Random Metra

[strictures]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

To me, the only in city development that might warrant a new Metra station is the Lincoln Yards development along the north branch of the Chicago River.  The UPN and UPW could build a station at the north end of the development while Clybourn is close enough to serve the south end.  This large mixed use, high density development could attract suburban workers that would have a viable option rather than driving and provide reverse commute options.  

 

Metra's plans for Lincoln Yards is to build a new station there & close Clybourn.  Once the new station is built, it's probable that the ancient & difficult to navigate Ashland viaduct & bridges will be rebuilt, to straighten out Ashland & raise the clearance, so it doesn't get hit by tall trucks anymore.  My only regret at that is that Clybourn is convenient to the Ashland & Armitage buses.

[artthouwill]

20 minutes ago, strictures said:

Metra's plans for Lincoln Yards is to build a new station there & close Clybourn.  Once the new station is built, it's probable that the ancient & difficult to navigate Ashland viaduct & bridges will be rebuilt, to straighten out Ashland & raise the clearance, so it doesn't get hit by tall trucks anymore.  My only regret at that is that Clybourn is convenient to the Ashland & Armitage buses.

Why would they close Clybourn as it's possible to transfer between UP North and Northwest Lines.  It sounds like you are referring to the North Line Clybourn station and it doesn't sound like you are saying a new station will be built along the Northwest Line.  I think an additional station along both lines in addition to Clybourn works well,  though I must admit navigating Ashland underneath those viaduct is an adventure.  I try to avoid it as much as possible. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

58 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Why would they close Clybourn as it's possible to transfer between UP North and Northwest Lines.  It sounds like you are referring to the North Line Clybourn station and it doesn't sound like you are saying a new station will be built along the Northwest Line.  I think an additional station along both lines in addition to Clybourn works well,  though I must admit navigating Ashland underneath those viaduct is an adventure.  I try to avoid it as much as possible. 

Clybourn having the ridership it does is honestly surprising to me. Barely any parking, walk-up ridership isn’t really encouraged b/c of its location and I can’t begin to speculate where transfers from the 9 and 73 come in, but it’s one of the busier stations in the system. I can’t imagine transfers btwn lines are all that common either

[strictures]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Why would they close Clybourn as it's possible to transfer between UP North and Northwest Lines.  It sounds like you are referring to the North Line Clybourn station and it doesn't sound like you are saying a new station will be built along the Northwest Line.  I think an additional station along both lines in addition to Clybourn works well,  though I must admit navigating Ashland underneath those viaduct is an adventure.  I try to avoid it as much as possible. 

The new Lincoln Yards station will be south of the current Clybourn station, so transfers between the two lines will still be possible.  The master plan for the development shows it relocated just south of Cortland Street, where the current stations in just north of Cortland.  And Cortland's original name was Clybourn, which is why the station has that name.

[strictures]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Clybourn having the ridership it does is honestly surprising to me. Barely any parking, walk-up ridership isn’t really encouraged b/c of its location and I can’t begin to speculate where transfers from the 9 and 73 come in, but it’s one of the busier stations in the system. I can’t imagine transfers btwn lines are all that common either

I saw plenty of people transfer prior to the pandemic, especially from UPN to UPNW in the morning & the reverse in the afternoon.

[Sam92]

9 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Clybourn having the ridership it does is honestly surprising to me. Barely any parking, walk-up ridership isn’t really encouraged b/c of its location and I can’t begin to speculate where transfers from the 9 and 73 come in, but it’s one of the busier stations in the system. I can’t imagine transfers btwn lines are all that common either

 

6 hours ago, strictures said:

I saw plenty of people transfer prior to the pandemic, especially from UPN to UPNW in the morning & the reverse in the afternoon.

Well I can’t imagine the benefits of transferring trains vs just getting on the train you’re supposed to at Ogilvie since they end up at the same place downtown but the reason we used to have a #33 bus which served that station and another one was to help people get seats on the metra. As far as WHY that station is surprisingly busy well, you basically have the Red Line to West loop subway that people here often discussed would help BUT it’s through metra and you don’t have any stops to deal with 

[artthouwill]

58 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

 

Well I can’t imagine the benefits of transferring trains vs just getting on the train you’re supposed to at Ogilvie since they end up at the same place downtown but the reason we used to have a #33 bus which served that station and another one was to help people get seats on the metra. As far as WHY that station is surprisingly busy well, you basically have the Red Line to West loop subway that people here often discussed would help BUT it’s through metra and you don’t have any stops to deal with 

The transfers aren't people coming from downtown  nit coming from the north.  Aldo, most of the people parking at Clybourn are traveling outbound in the a.m rush.   

Before it was cut, people used to ride the 33 Mag Mile Express from there.

 

[EdwardL803]

Does the Gladstone Park stop on the UP-NW line have the shortest platforms in the entire Metra network? I used Google Earth's measure tool and the measurement came out to be just over 200 feet.

What are some other Metra stops that have short platforms?

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

46 minutes ago, EdwardL803 said:

Does the Gladstone Park stop on the UP-NW line have the shortest platforms in the entire Metra network? I used Google Earth's measure tool and the measurement came out to be just over 200 feet.

What are some other Metra stops that have short platforms?

i think gladstone is the shortest 

[NewFlyerMCI]

16 minutes ago, EdwardL803 said:

Does the Gladstone Park stop on the UP-NW line have the shortest platforms in the entire Metra network? I used Google Earth's measure tool and the measurement came out to be just over 200 feet.

What are some other Metra stops that have short platforms?

Metra tends to run shorter commuter trains than a lot of other systems of comparable size, so they can get away with "shorter" platforms that are still adequate (ME SS is a prime example). I don't think any Metra platform is shorter than 200 ft, outside of maybe 18th & 27th

Assuming the average Metra train runs with a 6-car consist, that's a 510ft train, not counting the locomotive, making a "short" platform 255ft or less. Beverly branch probably doesn't qualify, and neither do the flag stops on the ME (outside of 63rd), along with 18th & 27th. Most of the station on the Blue Island branch probably don't meet this requirement either.

I do know that UPN, UPNW, MDW, MDN and BNSF platforms tend to be at least 350ft-400ft if not longer. I also believe all the HC platforms are longer than 350 ft (despite an entire HC consist including loco isn't even that long). So there might be some one offs, but probably not a lot of truly short stations out there. Most of them are probably located inside city limits, where there would be space constraints.

[EdwardL803]

5 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

i think gladstone is the shortest 

Thanks for the response. Do you by any chance know if the platform lengths for all of Metra's stations are listed anywhere?

[EdwardL803]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Metra tends to run shorter commuter trains than a lot of other systems of comparable size, so they can get away with "shorter" platforms that are still adequate (ME SS is a prime example). I don't think any Metra platform is shorter than 200 ft, outside of maybe 18th & 27th

Assuming the average Metra train runs with a 6-car consist, that's a 510ft train, not counting the locomotive, making a "short" platform 255ft or less. Beverly branch probably doesn't qualify, and neither do the flag stops on the ME (outside of 63rd), along with 18th & 27th. Most of the station on the Blue Island branch probably don't meet this requirement either.

I do know that UPN, UPNW, MDW, MDN and BNSF platforms tend to be at least 350ft-400ft if not longer. I also believe all the HC platforms are longer than 350 ft (despite an entire HC consist including loco isn't even that long). So there might be some one offs, but probably not a lot of truly short stations out there. Most of them are probably located inside city limits, where there would be space constraints.

I appreciate the informative response. Thank you!

Would the lengths of the station's platforms be shown on track diagrams? If so, are Metra's track diagrams accessible online?

[strictures]

8 hours ago, Sam92 said:

 

Well I can’t imagine the benefits of transferring trains vs just getting on the train you’re supposed to at Ogilvie since they end up at the same place downtown but the reason we used to have a #33 bus which served that station and another one was to help people get seats on the metra. As far as WHY that station is surprisingly busy well, you basically have the Red Line to West loop subway that people here often discussed would help BUT it’s through metra and you don’t have any stops to deal with 

It's an extra ten minutes to Downtown, so by transferring at Clybourn means you might make a train, that you would miss if you went all the way to Madison St. 

Clybourn is named for the for name of Cortland Street & then the city named the angle street Clybourn, making it confusing.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Metra tends to run shorter commuter trains than a lot of other systems of comparable size, so they can get away with "shorter" platforms that are still adequate (ME SS is a prime example). I don't think any Metra platform is shorter than 200 ft, outside of maybe 18th & 27th

Assuming the average Metra train runs with a 6-car consist, that's a 510ft train, not counting the locomotive, making a "short" platform 255ft or less. Beverly branch probably doesn't qualify, and neither do the flag stops on the ME (outside of 63rd), along with 18th & 27th. Most of the station on the Blue Island branch probably don't meet this requirement either.

I do know that UPN, UPNW, MDW, MDN and BNSF platforms tend to be at least 350ft-400ft if not longer. I also believe all the HC platforms are longer than 350 ft (despite an entire HC consist including loco isn't even that long). So there might be some one offs, but probably not a lot of truly short stations out there. Most of them are probably located inside city limits, where there would be space constraints.

It depends on the line.  While BNSF has some short stations like the zHighlands, Congress, there are some longer platforms like Downers Grove Main Street  and Rte 59.  I've been on 11 car trains ( not including loco) on this line (prepandemic).  

The electric lines are a different story.  57th and Kensington can berth 8 cars, which the NICTD (South Shore) runs.  Those are the single level cars.  The longer bilevels I've seen is 4 cars.  Most ME Zmainline stations berth six cars maximum.  South Chicago branch stations berth 4 cars maximum.  Most inner city mainline stations from 75th to 107th barely fit 3 car consists.  111th has a six car platform. But there's a barrier there that only permits 2 car boarding.  It will be interesting to see when Metra modifies 95th and 111th if they extend those platforms.

South Shore platforms at Hegewisvh, Hammond. EAST Chicago,  berth 8 car trains.  Points east to Michigan City berth 4 car trains with boarding and alighting limited to the 1st 4 cars from Gary Metro east.   It will be interesting to see how long the cars will be when the West Lake branch opens in a few years.   NICTD has leased about 20 ME cars to this point. 

 

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Metra tends to run shorter commuter trains than a lot of other systems of comparable size, so they can get away with "shorter" platforms that are still adequate (ME SS is a prime example). I don't think any Metra platform is shorter than 200 ft, outside of maybe 18th & 27th

Assuming the average Metra train runs with a 6-car consist, that's a 510ft train, not counting the locomotive, making a "short" platform 255ft or less. Beverly branch probably doesn't qualify, and neither do the flag stops on the ME (outside of 63rd), along with 18th & 27th. Most of the station on the Blue Island branch probably don't meet this requirement either.

I do know that UPN, UPNW, MDW, MDN and BNSF platforms tend to be at least 350ft-400ft if not longer. I also believe all the HC platforms are longer than 350 ft (despite an entire HC consist including loco isn't even that long). So there might be some one offs, but probably not a lot of truly short stations out there. Most of them are probably located inside city limits, where there would be space constraints.

The funny thing about UP-W Oak Park is that the outbound platform is longer than the inbound platform. 

[Sam92]

19 minutes ago, strictures said:

It's an extra ten minutes to Downtown, so by transferring at Clybourn means you might make a train, that you would miss if you went all the way to Madison St. 

Clybourn is named for the for name of Cortland Street & then the city named the angle street Clybourn, making it confusing.

Ok I’m slow so are these guys people that are coming from far out on the UPN or NW to clybourn then switching to the other train to go back outbound? Ok that makes better sense lmao. 

[strictures]

19 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Ok I’m slow so are these guys people that are coming from far out on the UPN or NW to clybourn then switching to the other train to go back outbound? Ok that makes better sense lmao. 

In fact, when the Northwestern ran the system, you rode free outbound to any Zone B station, as long as you paid for the ride inbound on a different line.

[Sam92]

4 hours ago, strictures said:

In fact, when the Northwestern ran the system, you rode free outbound to any Zone B station, as long as you paid for the ride inbound on a different line.

Ahh I see. I forgot about people doing crosstown or cross region transfers on metra lol but now that you mention it it makes sense. So the ridership there is reverse commuters to the northwest or north burbs? 

[Sam92]

5 hours ago, EdwardL803 said:

I appreciate the informative response. Thank you!

Would the lengths of the station's platforms be shown on track diagrams? If so, are Metra's track diagrams accessible online?

NYC subway or Chicago railfan (first link that pops up when you google it) should have it maybe. I’m more into inner city vs suburban transit so I’m not too sure outside of that

[Smolensk]

6 hours ago, strictures said:

In fact, when the Northwestern ran the system, you rode free outbound to any Zone B station, as long as you paid for the ride inbound on a different line.

When the C&NW ran the system, there weren't any zones.  The fares were based on the distance between the individual stations.  But there was a minimum fare to downtown and the fares to downtown were substantially higher than fares between any of the outlying stations.  So a lot of people got off at Clybourn to avoid the surcharge for going downtown.

I am attaching a copy of the  downtown fare chart for the North Line from 1968.  I realize that 70 cents sounds like a joke now, but it was expensive back then.  They didn't publicly distribute fare charts for trips between the other stations, but the minimum fare was (I think) 20 cents.

 

Hardly anyone knew this, but ticket agents could sell you through-tickets between two different lines.  And since the trips would not begin or end downtown, the downtown surcharge would not apply.  So, for example, a ticket from Ravenswood to downtown was 70 cents, but a ticket from Ravenswood to Jefferson Park was 35 cents.   This could be used much like the "hidden city" trick on airlines today.

I know with a monthly ticket on one line, you could ride out to a certain point on the other two lines.  I think the points were Main St, Jefferson Park, and Oak Park.  (Monthly tickets were available only between downtown and an outlying station, not between outlying stations.)  I don't think you could ride free on a one-way ticket, but why would you want to since a one-way ticket between the stations you wanted to travel to would be cheaper than a one-way ticket downtown?

 

[Sam92]

6 hours ago, Smolensk said:

When the C&NW ran the system, there weren't any zones.  The fares were based on the distance between the individual stations.  But there was a minimum fare to downtown and the fares to downtown were substantially higher than fares between any of the outlying stations.  So a lot of people got off at Clybourn to avoid the surcharge for going downtown.

I am attaching a copy of the  downtown fare chart for the North Line from 1968.  I realize that 70 cents sounds like a joke now, but it was expensive back then.  They didn't publicly distribute fare charts for trips between the other stations, but the minimum fare was (I think) 20 cents.

 

Hardly anyone knew this, but ticket agents could sell you through-tickets between two different lines.  And since the trips would not begin or end downtown, the downtown surcharge would not apply.  So, for example, a ticket from Ravenswood to downtown was 70 cents, but a ticket from Ravenswood to Jefferson Park was 35 cents.   This could be used much like the "hidden city" trick on airlines today.

I know with a monthly ticket on one line, you could ride out to a certain point on the other two lines.  I think the points were Main St, Jefferson Park, and Oak Park.  (Monthly tickets were available only between downtown and an outlying station, not between outlying stations.)  I don't think you could ride free on a one-way ticket, but why would you want to since a one-way ticket between the stations you wanted to travel to would be cheaper than a one-way ticket downtown?

 

So would you say stuff like this is a reason metra went to zone based fares? Seems like by establishing zones that took away that little exploitation. 

[Smolensk]

2 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

So would you say stuff like this is a reason metra went to zone based fares? Seems like by establishing zones that took away that little exploitation. 

No, I don't think so.  They didn't go to zone-based fares until after Metra took over pricing and equalized all the fares across all the Metra lines.  Metra also eliminated the downtown surcharge.  And they broadened the monthly ticket functionality.  On the C&NW, a monthly ticket to Kenosha, for example, was only good to Jefferson Park on the NW line, but on Metra, it's good for a similar distance (Chicago to Kenosha) on any Metra line.  I don't think the hidden city trick was a significant problem on the C&NW, as I said, nobody really knew about it.

My guess is that Metra's goal was just equalizing and simplifying the fare structure, but I have no inside information.

[NewFlyerMCI]

https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/facilities/shelters-stations-fixtures-parking-lighting/press-release/21246790/metra-metra-board-approves-13million-contract-for-147th-streetsibley-boulevard-station-rehab

147th is getting a makeover, and that station render looks nice. 6th busiest station on the ME outside of Hyde Park/Downtown, so long overdue

[NewFlyerMCI]

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/facilities/shelters-stations-fixtures-parking-lighting/press-release/21246790/metra-metra-board-approves-13million-contract-for-147th-streetsibley-boulevard-station-rehab

147th is getting a makeover, and that station render looks nice. 6th busiest station on the ME outside of Hyde Park/Downtown, so long overdue

Now that I'm realizing, Metra is undertaking a lot of projects at once. This makes the 4th station reconstruction (that I can think of) btwn this, Ravenswood, Grayland & Blue Island. Western Ave bridge just finished, and Grayland also includes a bridge component. Two new stations are actively getting built and I'm sure I'm missing other various projects.

[cityguy426]

Does something like this exist for Metra’s old schedules/timetables?

http://irm-cta.org/RouteMaps.html