7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[garmon757]

Shot of #7928, #7932, and DAMN #7955!!!! :D

[TripleTransit1]

Shot of #7928, #7932, and DAMN #7955!!!!

That's a little random for a #795x to be at the Shops already.

[garmon757]

That's a little random for a #795x to be at the Shops already.

Indeed but remember they're not arriving in numerical order. I wouldn't be surprised if an 8XXX arrive before the Winter picks.

[jajuan]

In which I understand but 74th only got back #1110-12 in which that's really F'd up! You have to understand that FG got it's 6800s Novas back respectively except #6876-83 (I don't know any god given reason why they still @ 74th) and some of the 1200s that FG had were technically 77th's (#1226-49) but the biggest problem is that the entire fleet is unbalanced (#1161-65 @ 74th before 77th, #1003-04 and #1335-47@ 77th, #1277-82 and #1590-96 @ Kedzie, #1266-71, #1301-34 and #1540-44 @ North Park, #1350 and #1414-29 @ Chicago despite they were part of the original #1330-#1429 format in 2006, and former Chicago's #1472-79 and 74th's #1526-39 @ 103rd. So every garage plays a factor. Not just 77th. Now I can see all garage rosters being straightened out when more 7900s be in service consistently but until then, we just have to sit back and let cta do what they have to do.

To which it could be responded numerical sequences being upheld isn't as important as making sure a garage is stocked with enough buses to keep service on its assigned routes running. If they stuck to keeping numerical sequences intact they wouldn't have gotten gotten NP and 103rd stocked fast enough to keep up with 5300s and 4400s falling apart at both garages (in NP's case 4400s).

1995: 65 New Flyer D40LF assigned to NP. Don't know about the 5300-Series Flxibles, but I think FG got some brand new. And 6750-6883 were assigned to FG brand new.

I can't really count artics as NP is a artic-heavy route and 75% of the time, gets new artics that are ordered.

FG did get 5300s brand new. Then it got almost all of Kedzie's 6000s just a couple of years after Kedzie got 6000s because of the preheater issue that required buses without them be left idling overnight with FG being an outside facility. And it also got 6400s brand new when Kedzie was left to deal with mostly soon to be retirement age 5300s and 4400s until Kedzie started getting 1000s in late 2006. Points I've made several times over and yet the thought that FG and by extension the northwest side has been getting the shaft for years still persists. Yeah they're getting the short end now having all retirement age buses, but there has been no pattern of FG always getting ignored for years.

On the 7900s front, it is interesting that 7955 is around when there aren't yet any 7930s or 7940s delivered as far as we know.

[garmon757]

To which it could be responded numerical sequences being upheld isn't as important as making sure a garage is stocked with enough buses to keep service on its assigned routes running. If they stuck to keeping numerical sequences intact they wouldn't have gotten gotten NP and 103rd stocked fast enough to keep up with 5300s and 4400s falling apart at both garages (in NP's case 4400s).

On the 7900s front, it is interesting that 7955 is around when there aren't yet any 7930s or 7940s delivered as far as we know.

Interesting information about the 4400s and 5300s thanks. Yeah I was ecstatic when I saw #7955.

[Busjack]

....

On the 7900s front, it is interesting that 7955 is around when there aren't yet any 7930s or 7940s delivered as far as we know.

I've got 50 entries of $244K initial payments in the Payments database, and thus there must be at least that many shells as of 30 days preceding July 17. Just proves that buses were never delivered in shell number order.

[garmon757]

I've got 50 entries of $244K initial payments in the Payments database, and thus there must be at least that many shells as of 30 days preceding July 17. Just proves that buses were never delivered in shell number order.

That's just proved that nobody on here should make any kind of false reports about them being delayed for any undisclosed reasons.

[jajuan]

I've got 50 entries of $244K initial payments in the Payments database, and thus there must be at least that many shells as of 30 days preceding July 17. Just proves that buses were never delivered in shell number order.

Actually I'm not surprised they're coming out of sequence given the 6400s initially came out of sequence (I remember mid 6500s that were eventually bound for Archer on the 29 in the earliest days of that model). When I said interesting, I was actually thinking of the talk that the 7900s are too slow in coming as far as additional units when Garmon's spotting 7955 suggests they may have put together at least 50 buses or at least in the process of getting there, which your finding 50 initial payments appears to back up.

[ajm522]

I don't understand why they just don't put stickers on the busses in numerical order, and shop them out. I know this happens with every delivery. It just makes no sense to me that they can't simply send them in order.

[garmon757]

I don't understand why they just don't put stickers on the busses in numerical order, and shop them out. I know this happens with every delivery. It just makes no sense to me that they can't simply send them in order.

That's because every single numerical production isn't perfect. Inspections are very important.

[BusHunter]

Shot of #7928, #7932, and DAMN #7955!!!!

that's cause all the buses are screwed up, I wouldn't doubt up to #7955 is built at the factory. You know back towards the tail end of the #6400's order cta was getting close to 10 buses a week. Wouldn't it be something if they actually got back on pace with where they should be #8033. Regardless though your pictures are very good news for the delivery hiatus. Bring on those new buses!!

[Busjack]

I don't understand why they just don't put stickers on the busses in numerical order, and shop them out. I know this happens with every delivery. It just makes no sense to me that they can't simply send them in order.

The explanation is that there has to be a VIN (vehicle identification number) plate on each body. The fleet number is based on that.

Websites used to put up the VIN lists, but seems to have died about 10 years ago.

[BusHunter]

That's just proved that nobody on here shouldn't make any kind of false reports about them being delayed for any undisclosed reasons.

oh there are problems but it will take time for it to surface. Nova bus is getting another bad rap in canada dealing with a bus recall. I have the press story link but didn't put it on here cause you guys are all pro nova. It in the pm's. If there are bad apples on the tree then what's the chances you'll get a bad apple? I can't blame cta for being so cautious. Well soon enough we'll find out if the story is full of hot air or not but with cta running them exclusively in the rush for 3-4 months tells you something is not kosher whether you believe everything is coming up roses or not.

[Busjack]

.... but with cta running them exclusively in the rush for 3-4 months tells you something is not kosher whether you believe everthing is coming up roses or not.

I'm sure that the first thing CTA wants is to have a bus break down in the middle or rush hour, especially on routes 1 and 2 with only a couple of buses on each.

Besides that, the ones delivered to Canada are not assembled in Plattsburgh.

Like everyone has said before, and despite what you said, you want them to be defective. So, stop playing cute and post verifiable sources, including a name behind them. Otherwise, give it up.

[garmon757]

oh there are problems but it will take time for it to surface. Nova bus is getting another bad rap in canada dealing with a bus recall. I have the press story link but didn't put it on here cause you guys are all pro nova. It in the pm's. If there are bad apples on the tree then what's the chances you'll get a bad apple? I can't blame cta for being so cautious. We'll soon enough we'll find out if the story is full of hot air or not but with cta running them exclusively in the rush for 3-4 months tells you something is not kosher whether you believe everthing is coming up roses or not.

But cta hasn't indicated any press releases about any discrepancies regarding our Novas. So I can't accept the news that you've stated about the company if it's not interfering the productions of our Novas.

[jajuan]

That's just proved that nobody on here shouldn't make any kind of false reports about them being delayed for any undisclosed reasons.

Agreed.

oh there are problems but it will take time for it to surface. Nova bus is getting another bad rap in canada dealing with a bus recall. I have the press story link but didn't put it on here cause you guys are all pro nova. It in the pm's. If there are bad apples on the tree then what's the chances you'll get a bad apple? I can't blame cta for being so cautious. We'll soon enough we'll find out if the story is full of hot air or not but with cta running them exclusively in the rush for 3-4 months tells you something is not kosher whether you believe everthing is coming up roses or not.

Or maybe just maybe that in light of the NABI debacle, CTA is flexing contractual muscle to get buses delivered the right way unlike how it handled the NABI procurement where NABI pretty much saw they were able to sell CTA a big lemon because CTA bosses showed themselves to be in such a desperate need for articulated buses that they ignored warning signs like the NABI artic not holding up and failing in the federally required Altoona tests and thus willing to basically accept anything. You don't have that same situation here. There are no mentions that the NOVA LF failed the Altoona tests, and it is obviously proven given CTA ordered them before and NOVA has sold them to other TAs for years both before and after the 6400s just as New Flyer has been selling its now discontinued LF for years to various other TAs. Whatever current snags NOVA may have run into elsewhere with other TAs, it still has an established history with the LF series which also gives CTA more room to flex muscle on its side of the deal to get good buses. Taking those things into consideration isn't being pro-NOVA that's just not feeding into muddying a legal business entity's reputation by simply latching on to believing unsubstantiated claims made and/or drawing unjustified conclusions because of a need to fill in one's own blanks about reasons for perceived delays in bus deliveries.

[Busjack]

But cta hasn't indicated any press releases about any discrepancies regarding our Novas. So I can't accept the news that you've stated about the company if it's not interfering the productions of our Novas.

I doubt that there would be press releases, but Hilkevitch would have found out by now. He did with respect to the NABIs and the Bombardiers.

As Kevin has said, all BusHunter has is unsubstantiated matter which Kevin once removed. As I implied above, if he has anything verifiable, post it, but obviously he doesn't.

I would be more concerned that again 74th is stuck with junk than for some reason 77th is only running them on rush hour. Also that his Honor, da Mare, pulled the bait and switch on 74th.

[jajuan]

I was just going to make the point that Kevin already scrubbed this thread once because the claims made against NOVA were unsubstantiated, but Busjack beat me to that point. But yes if there were some big conspiracy pointing to some big flaw with the 7900s, Hilkevitch or some other local reporter who cares about transit would have found it by now. So maybe the flaw theories should be left alone unless one wants Kevin to again lock this thread or worse in his capacity as site administrator.

[Guest]

Until we see what garages AFTER 77th get 7900s, you're still prematurely beating a dead horse into the ground.

No!, Im just stating facts, that's all!

[jajuan]

No!, Im just stating facts, that's all!

No that's your opinion based off one admittedly dumb move CTA made earlier this year. But bus assignments at FG since at least 1991 back up no actual facts that CTA has treated FG unfairly.

[BusHunter]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say well Bushunter can't talk about this and then all that happens is everyone else does. Busjack, Busjack, Busjack why would I have an agenda against Nova. Do people take pictures of buses of companies that they hate and put it on a fan website where you come from? I would think you are smarter than this. I'm just reporting and keeping an open mind. The people that say I'm wrong, where are all your facts saying I'm wrong? Then how can you say I don't have any facts when I just told you I have press that puts nova bus in a bad light. I even kept it off this site. (So far) I have reports from CTA managers saying I'm right but I'm not selling people out to please a few fans. If that's not enough for you tough!! That's life!!

[garmon757]

I doubt that there would be press releases, but Hilkevitch would have found out by now. He did with respect to the NABIs and the Bombardiers.

As Kevin has said, all BusHunter has is unsubstantiated matter which Kevin once removed. As I implied above, if he has anything verifiable, post it, but obviously he doesn't.

I would be more concerned that again 74th is stuck with junk than for some reason 77th is only running them on rush hour. Also that his Honor, da Mare, pulled the bait and switch on 74th.

Well said. It's fair to say that 74th is being the oddball with the older Novas.

[jajuan]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say well Bushunter can't talk about this and then all that happens is everyone else does. Busjack, Busjack, Busjack why would I have an agenda against Nova. Do people take pictures of buses of companies that they hate and put it on a fan website where you come from? I would think you are smarter than this. I'm just reporting and keeping an open mind. The people that say I'm wrong, where are all your facts saying I'm wrong? Then how can you say I don't have any facts when I just told you I have press that puts nova bus in a bad light. I even kept it off this site. (So far) I have reports from CTA managers saying I'm right but I'm not selling people out to please a few fans. If that's not enough for you tough!! That's life!!

Everyone's been talking about it again because you keep hinting at some unsubstantiated claim that Nova is trying to pull another NABI on CTA and when pressed on it you basically say 'Trust me I'm right but I'm not going to point to proof because I'm not going to sell out anyone to please a few bus fans.' That doesn't sound like any of us trying to have it both ways but the opposite. When it comes to this part of the discussion. I take my leave of it. The rest will be between you and Kevin about using his site to continue hinting at and alluding to unsubstantiated claims made against a legal business entity that you're unwilling to prove. If anyone wants to talk about further sightings or having gotten to ride one up this point I'm game.

[garmon757]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say well Bushunter can't talk about this and then all that happens is everyone else does. Busjack, Busjack, Busjack why would I have an agenda against Nova. Do people take pictures of buses of companies that they hate and put it on a fan website where you come from? I would think you are smarter than this. I'm just reporting and keeping an open mind. The people that say I'm wrong, where are all your facts saying I'm wrong? Then how can you say I don't have any facts when I just told you I have press that puts nova bus in a bad light. I even kept it off this site. (So far) I have reports from CTA managers saying I'm right but I'm not selling people out to please a few fans. If that's not enough for you tough!! That's life!!

Lord have mercy mate.... I don't recall myself witnessing you being so animated about anything. Look, as man to man, some of us including myself are getting very confused about your inputs on this topic in which it's getting beyond disconcerting with all do respect. All of us are going to be right or wrong about anything on here but you're taking it to another level leaving some of us probably saying "what the hell"..... Look on then bright side, we have 15 7900s sighted so far in which that's better than having none on this fleet. I told you yesterday that we have to sit back and let cta do what they have to do. You're a passionate person in which I respect that. You just hit a milestone man (500 reputation points congrats)!!!

[BusHunter]

Lord have mercy mate.... I don't recall myself witnessing you being so animated about anything. Look, as man to man, some of us including myself are getting very confused about your inputs on this topic in which it's getting beyond disconcerting with all do respect. All of us are going to be right or wrong about anything on here but you're taking it to another level leaving some of us probably saying "what the hell"..... Look on then bright side, we have 15 7900s sighted so far in which that's better than having none on this fleet. I told you yesterday that we have to sit back and let cta do what they have to do. You're a passionate person in which I respect that. You just hit a milestone man (500 reputation points congrats)!!!

And i agreed with you. No problem. It's plain to see here we don't see eye to eye on this so why talk about it any further. Just be happy the buses are coming in. Any problems with them will have to be dealt with later.

BTW, if anyone wants to read about the canadian failures just google the words "nova bus TTC recall" and you'll find a bunch of stories on differing subjects. (no need to post a link now, the stories broke across Canada) You can come up with your own summation but it sounds like the Canadians aren't happy.