4000-series DE60LF - Updates - Rehabs

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Instead of a mid life rehab, they really should be calling it a 3/4 life rehab.

The last Metra board video has all sorts of rehash over whehter something is rehab, reconstruction, remanufacturing, etc. (note that this is called "overhaul"), but the bottom line was that it didn't matter, so long as the average age of the fleet since the last one is brought down to some industry standard. Of course one can't rebuild a bus as often as a train car (unless it is 301 or the TTC in the late 90s), but the objective is to get these 208 buses down from 8 or 9 to 0.

12 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Maybe one day someone will decide to order electric buses and we'll actually see a bid for them!!  (Maybe they are waiting for them to go on sale) Hopefully Trump hasn't screwed up funding so bad they can't order them.

Last to first...despite sw, the only thing that has been mentioned has been law enforcement funds. I also mentioned that the same CMAQ money is being used to widen intersections and install new traffic lights on Dundee Road, as we speak, and CTA supposedly already had it to convert 33 4334s to hybrid. The only funding question is that since the CMAQ was to cover the difference between the cost of a diesel bus and an electric one (about $300K per bus), whether CTA ever had the money to kick in the $500K cost of a diesel bus into this project.

On the "go on sale," since there was the prior discussion that a Proterra bus is now about $750K, there might be something to that.

[BusHunter]

CTA may have showed some signs it was in a budget crunch with the incomplete replacement of the #6400s. They never have really had issues with capital funding but they have alot of big rail projects going. Something weird is going on with 18 year old buses and no viable  replacement at least for 2 years.

Btw i only mention the trump comment in terms of transit funding. We know he wont cut road projects too heavily or he might as well start packing 

[Busjack]

9 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Btw i only mention the trump comment in terms of transit funding. We know he wont cut road projects too heavily or he might as well start packing 

But Congress passed a budget for Apr.-Oct. 2017, based basically on the status quo, and as I mentioned, the CMAQ money was already there. If I were to pin it on anything, it is whether CTA was expecting state capital money, but I don't know what the status of those appropriations is,

[jajuan]

22 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Hmm.. I heard it had frame damage. I wonder, just because it says 208 means its 208 or is that a generic figure? How many was the #1000's contract for? #1482 had its own contract but maybe it did get something like lighting from the other. #1305 never was rehabbed and certain #800's got the updated lighting even though the lighting contract was enough for the #900's and all the #800s. 

As far as the project finally coming up for bid, it wull probably take at least 6 months to execute from now. The buses were from 2009. So that means they'll  be 9 yrs old at rehab. Kind of late but better late than never. I remember the #6000's were rehabbed so late not all of them were rehabbed before theyy were gone. I think it was 30 buses or something. I have a list probably under the 6000s liferume assignments if anyone's curious. Links on the cta roster.

Your math is a little off. If it does take six months to go through the bid process before rehabs start, it would still be the eight year mark if the buses were from 2009. Per Kevin's initial write up on them, deliveries started in October 2008. I think we were still less than halfway through deliveries of the original 150 when Huberman yanked the 7500s in April 2009, if memories of the big 40 foot bus shuffle indicates anything. So yes you are right a good number of the buses are from 2009, making this year the eight year mark. A good number of the 1000s didn't get a rehab until their seven and eight year mark especially when we remember that they were rehabbed out of sequence. Some in fact were rehabbed at their four to five year mark if we look at the fact that last delivered 1000s were from 2008-2009 taken against a 2013 and 2014 rehab date. Getting back on track though, the first modern day CTA buses to go through a major overhaul rehab, the 4400s, didn't start undergoing their rehabs until 2001-02, ten to eleven years into their service lives. So CTA wouldn't be too off track in kicking off the 4000s' rehab this year.

[BusHunter]

Yeah but thats not a mid life rehab.  cta likes to start rehabbing in the winter. They did it with the #5800's 6000s and 1000s i believe. Probably in Nov we'll be hearing something about it. 

[Busjack]

Mayor Emanuel is doing it personally, at 3 Illinois based locations.He says it starts later this year. And someone told Dorval Carter that they were 6 years old.

 

Update: Carter was the one who took the NABIs off the street, and said there were other accordion buses to take up the slack. In short, he knows better, even if the flack doesn't.

[BusHunter]

Interesting now they claim to only be purchasing up to 20 electric buses. 

For double jeopardy guess where the 6 percent of the not so new buses will be. 

[jajuan]

21 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah but thats not a mid life rehab.  cta likes to start rehabbing in the winter. They did it with the #5800's 6000s and 1000s i believe. Probably in Nov we'll be hearing something about it. 

That's semantics though at this point. The point is you posed the point that this might be similar with the 6000s in that they started late into service life also and all those didn't get rehabbed, and I'm pointing out to you that the 4400s rehab job was later into the service life than even the 6000s and all 4400s in service at the time got rehabbed.

[jajuan]

Chicago Trib article from yesterday confirming that $54 million was approved for the 4000-series rehab at the Wednesday CTA board meeting among other things. But the reporter is mistaken that the 4000s are seen regularly on the 36 and X49 when she listed examples of routes they can be seen. In an unrelated aside from this thread, the article says CTA decided to keep promoting the #11 extension even though we know it's a good possibility the extension could be declared a failure next month and eliminated.

[Busjack]

16 hours ago, jajuan said:

and I'm pointing out to you that the 4400s rehab job was later into the service life

That was called a "life extending rehab," and they said the 5300s didn't get one because they were being retired first, which they weren't. The ADA announcement system was subsequently installed on the 5300s.

13 hours ago, jajuan said:

But the reporter is mistaken that the 4000s are seen regularly on the 36 and X49 when she listed examples of routes they can be seen.

If you look, that was another inaccuracy lifted from the Press Release. The "reporter" didn't do any reporting in that regard. That Press Release was so inaccurate on the details that Mike Huckabee Jr. could have written it. I bet some flack from the Mayor's office rather than CTA.

Here's another one. Remember how @sw4400 made a big deal that the release for the 1000s said "gut rehab." Well, this one did too. However, it also said, inter alia, that they were replacing seat inserts. Nothing about the seat shells, for instance. And I wonder whether they are replacing them with padded or plastic ones.

.

[BusHunter]

10 hours ago, Busjack said:

That was called a "life extending rehab," and they said the 5300s didn't get one because they were being retired first, which they weren't. The ADA announcement system was subsequently installed on the 5300s.

If you look, that was another inaccuracy lifted from the Press Release. The "reporter" didn't do any reporting in that regard. That Press Release was so inaccurate on the details that Mike Huckabee Jr. could have written it. I bet some flack from the Mayor's office rather than CTA.

Here's another one. Remember how @sw4400 made a big deal that the release for the 1000s said "gut rehab." Well, this one did too. However, it also said, inter alia, that they were replacing seat inserts. Nothing about the seat shells, for instance. And I wonder whether they are replacing them with padded or plastic ones.

.

Then i probably can't rely on the "up to 20 electrics" statement either. Shame of it is with a few clicks of the mouse, you can find accurate info. It was kind of humorous reading about them still talking about buses from 2011 declared "new". 6 years is six years.

As far as the seat shells, I was noticing #8225 has a "C" sticker on it, so they must believe they are keeping them.

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, BusHunter said:

As far as the seat shells, I was noticing #8225 has a "C" sticker on it, so they must believe they are keeping them.

Aside from the "test" there was also the issue that they needed more 40 foot buses for #66.

[BusHunter]

According to the budget they want to order seat fabrics that are easy to clean. Whether that means blue plastic seats I dont know but if the #3200 rehabs are any indication it is indeed a toss up.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

According to the budget they want to order seat fabrics that are easy to clean. Whether that means blue plastic seats I dont know but if the #3200 rehabs are any indication it is indeed a toss up.

The only thing I found searching for "fabric" in the 2017 budget was:

Fleet Modernization – Bus & Rail Cars
CTA is modernizing its vehicle fleet by purchasing new and overhauling existing buses and rail cars. These investments will reduce vehicle fleet maintenance costs and improve the customer experience. As part of the modernization, fabric seat inserts will be replaced with new non-absorbent materials. (page 10; emphasis added)

So it looks like you came to the correct conclusion, although I am not sure by what means.

Getting back to @jajuan's point on that the overhauls of the 4400s were late, we also see in this budget (page 58):

In FY 2018-2021, funding is provided for... a life extending overhaul of up to 400 additional buses prior to their planned replacement in FY 2022. The actual number of buses to receive a life extending overhaul will be determined by the size of the first of two future bus orders anticipated to replace the 1000-Series buses.

In short, some 1000s will be treated in the same manner the 4400s were. Only difference is that the 4400s didn't get a midlife.

[BusHunter]

Im looking at the same item on pg 10 of the budget.  Now the 64,000 question is how the seat fabrics in the rehabbed 3200s are any different than the fabrics in current equipment. They are all supposed to be treated with scotchgard protection. 

[Busjack]

On 5/13/2017 at 11:34 AM, BusHunter said:

Im looking at the same item on pg 10 of the budget.  Now the 64,000 question is how the seat fabrics in the rehabbed 3200s are any different than the fabrics in current equipment. They are all supposed to be treated with scotchgard protection. 

Again raising the issue whether the new seat inserts will be any different, or some flack just picked up some boilerplate. Sort of like CTA still saying that new buses will be accessible and air conditioned, when all buses since 2000* (and now all buses in the fleet) are.

*1995 if you want to count high floors with lifts.

[Busjack]

Whereas, it is Cummins NPower.

[jajuan]

On 5/16/2017 at 11:49 AM, Busjack said:

Again raising the issue whether the new seat inserts will be any different, or some flack just picked up some boilerplate. Sort of like CTA still saying that new buses will be accessible and air conditioned, when all buses since 2000* (and now all buses in the fleet) are.

*1995 if you want to count high floors with lifts.

1991 if you count the Flx 5300s. They were air conditioned while as we know the TMC 4400s originally were not. Now the question is now that the Board has recommended the contract go to Cummins NPower how soon the rehabs might start up. 

[Busjack]

38 minutes ago, jajuan said:

1991 if you count the Flx 5300s. They were air conditioned while as we know the TMC 4400s originally were not. Now the question is now that the Board has recommended the contract go to Cummins NPower how soon the rehabs might start up. 

Probably not that long, since the formalities seem completed, and Cummins is promoting overhaul kits (indicating that existing engines will be overhauled, as opposed to Pace swapping engines and transmissions with rebuilt ones).

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Probably not that long, since the formalities seem completed, and Cummins is promoting overhaul kits (indicating that existing engines will be overhauled, as opposed to Pace swapping engines and transmissions with rebuilt ones).

Well the recent winter pick consolidation of artic assignments from four garages down to three with the remaining three garages having more artics than they may actually need should help minimize loss of coverage on artic routes for those who get upset about a few extra 1000s on a service day of the #6 or #147.

[garmon757]

Wanted to give you all heads up that #4095 and #4102 JUMP wraps were stripped. That may indicate that the rehabilitation will be underway soon. 

[Master58]

7 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Wanted to give you all heads up that #4095 and #4102 JUMP wraps were stripped. That may indicate that the rehabilitation will be underway soon. 

Also #4097 is unwrapped as well 

[jajuan]

On 6/9/2017 at 9:42 AM, garmon757 said:

Wanted to give you all heads up that #4095 and #4102 JUMP wraps were stripped. That may indicate that the rehabilitation will be underway soon. 

In addition to those observations, 40 foot buses have creeped back out a bit more on 6, J14, and 26. Makes one wonder if the rehabbing may start with 103rd assigned artics. Though other overall other rehabs were done in no specific garage order. 

[garmon757]

On 6/13/2017 at 6:39 PM, jajuan said:

In addition to those observations, 40 foot buses have creeped back out a bit more on 6, J14, and 26. Makes one wonder if the rehabbing may start with 103rd assigned artics. Though other overall other rehabs were done in no specific garage order. 

That's a fair observation but I only spotted one on J14 so far this week. 

[jajuan]

5 hours ago, garmon757 said:

That's a fair observation but I only spotted one on J14 so far this week. 

Which is more than what's been seen since Chicago Garage got rid of artics in the last winter pick service adjustment. Usually you don't really see any. Though my observations applies more to the 6 and 26. On a couple days recently I've a couple more than the typical stray one or two 40 footers we may see in a weekday rush period. Plus a few Saturdays and Sundays, the 6 had a few 40 footers when weekends the 6 typically has all artics in place.