don't know if this would work, but it seems more viable than what has been previously suggested.

I don't remember the north terminus for the old 98 Ogden route, but I do remember that Ogden Ave used to run into Halsted near Division before that bridge was demolished and Ogden was cut short just north of Chicago Ave.

How many different Routes do you want going to Navy Pier?

I don't think Emanuel rehab of Navy Pier includes a Bus Terminal to hold all the Routes.

[jajuan]

How many different Routes do you want going to Navy Pier?

I don't think Emanuel rehab of Navy Pier includes a Bus Terminal to hold all the Routes.

You're right that CTA seems to have decided that Navy Pier had been overstacked in bus service, given the moves in previous years that saw the 56 cut from there after the 124 proved successful in its expansion from special events only to daily service and the 120 and 121 getting pulled from there after CTA kept them as last two standing out of four rush only Metra express shuttles. However I don't think he was saying create a new route for Navy Pier for the sake of terminating at Navy Pier. His main point was his proposal could take some pressure off the 66, which can still be crazy crowded even with Claypool's DeCrowd plan measures because for now the rearrangement of resources doesn't have many artics in the mix between so many of them needed for the Dan Ryan shuttles (i.e. Kedzie using a bulk of its extra artics on R22) and Chicago not currently having any of its own.

[busfan2847]

The original 58 Ogden-Randolph was eliminated years ago, with the west end merged with the Taylor bus (whatever its number was then).

Then, at some point it was decided that the Taylor-Ogden bus didn't need to go west of Mt. Sinai Hospital, so it was cut back to there from the former terminal at Pulaski Pink Line. Apparently there wasn't the ridership for it.

Also, at some point (when CTA was screwing around with decoupling Taylor and Sedgwick) it was decided that Taylor and Streeterville matched, so that's what you have.

In addition, Randolph is practically unnavigable after Mayor Daley II put two rows of flower planters in it, as part of the 1996 Democratic Convention spruce up of the near west side.

Anything west of Cicero would be in Pace territory, although at one time the bus did go to 25th & Laramie. Pace also abandoned 312 service on Ogden in Cicero and Berwyn.

In short, your idea existed 40 years ago, but is now long dead. One time when I had to represent someone in Juvenile Court, I used the Taylor bus one way and Ogden one the other, and basically didn't see any difference worth retaining both routes for that purpose.

Having recently ridden 60, it appears that the couple of blocks away 157 is (westbound) only an alternative way to get to UIC, and I bet that's where most of the crowds were.

58 Ogden/Randolph was discontinued 9/13/1981 with service on Ogden transfered to 37 Sedgewick-Ogden. 37 reduced to rush hour only 4/26/1998

37 was split downtown 6/19/2006 with service on Taylor-Ogden transferring to 38. From 6/16/2008 cut back from Pulaski to Mount Sanai and daytime service introduced.

38 was merged with 157 from 9/8/2009.

Most of the rush hour crowds westbound are for UIC east and west campus and St Ignatius College Prep (especially 7:20am to 7:50am from Metra stations). At that time the 7, 60 and 157 are all busy westbound.

[Busjack]

...

I don't remember the north terminus for the old 98 Ogden route, but I do remember that Ogden Ave used to run into Halsted near Division before that bridge was demolished and Ogden was cut short just north of Chicago Ave.

58A/98 ran roughly from the Medical District to the Clark/Lincoln/Armitage area. Bill V has it canceled 9/13/81.

My 1969 map has it snaking, but mostly along Sedgwick north of North/Halsted.

My 1980 map has it via Chicago and Larrabee to Armitage. So the archeological evidence indicates that the route may have outlasted the bridge. Maybe it was a short-term replacement for the 10 Lincoln-Larrabee, which was gone by then.

[mkohut]

You're right that CTA seems to have decided that Navy Pier had been overstacked in bus service, given the moves in previous years that saw the 56 cut from there after the 124 proved successful in its expansion from special events only to daily service and the 120 and 121 getting pulled from there after CTA kept them as last two standing out of four rush only Metra express shuttles. However I don't think he was saying create a new route for Navy Pier for the sake of terminating at Navy Pier. His main point was his proposal could take some pressure off the 66, which can still be crazy crowded even with Claypool's DeCrowd plan measures because for now the rearrangement of resources doesn't have many artics in the mix between so many of them needed for the Dan Ryan shuttles (i.e. Kedzie using a bulk of its extra artics on R22) and Chicago not currently having any of its own.

If you read the part by Art about a bus going from the Medical District to Navy Pier during rush.That would have to be a new Route.The only way i can see that happening is with a new start grant.I would have more faith in Pace doing it then the CTA.Which isn't going to to happen since the Route is in Chicago.

I remember Durbin prospose a Route that went from Harlem/Cernak to Navy Pier via Ogden.I would have to look when he did. in 2006

The Chicago Transit Board on July 14 approved a contract with Parsons

Transportation Group, Inc. to perform an alternatives analysis study for

the proposed Ogden Transitway Project. The proposal is being

driven by U.S. Rep. William Lipinski, who represents many of the West

Side neighborhoods that would be served, and he prefers an electric

streetcar line. The route would link the North Riverside Mall at

Harlem and Cermak to the Illinois Medical District, downtown and Navy

Pier through the Ogden Avenue and Carroll Avenue corridors. The

nine-month study, which will look at cost options for various modes

including bus rapid transit, is the first step in obtaining federal

funding from the FTA’s New Start program. “The Ogden Avenue project

could serve as a catalyst for further transit-oriented economic

revitalization of the communities through which it travels,” said

Chicago Transit Board Chairman Carole Brown. “This study will determine

the best way to meet the future transit needs of the communities in

these corridors.”

[jajuan]

If you read the part by Art about a bus going from the Medical District to Navy Pier during rush.That would have to be a new Route.The only way i can see that happening is with a new start grant.I would have more faith in Pace doing it then the CTA.Which isn't going to to happen since the Route is in Chicago.

I remember Durbin prospose a Route that went from Harlem/Cernak to Navy Pier via Ogden.I would have to look when he did. in 2006

The Chicago Transit Board on July 14 approved a contract with Parsons

Transportation Group, Inc. to perform an alternatives analysis study for

the proposed Ogden Transitway Project. The proposal is being

driven by U.S. Rep. William Lipinski, who represents many of the West

Side neighborhoods that would be served, and he prefers an electric

streetcar line. The route would link the North Riverside Mall at

Harlem and Cermak to the Illinois Medical District, downtown and Navy

Pier through the Ogden Avenue and Carroll Avenue corridors. The

nine-month study, which will look at cost options for various modes

including bus rapid transit, is the first step in obtaining federal

funding from the FTA’s New Start program. “The Ogden Avenue project

could serve as a catalyst for further transit-oriented economic

revitalization of the communities through which it travels,” said

Chicago Transit Board Chairman Carole Brown. “This study will determine

the best way to meet the future transit needs of the communities in

these corridors.”

I read that, but again I still say you're missing the point that he wasn't saying create a route that mirrors the 66 east of Ogden simply for the sake of putting another route in the Navy Pier terminal. If you look closer at what he wrote, he made the point that though he doesn't think any bus route along that section of Odgen would be too successful, his thought of how another Ogden bus would work has the benefit of relieving some pressure off the 66 on its busiest portion as one hypothetical benefit. He also made mention of serving United Center as well as the Medical District without having to go through the heavier sections of downtown or through UIC. I'm just saying don't get so hung up on his idea ending at Navy Pier that you miss the larger point he was making since he didn't even argue that Navy Pier needed another bus route. Plus don't lose site that the thread is another forum member's exploration into the hypothetical and not an explicit call for CTA to do this.

[artthouwill]

Jajuan is correct concerning my previous posts.

[mkohut]

I read that, but again I still say you're missing the point that he wasn't saying create a route that mirrors the 66 east of Ogden simply for the sake of putting another route in the Navy Pier terminal. If you look closer at what he wrote, he made the point that though he doesn't think any bus route along that section of Odgen would be too successful, his thought of how another Ogden bus would work has the benefit of relieving some pressure off the 66 on its busiest portion as one hypothetical benefit. He also made mention of serving United Center as well as the Medical District without having to go through the heavier sections of downtown or through UIC. I'm just saying don't get so hung up on his idea ending at Navy Pier that you miss the larger point he was making since he didn't even argue that Navy Pier needed another bus route. Plus don't lose site that the thread is another forum member's exploration into the hypothetical and not an explicit call for CTA to do this.

With the United Center there is Route 19.The only thing is before there use to be Press Release when its running for a event.Now they don't.

I wanted to post the source where i got the information from.Needless to say its dead.

[ChicagoNova]

If you read the part by Art about a bus going from the Medical District to Navy Pier during rush.That would have to be a new Route.The only way i can see that happening is with a new start grant.I would have more faith in Pace doing it then the CTA.Which isn't going to to happen since the Route is in Chicago.

I remember Durbin prospose a Route that went from Harlem/Cernak to Navy Pier via Ogden.I would have to look when he did. in 2006

The Chicago Transit Board on July 14 approved a contract with Parsons

Transportation Group, Inc. to perform an alternatives analysis study for

the proposed Ogden Transitway Project. The proposal is being

driven by U.S. Rep. William Lipinski, who represents many of the West

Side neighborhoods that would be served, and he prefers an electric

streetcar line. The route would link the North Riverside Mall at

Harlem and Cermak to the Illinois Medical District, downtown and Navy

Pier through the Ogden Avenue and Carroll Avenue corridors. The

nine-month study, which will look at cost options for various modes

including bus rapid transit, is the first step in obtaining federal

funding from the FTA’s New Start program. “The Ogden Avenue project

could serve as a catalyst for further transit-oriented economic

revitalization of the communities through which it travels,” said

Chicago Transit Board Chairman Carole Brown. “This study will determine

the best way to meet the future transit needs of the communities in

these corridors.”

I had something almost like that on my mind. Actually via Cermak, Ogden, & Roosevelt to downtown.

[jajuan]

With the United Center there is Route 19.The only thing is before there use to be Press Release when its running for a event.Now they don't.

I wanted to post the source where i got the information from.Needless to say its dead.

I realize that. Why do you think I mentioned the implication in art's prior posts of getting to the United Center without heading through the main parts of downtown AND bypassing the heavier traffic of Michigan Avenue and along Madison?

[artthouwill]

Also remember the 19 no longer serves N Michigan Ave along the Mag Mile. It only operates between the UC and Michigan/Randolph.

[Busjack]

...

I remember Durbin prospose a Route that went from Harlem/Cernak to Navy Pier via Ogden.I would have to look when he did. in 2006

The Chicago Transit Board on July 14 approved a contract with Parsons

Transportation Group, Inc. to perform an alternatives analysis study for

the proposed Ogden Transitway Project. The proposal is being

driven by U.S. Rep. William Lipinski, who represents many of the West

Side neighborhoods that would be served, and he prefers an electric

streetcar line. ....

You should have read the excerpt you quoted.

It was Lipinsksi, not Durbin and it was to bring back the streetcar of his youth, since the tracks were supposedly still under the asphalt.

He might have come up with some study money, but this was again an example of CTA has to kiss is gluteal area if it expected to get any money for anything. Then Lipinski resigned and gave the seat to his son, who lives in Willow Springs, and couldn't care.

This one is really dead.

[jajuan]

Also remember the 19 no longer serves N Michigan Ave along the Mag Mile. It only operates between the UC and Michigan/Randolph.

Right. Apparently Bulls and Hawks fans either don't live north or will just ride whichever north express or local bus bus past the Mag Mile anyway to get to the 19 in CTA's estimation.

[Busjack]

Right. Apparently Bulls and Hawks fans either don't live north or will just ride whichever north express or local bus bus past the Mag Mile anyway to get to the 19 in CTA's estimation.

Which probably also gives rise to the question whether this is another of the contracted routes (like 128 turned out to be), and thus serves according to what Wirtz and Reinsdorf are willing to pay.

[mkohut]

You should have read the excerpt you quoted.

It was Lipinsksi, not Durbin and it was to bring back the streetcar of his youth, since the tracks were supposedly still under the asphalt.

He might have come up with some study money, but this was again an example of CTA has to kiss is gluteal area if it expected to get any money for anything. Then Lipinski resigned and gave the seat to his son, who lives in Willow Springs, and couldn't care.

This one is really dead.

I took the first article I saw on Google about it.If there was a grant for the study.I'm sure Durbin would take the credit.

[Busjack]

I took the first article I saw on Google about it.If there was a grant for the study.I'm sure Durbin would take the credit.

Not 7 years ago.

What you found is all there was.

[jajuan]

Which probably also gives rise to the question whether this is another of the contracted routes (like 128 turned out to be), and thus serves according to what Wirtz and Reinsdorf are willing to pay.

Good point Busjack since my thought behind that cutback was it sounded more like it too was a contract route and Wirtz and Reinsdorf didn't want to pay for the former Mag Mile leg of that route any longer since to me that stretch shouldn't necessarily have been hurting for passengers.

[artthouwill]

I don't know if this would work, but it crossed my mind while riding the 226 Oakton. The 85A mirrors most of the Central Ave portion of this route. What if the Oakton portion of the 226 were through routed with the Oakton portion of the 97 Skokie to Howard and the 85A were combined with the portion of the 97 along Niles Center serving Dempster station and the Old Orchard Shopping Center?

There is precedent in that the eastern portions of the 208 and 209 were swapped to create more direct routes. The southern portion of the 352 took the old 370 routing and the Homewood portion of the old 352 got a new route name and number (356). The CTA terminated all 91 trips (except for school trips) at Jefferson Pk and the portion north of there was incorporated into an extended 86.

The only reason I can think of that this would NOT be feasible is if the sole purpose of the 97 really is to be an alternative to the Yellow Line in the event of line closures or delays, but as in other parts of the city, bus shuttle service could be implemented if need be.

This could be tweaked a bit if the 85A ran the 225, and the 225 took the Central, Niles Ctr routing, leaving the 226 as an east-west Oakton route.

[jajuan]

I don't know if this would work, but it crossed my mind while riding the 226 Oakton. The 85A mirrors most of the Central Ave portion of this route. What if the Oakton portion of the 226 were through routed with the Oakton portion of the 97 Skokie to Howard and the 85A were combined with the portion of the 97 along Niles Center serving Dempster station and the Old Orchard Shopping Center?

There is precedent in that the eastern portions of the 208 and 209 were swapped to create more direct routes. The southern portion of the 352 took the old 370 routing and the Homewood portion of the old 352 got a new route name and number (356). The CTA terminated all 91 trips (except for school trips) at Jefferson Pk and the portion north of there was incorporated into an extended 86.

The only reason I can think of that this would NOT be feasible is if the sole purpose of the 97 really is to be an alternative to the Yellow Line in the event of line closures or delays, but as in other parts of the city, bus shuttle service could be implemented if need be.

This could be tweaked a bit if the 85A ran the 225, and the 225 took the Central, Niles Ctr routing, leaving the 226 as an east-west Oakton route.

Your point about the Yellow Line is what throws this off. It takes them forever to set up bus shuttles for the other rail lines when the service disruption is an unplanned one The current setup of the 97 provides them with an instantaneous bus replacement if something happens on the Yellow Line whether it's planned or unplanned. Plus looking at how the Edgebrook neighborhood is basically a suburb (which likes its cars over buses) inside city limits, will even Old Orchard be a big enough draw to pull those folks from their cars to the bus instead? 54A provides a through route to Old Orchard currently, but that still didn't stop 54A's ridership numbers from dropping over the years to the point that 54A is now rush hour only, with part of that still shaved down even further just a few months ago, and operated with Optimas.