Return of the X, Rapid, BRT-Lite, Limited Stop Routes (was X9, X49) Thread

[Busjack]

If this is true why then send the #48 to 87th/Damen? I can only think that there's still considerable shopping there in the version of big box retailers, Wal-mart, Sams Club and Meijer, but where would it's terminal be or how will it turn around? 

I don't follow what you are saying. The Alert says that the48  bus is cut back to 87th and Damen, which was its terminal before the extension to The Plaza. It isn't going to the Walmart in Evergreen Park.

Now, why 95W is going to 87th and Damen has been debated before (and, even more nonsensically, why via 83rd instead of 87th).

But the only point relevant to this topic is whether the forthcoming version of X49 is going to 79th or 95th. As I said before, the references to TSP in the Press Release support 79th, while you found something different on Facebook. Maybe you are saying that X49 should serve Walmart, but Daley was railing against sending sales tax money over the border. I don't think Rahm wants to do that, either. And, if CTA was that interested in serving that Walmart, it would not have cut 49A.

[jajuan]

I've read through this thread and a few things came to mind. First, they shouldn't need any extra buses to do this because what buses were used on the original X9 and X49 were put back toward the locals. So to keep this budget neutral they'd likely opt to go back with the prior set up of trimming the schedules of the locals to coordinate and accommodate the express buses. Next that would suggest 74th handles the restored Ashland Express and most if not all of the Western Express with NP doing any express runs on Western in some proportion to the current share of the 49. On the artic tip, I know many are seeing this as some quick opportunity to have artics on Ashland and Western, but if CTA were serious about finding a way to do so, they would have already done so with the current local service in terms of Ashland and kept what rush hour artics on Western that NP was providing early on in the De-Crowd implementation in place. And lastly, the current analysis by the SunTimes found by Busjack about the Ashland BRT being dead with the restoration of the X9, albeit as rush hour only service, is the first thing that popped to mind when I heard about this.

[Busjack]

....On the artic tip, I know many are seeing this as some quick opportunity to have artics on Ashland and Western, but if CTA were serious about finding a way to do so, they would have already done so with the current local service in terms of Ashland and kept what rush hour artics on Western that NP was providing early on in the De-Crowd implementation in place. ...

Basically, you are correct that if freeing up the 4300s after the Dan Ryan closure would have been sufficient to assign some to Ashland and Western (other than the occasional NP trip on Western), it would have happened already.

If someone is counting on the CTA awarding the back half of the 2012 procurement for the 50-150 artics, that seems out the window, based on lack of budget in the 5 year capital plan, no where to store them (haven't heard anything about Fisk lately), and doubt on how long bidders are bound by their proposals if CTA hasn't acted on them in 3 years. Obviously, that solicitation was based on having the Ashland BRT under construction by now.

[orionbuslover]

I really can't wait to see the schedule for the X9 and X49. If the routes are touted as time savers, then CTA and the Mayor are being dishonest because it's no secret internally that the local routes need more running time. With these express routes running in the peaks only, they'll be stuck in the worst of the worst congestion, with less stops there'll most likely be 10 mins time savings one way best case scenario.

[Busjack]

I really can't wait to see the schedule for the X9 and X49. If the routes are touted as time savers, then CTA and the Mayor are being dishonest because it's no secret internally that the local routes need more running time. With these express routes running in the peaks only, they'll be stuck in the worst of the worst congestion, with less stops there'll most likely be 10 mins time savings one way best case scenario.

If you want any frame of reference, look at the archived schedules on page 1 of this topic, and then consider it might be a bit better if they have traffic signal priority installed.

[jajuan]

I really can't wait to see the schedule for the X9 and X49. If the routes are touted as time savers, then CTA and the Mayor are being dishonest because it's no secret internally that the local routes need more running time. With these express routes running in the peaks only, they'll be stuck in the worst of the worst congestion, with less stops there'll most likely be 10 mins time savings one way best case scenario.

As one of those who rides the local #9 quite regularly during rush hour now and has ridden the X9 and X49 rush hour in the past, I can say you're jumping the gun on conclusions about dishonesty about X9 and X49 being time savers. They definitely were time savers during rush hour times, and traffic patterns on both corridors were similar five years ago when they got cut to what they are today, outside of different construction projects that have occurred along the way since then. On Ashland, I can tell you that while congestion does slow the local buses down at certain pockets, the bigger issue slowing buses down even more than traffic is buses stopping at just about every single block during rush hour. Folks have taken it as a given that Ashland and Western have traffic congestion. In fact, folks I know who live or work on or near both joke that both are in constant rush hour from dawn to mid evening. Operators though get buses through the congestion that's there fairly well because they know what to expect traffic-wise. What's killing speed on those routes is the stopping every single block and the routes being so long that that dwell time from all that stopping accumulates into larger delays that are harder to make up along the way. Ridership patterns on these two routes gives you no definite busiest portions that can be solved with short turning like what developed with some other routes. So going back to some of the buses being express and only stopping every half mile as opposed to the current all of them stopping every standard city block will do a lot towards alleviating the slow drag we got now. If CTA and the Mayor were being dishonest about these two routes (and the other X routes for that matter), you wouldn't have had restoring them and the other eliminated X routes at the top of various wishlists of currently eliminated services that got cut during the previous five years. You wouldn't have so many out there saying it's about time CTA came to its senses in bringing these two routes back in what can be looked at as a compromise form. You wouldn't have so many who are cognizant of how the pick system works currently saying why didn't the Mayor and CTA put their heads together sooner on this so that the routes could have been restored at the start of the current fall pick instead of the yet to be announced "later in the fall" announcement that they did give. 

[Busjack]

... currently saying why didn't the Mayor and CTA put their heads together sooner on this so that the routes could have been restored at the start of the current fall pick instead of the yet to be announced "later in the fall" announcement that they did give. 

The answer seems to be that the Mayor couldn't figure out before that, as Pace did, how to get the RTA traffic signal priority money.

[TaylorTank1229]

Anyone got any tips or info on when the X9 and X49 is suppose to be put back in service?

[jajuan]

Anyone got any tips or info on when the X9 and X49 is suppose to be put back in service?

The only thing CTA has told the public so far is "later this fall".

[Tcmetro]

Tribune is saying the X9 and X49 will start in December and will be rush hour only services.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-cta-2016-budget-met-1022-20151022-story.html

[jajuan]

Tribune is saying the X9 and X49 will start in December and will be rush hour only services.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-cta-2016-budget-met-1022-20151022-story.html

We knew about the rush only scheduling. The new bit of info is that the services start in December. They'd previously only given us that they were coming "later this fall". The December announcement sounds like they may be timing them with the start of the winter pick, which presumably is Sunday December 20th, a date that is technically still fall calendar wise given winter starts that following Tuesday on the 22nd.

[Tcmetro]

CTA posted a project webpage for the X9 and X49 this week. X9 runs from Sheridan Red Line to 95th and X49 runs from Berwyn to 79th. 15-min service, peak only. CTA is also conducting aggressive stop eliminations on the local routes, to 1/4-1/6 mile instead of the current 1/8 mile spacing. Because of this, the express routes won't be significantly quicker than the locals.

Further speed improvements will happen when TSP is implemented and more stops are moved to the farside of the intersection.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/planning/AshlandWesternBusImprovements2015.pdf

http://www.transitchicago.com/ashlandwesternx/

Edited November 5, 2015 by Tcmetro

[Busjack]

CTA posted a project webpage for the X9 and X49 this week. X9 runs from Sheridan Red Line to 95th and X49 runs from Berwyn to 79th. 15-min service, peak only. CTA is also conducting aggressive stop eliminations on the local routes, to 1/4-1/6 mile instead of the current 1/8 mile spacing. Because of this, the express routes won't be significantly quicker than the locals.

Further speed improvements will happen when TSP is implemented and more stops are moved to the farside of the intersection.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/planning/AshlandWesternBusImprovements2015.pdf

http://www.transitchicago.com/ashlandwesternx/

Thanks. Although I saw peak only, I did not see the source of your 15 min service interval (does not come up with a Control-F of the webpage).

A couple of things it clarifies:

• X49 only goes to 79th, so the headsign to The Plaza was b.s.
• As I thought, stops, at least for the combined express/local will be on the far side (again, at least after TSP is installed).
• Statements about how much the locals will be sped up by eliminating half the stops mitigate how much additional equipment might be needed.

 

[Tcmetro]

I accidentally added that about the 15 min service. I thought I read that somewhere in the news recently, but I can't find it.

[BusHunter]

DNAinfo.com has a story about the stops they want to eliminate on the Western and Ashland corridors. There's quite a few stops eliminated. In some spots the locals almost could be characterized as express. To me it seems like too many stops are eliminated. What I would do is make all the major stops far side stops which they will be doing here, but I would take it further and eliminate a few major stops, like do we need a #49 Armitage, Milwaukee and Blue line stop? I'd eliminate Milwaukee Sb and armitage Nb. Plus certain spots on the map are getting hit hard like practically north of belmont on western to montrose stops are every two blocks, where nothing is eliminated much on the west side but then parts of the south side get eliminated stops and parts maintain stops. Do we need a Fulton or Lake or Monroe stop on the #49 or stops outside the BN rail intermodal yard? #49 I would strongly look at Industrial areas to eliminate stops. Do we need a 32nd or 33rd street stop? Here's the link

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151102/lincoln-square/cta-cut-several-western-avenue-bus-stops-lincoln-square-north-center

(trouble seeing the stops just zoom up the map on the enclosed link they provide)

[Tcmetro]

I think more stops could be cut from the lines (and the bus system in general) to achieve a 1/4 mile spacing. Los Angeles, San Francisco, Kansas City, and Seattle all have programs to reduce stops to about every 1/4 mile. Less stops = faster service = more frequency with the same resources. 

CTA really should look into going the SF route,  and add Ventra readers at the back door and have police conduct fare checks. I believe that Los Angeles is also looking at implementing such a system across their network. 

[Busjack]

• Official list of stops on Western is here.
• They claimed, at least on TV, that they were using boarding data to determine which stops weren't being used. Those in industrial areas must used used by the people that work there. The data, of course, are there, between the counters in the door wells and Ventra records. TC Metro: Thew don't need Ventra readers at the back door, because the Clever Device readers (the things with the 4 lasers) are there.
• BusHunter's comment on Armitage is confusing, but looking at the official list, Blue Line is an express (joint) stop and Armitage is a local stop, which is kind of close. If you want to make an argument, Western Brown Line is only a block from Lawrence, but it is pulling in there, but obviously CTA is not going to eliminate express stops at L stations.
• I'll agree there are more local stops maintained on the west side than seem justified solely by transfer traffic.

[ChicagoNova]

I think more stops could be cut from the lines (and the bus system in general) to achieve a 1/4 mile spacing. Los Angeles, San Francisco, Kansas City, and Seattle all have programs to reduce stops to about every 1/4 mile. Less stops = faster service = more frequency with the same resources. 

CTA really should look into going the SF route,  and add Ventra readers at the back door and have police conduct fare checks. I believe that Los Angeles is also looking at implementing such a system across their network. 

I agree.

[BusHunter]

• Official list of stops on Western is here.
• They claimed, at least on TV, that they were using boarding data to determine which stops weren't being used. Those in industrial areas must used used by the people that work there. The data, of course, are there, between the counters in the door wells and Ventra records. TC Metro: Thew don't need Ventra readers at the back door, because the Clever Device readers (the things with the 4 lasers) are there.
• BusHunter's comment on Armitage is confusing, but looking at the official list, Blue Line is an express (joint) stop and Armitage is a local stop, which is kind of close. If you want to make an argument, Western Brown Line is only a block from Lawrence, but it is pulling in there, but obviously CTA is not going to eliminate express stops at L stations.
• I'll agree there are more local stops maintained on the west side than seem justified solely by transfer traffic.

There's nothing confusing about that, the milwaukee and armitage stops are 100 feet apart. Just think if they made Armitage a far side stop, then basically you would cross Milwaukee for another stop and then what move up 50 feet to serve the blue line? I don't know who said Waveland doesn't have ridership. i see people getting off there. I see less getting off south of the blue line. Too bad they couldn't speed up the Chicago to north ave area because that is slow, but the stops are pretty popular.

Looking at the map they do appear to be eliminating milwaukee and a few of the others i mentioned. This is almost like brt lite. It sort of reminds me of the #J14 corridor, but the #49 locals are acting like a #J14 instead of a #15.

Edited November 7, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

....

Looking at the map they do appear to be eliminating milwaukee and a few of the others i mentioned. This is almost like brt lite. It sort of reminds me of the #J14 corridor, but the #49 locals are acting like a #J14 instead of a #15.

J14 stops essentially only on odd streets, so these locals are similar.

[Juniorz]

December 21st is the return of the x9 and x49

[TaylorTank1229]

December 21st is the return of the x9 and x49

So, First Day Of Winter Huh? Makes Sense I Suppose.

[Busjack]

So, First Day Of Winter Huh? Makes Sense I Suppose.

Probably more relevant is what is pick day.

[pudgym29]

The Authority proposes to eliminate the #9 Ashland stop @ Barry. That is the stop which lets you visit the LTH Forum GNR Red Hot Ranch (2).

If this is not a traffic generator, I do not know what is.

Although, I am willing to also admit that Gene's & Jude's Red Hot Stand @ Grand @ River Rd. in River Grove also fits my definition of 'traffic generator'.

[Busjack]

The Authority proposes to eliminate the #9 Ashland stop @ Barry. That is the stop which lets you visit the LTH Forum GNR Red Hot Ranch (2).

If this is not a traffic generator, I do not know what is.

Although, I am willing to also admit that Gene's & Jude's Red Hot Stand @ Grand @ River Rd. in River Grove also fits my definition of 'traffic generator'.

I suppose, then that the hot dog stands should bring an FOIA request to see the GPS boarding statistics at those stops.

However (considering sw's posts) the Jewel and the sheltered workshop on Lincoln couldn't save the 11 bus, and the rationale for these locals is a stop every 1/4 mile, I guess the stands will have to hope that those consuming the double chili cheese fries don't have a heart attack walking the extra block. It isn't like there is any shortage of hot dog stands in Chicago.