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garmon757

4000-series DE60LF - Updates - Rehabs

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So on a chance occurrence today I come across this bus #4149 on the #135. I board it and notice damn, this bus has the same ad racks as the Xcelsior #700's, the deep gray ones with the contour vents. Then I notice damn, this bus has all new contour LED white lighting just like the #4300's. I had to do a double take and say am I crazy or am I on a #4300? But no I'm on #4149. Then i'm thinking what a minute, could this possibly be the start of the rehabs? I thought those don't start yet for awhile? So I took some shots and the exterior has the new kneeling stickers on it, but the plate on the rear is still old. The seats some of them looked to be not replaced. So was I on a rehabbed bus or not?

Here the shots...

56a057479ca0d_cta4149rehabinterior1.thum

(I don't know what it is but when I see this Stan got shafted ad, it makes me think of Garmon!! :P)

You can see though the ad racks have the contour like the #700's and they are deep gray. #4300's have light gray ad racks like most CTA buses. This makes me wonder if NF has a rehab bus retrofit kit (add ons) that a TA can put on in the style of an Xcelsior, the current design at NF.

56a057507ceb3_cta4149rehabinterior2.thum

56a0576166328_cta4149rehabinterior.thumb

56a0575aa6cd8_cta4149exteriorrehab.thumb

You can see the new kneeling sticker here.

 

 

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6 hours ago, BusHunter said:

So on a chance occurrence today I come across this bus #4149 on the #135. I board it and notice damn, this bus has the same ad racks as the Xcelsior #700's, the deep gray ones with the contour vents. Then I notice damn, this bus has all new contour LED white lighting just like the #4300's. I had to do a double take and say am I crazy or am I on a #4300? But no I'm on #4149. Then i'm thinking what a minute, could this possibly be the start of the rehabs? I thought those don't start yet for awhile? So I took some shots and the exterior has the new kneeling stickers on it, but the plate on the rear is still old. The seats some of them looked to be not replaced. So was I on a rehabbed bus or not?

Here the shots...

56a057479ca0d_cta4149rehabinterior1.thum

(I don't know what it is but when I see this Stan got shafted ad, it makes me think of Garmon!! :P)

You can see though the ad racks have the contour like the #700's and they are deep gray. #4300's have light gray ad racks like most CTA buses. This makes me wonder if NF has a rehab bus retrofit kit (add ons) that a TA can put on in the style of an Xcelsior, the current design at NF.

56a057507ceb3_cta4149rehabinterior2.thum

56a0576166328_cta4149rehabinterior.thumb

56a0575aa6cd8_cta4149exteriorrehab.thumb

You can see the new kneeling sticker here.

 

 

LED Lighting and kneeling stickers don't make it a rehab. Besides that, CTA would put out a press release regarding the contract for the rehab of 208 New Flyer DE60LF Buses(or New Flyer Accordion-style Hybrid buses, as they would probably word the press release) for $X.X Million. The rehab will include new LED lighting, rehabbed/rebuilt HybriDrive Technology and low emission Cummins Engine. They might've just ordered some extra LED lights and kneeling stickers and replaced the lighting and stickers on the DE60LF's, which is a simple job South Shops could do on them. A rehab might be in the works down the road in the next few years(the buses are currently 7-8 years old) unless the CTA plans on replacing them after their 12th year of service life. A lot more has to be rehabbed on artics.... an additional axle, the hubner joint and the entire articulated section. A rehab may cost more than a new fleet in this case.

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You don't know if the mechanical side of this was done on this bus unless you climb into a pit and look at it. I'll say this the ride was smooth and the exhaust wasn't smoking.  The bus has all new ad racks too. This might be a prototype or pilot to what they want to do for the #4000 rehabs, like #1005 was done months ahead of the actual rehab. It makes sense before they order hundreds of kits they need to see how it will function. It seems to be passing the test to me.

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54 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

You don't know if the mechanical side of this was done on this bus unless you climb into a pit and look at it. I'll say this the ride was smooth and the exhaust wasn't smoking.  The bus has all new ad racks too. This might be a prototype or pilot to what they want to do for the #4000 rehabs, like #1005 was done months ahead of the actual rehab. It makes sense before they order hundreds of kits they need to see how it will function. It seems to be passing the test to me.

Nope. 4149 actually came with those lights. Its been discussed in other forums related to this series

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2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Nope. 4149 actually came with those lights. Its been discussed in other forums related to this series

Yeah I know it has some anomoly, because I remember mentioning it myself. But we're talking about bus technology that didn't exist yet at the time of #4149's delivery. The #4300's had yet to exist and the Xcelsiors were brand new technology. Would they put this technology in an old bus design? This bus has stuff on it the #4300's don't even have. The lights and ad racks are what you would expect to see in an Xcelsior artic.

Do you have a link Sam?

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42 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah I know it has some anomoly, because I remember mentioning it myself. But we're talking about bus technology that didn't exist yet at the time of #4149's delivery. The #4300's had yet to exist and the Xcelsiors were brand new technology. Would they put this technology in an old bus design? This bus has stuff on it the #4300's don't even have. The lights and ad racks are what you would expect to see in an Xcelsior artic.

Do you have a link Sam?

Um.... I'll have to do a lot of searching around. I'd like to say it's In a thread in which we were tracking the first set or maybe in the thread about the stimulus artics. people were wondering if 4149 was some type of prototype around that time because it was held in for so long. But now that I think of it, 4149 wasn't the only bus to have those lights cause before the 1000's got rehabbed, 1272, 1275 and 1276 also had them along with 1283 coming In with the stimulus artic LED's in which I personally started a thread pointing that out

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1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

These are the flush type lights like on the #4300's and #700's not thesame type used on the #1000's. No #1000's have these light covers.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I've actually seen the bus in person. But also before the 1000's got rehabbed, 1275, 1272, and 1276 had the same interior light set up. So maybe these were experiments but anyways when I get off work I'll find the discussions

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#1272 might have had these, I think though they were removed at the #1000's rehab, but the other ones were just the standard LED lighting they have on the #1000's. These covers are streamlined, you can't really see the gaps in the covers.

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1 hour ago, andrethebusman said:

Two years ago there was an artic at 103rd with new Clever Device, a mid-bus screen with "next stop", and other oddities. Maybe this was it? If so, it has been like this a long time.

Aren't you talking about the Jump buses. Some of them have the overhead display, I've never really seen one working, but I'm only on the #J14 when I'm bus hunting it, as it's not a route I use. But yes some #4000 artics have updated clever devices, Probably more like most now. I remember seeing one on the #4170's last year.

I believe Sam is partially correct in his assertions, because I remember something about this bus having the LED interior lights, but I think something has changed with it, because these are what I call the second generation LED light covers because they don't have the lines on the covers, nor do they protrude out, like the #1800's. You really have to take a trip on this bus or look at it at the garage to see it to fully understand what I'm saying.

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21 hours ago, BusHunter said:
On 1/22/2016 at 7:08 PM, BusHunter said:

#1272 might have had these, I think though they were removed at the #1000's rehab, but the other ones were just the standard LED lighting they have on the #1000's. These covers are streamlined, you can't really see the gaps in the covers.

 

1272, 1275 and 1276 all had them. 1283 was the one with the protruding LED's but had a clear cover giving an appearance similar to the stimulus artics who also have the same set up. I remember perfectly cause those all are or were buses from either 77th or 103rd at one point and I in the area where their territories kinda overlap (around 95th/Cottage)

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It is due to the Pride Parade. There are 60-foot buses currently running on routes that almost never get them otherwise. Look at routes #72 and #74. Some of the buses are from Chicago garage, but Kedzie is figuring prominently.

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25 minutes ago, pudgym29 said:

It is due to the Pride Parade. There are 60-foot buses currently running on routes that almost never get them otherwise. Look at routes #72 and #74. Some of the buses are from Chicago garage, but Kedzie is figuring prominently.

Yeah maths tracker says they are all from Chicago garage, but we know that ain't right. #4205 from chicago?, #4017 from Chicago? Yeah right.

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2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah maths tracker says they are all from Chicago garage, but we know that ain't right. #4205 from chicago?, #4017 from Chicago? Yeah right.

I think his tracker is reflecting that Kedzie loaned those artics to run on 72 and 74 today since obviously 72 and 74 are Chicago Garage based routes. His tracker if I'm not mistaken uses in part operator login info, in an indirect way of course, to help determine the garage a bus got deployed from, i.e. that supervisor level version of the tracker that CTA typically blocks from regular eyes like ours. If a bus was loaned it's still going to reflect, as part of its radio signal, that it was logged on by an operator from the garage it got loaned to. Since the Pride Parade always occurs on a Sunday, Kedzie had the artics to spare to help prop up Chicago's artics in running these routes today. We'll see them back on Kedzie routes tomorrow in time for the morning rush. 

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Really it seems to make no sense. Chicago should have plenty of artics for this. The kedzie buses should be just extras. Just like on the #152 when there's a cubs game #4352 is not going to say it's from fg. Why not just run both extras and regular runs? First time I've ever seen extras run as block runs.

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2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Really it seems to make no sense. Chicago should have plenty of artics for this. The kedzie buses should be just extras. Just like on the #152 when there's a cubs game #4352 is not going to say it's from fg. Why not just run both extras and regular runs? First time I've ever seen extras run as block runs.

BH Chicago barely has 40 artics, and apparently CTA wanted 72 and 74 to run all day with nearly total artic coverage, with this being a busy event day, and not simply with buses that ran as extras. The Pride Parade and connected events weren't the only thing happening today. So taking out what they were going to need to run the 66 and considering they likely still wanted a spare ration in there, Chicago needed the extra artics especially if you also factor in that a few of its own may also have been down for maintenance. 

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1 hour ago, jajuan said:

BH Chicago barely has 40 artics, and apparently CTA wanted 72 and 74 to run all day with nearly total artic coverage, with this being a busy event day, and not simply with buses that ran as extras. The Pride Parade and connected events weren't the only thing happening today. So taking out what they were going to need to run the 66 and considering they likely still wanted a spare ration in there, Chicago needed the extra artics especially if you also factor in that a few of its own may also have been down for maintenance. 

Yeah but the #66 don't need 40 artics. So where are they all at? i could understand if this was a weekday but it's Sunday, the lightest day of service. What does Chicago do on a weekday when it really needs some artics?

Kind of interesting to note; the Pride Parade runs from Montrose to Diversey if you follow the map on CTA's site

http://www.transitchicago.com/prideparade/

So why does it need artics on the #74 and #72? People are going to walk 12 blocks just to ride the #72? I'd like to know what crystal ball tells them the pride parade crowd will go down there. Boystown is on Halsted, Belmont to north of Addison, so those hanging around and having a beer or whatever will be on the #77 or #152. Then also it would have to be a given, that all parade revelers would walk with the parade to it's terminus at Diversey.

Interesting how this was decided. i can't remember if I complained in recent years about bad service on the #77 or #152 on previous pride parades or not. i know the #152 gets absolutely killed for St Pat's day.

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12 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah but the #66 don't need 40 artics. So where are they all at? i could understand if this was a weekday but it's Sunday, the lightest day of service. What does Chicago do on a weekday when it really needs some artics?

Kind of interesting to note; the Pride Parade runs from Montrose to Diversey if you follow the map on CTA's site

http://www.transitchicago.com/prideparade/

So why does it need artics on the #74 and #72? People are going to walk 12 blocks just to ride the #72? I'd like to know what crystal ball tells them the pride parade crowd will go down there. Boystown is on Halsted, Belmont to north of Addison, so those hanging around and having a beer or whatever will be on the #77 or #152. Then also it would have to be a given, that all parade revelers would walk with the parade to it's terminus at Diversey.

Interesting how this was decided. i can't remember if I complained in recent years about bad service on the #77 or #152 on previous pride parades or not. i know the #152 gets absolutely killed for St Pat's day.

Come on now BH. Their crystal ball is ridership counts and reports from past Pride Days, so it's easy to see that the thinking was they would have big crowds coming from the west and transferring to the Red Line, which also got beefed up service, and ride north to the parade, preferably getting off at any stop near the parade route other than Belmont, which they noted has historically been the busiest stop on the day of the parade. They wouldn't have been able to get the 77 as easily because that was going only as far as Racine for most of the day. Believe it or not, most Pride parade attendees come from the west and south because so many attendees are from out of town and here visiting family and/or friends who attend. So CTA learned that pattern over previous years and deployed their artics accordingly. That's also the same reason they added extra trains on the Blue and Orange Lines operated with longer trains and had extra service added though neither of those go anywhere near Boystown (of course the Orange Line was also operated as a single route with the Brown Line because of the construction for the Washington/Wabash station, but looking at past years' train deployments the Orange Line still would have gotten beefed up even if the construction wasn't happening).

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55 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Come on now BH. Their crystal ball is ridership counts and reports from past Pride Days, so it's easy to see that the thinking was they would have big crowds coming from the west and transferring to the Red Line, which also got beefed up service, and ride north to the parade, preferably getting off at any stop near the parade route other than Belmont, which they noted has historically been the busiest stop on the day of the parade. They wouldn't have been able to get the 77 as easily because that was going only as far as Racine for most of the day. Believe it or not, most Pride parade attendees come from the west and south because so many attendees are from out of town and here visiting family and/or friends who attend. So CTA learned that pattern over previous years and deployed their artics accordingly. That's also the same reason they added extra trains on the Blue and Orange Lines operated with longer trains and had extra service added though neither of those go anywhere near Boystown (of course the Orange Line was also operated as a single route with the Brown Line because of the construction for the Washington/Wabash station, but looking at past years' train deployments the Orange Line still would have gotten beefed up even if the construction wasn't happening).

Strange though the start was from Montrose even further away. i would understand if it said in the press release the best way to get there would be on the #72 or #74. I don't intend on starting a war on this, just a friendly debate. If indeed most attendees come from the south, which makes sense in that 3/4 of the population is south of there, they would ride the red line. i doubt they would want to be stuck on a bus unless they really had no choice.

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8 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Strange though the start was from Montrose even further away. i would understand if it said in the press release the best way to get there would be on the #72 or #74. I don't intend on starting a war on this, just a friendly debate. If indeed most attendees come from the south, which makes sense in that 3/4 of the population is south of there, they would ride the red line. i doubt they would want to be stuck on a bus unless they really had no choice.

Nah I didn't take it as a war. So no worries on that. If I'm not mistaken, the current route was created for safety, crowd control and other logistical purposes, which I believe the mayor and Ald. Tunney said included faster and easier street cleanup because of quicker crowd dispersal. The original route used to be a start at Belmont, north on Halsted up to Broadway, south on Broadway down to Diversey finishing up east on Diversey at the Cannon Drive dispersal point. 

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50 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Nah I didn't take it as a war. So no worries on that. If I'm not mistaken, the current route was created for safety, crowd control and other logistical purposes, which I believe the mayor and Ald. Tunney said included faster and easier street cleanup because of quicker crowd dispersal. The original route used to be a start at Belmont, north on Halsted up to Broadway, south on Broadway down to Diversey finishing up east on Diversey at the Cannon Drive dispersal point. 

Maybe the thinking is that with all the routes cut off from Diversey north, only from Fullerton south goes through.(if you call webster/lincoln going through) and hence why it was ran with artics. What may have been interesting now is possibly running the #76 or even the #77 and terminating at Webster/Stockton right in the front of the zoo. Since the schedule is cut off anyway at Racine possibly minimal time would be lost if any. One sneaky reroute would be to take Lincoln to Armitage on over to Lincoln park west via Clark circling via stockton, webster and the next block south, what is that Dickens? They could run express through the reroute only stopping at the "L" or Halsted. What did they do with the #74, they couldn't have had hoardes of people walking to Webster/Lincoln?

 

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40 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Maybe the thinking is that with all the routes cut off from Diversey north, only from Fullerton south goes through.(if you call webster/lincoln going through) and hence why it was ran with artics. What may have been interesting now is possibly running the #76 or even the #77 and terminating at Webster/Stockton right in the front of the zoo. Since the schedule is cut off anyway at Racine possibly minimal time would be lost if any. One sneaky reroute would be to take Lincoln to Armitage on over to Lincoln park west via Clark circling via stockton, webster and the next block south, what is that Dickens? They could run express through the reroute only stopping at the "L" or Halsted. What did they do with the #74, they couldn't have had hoardes of people walking to Webster/Lincoln?

 

I think the #74 covered its full route. But don't forget though that the thinking also was that folks would transfer to the Red Line and ride to the less crowded stops near the parade route, which CTA says tends to be those north of Belmont: Addison, Sheridan and Wilson. So basically the north end of Boystown and the heart of Uptown. From past experiences of riding the Red Line on Pride Day, there aren't many folks walking from Fullerton. They're hopping on the train. Brown Line gets swamped also. 

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As a note - 4167 (from Michigan/Lake wreck) is gone from maintnance's computers. I suspect this will be laid up as 'evidence" for so long that CTA has given up on it, like the dead 6000's that sat at SS until they rotted.

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