CTA 100 percent rail station accessibility

[BusHunter]

The trib had an article on this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-cta-accessibility-program-met-20160106-story.html

(can't view the article due to a pay wall, use your smartphone)

They mention that CTA is looking at ways to make the final 32 percent of stations accessible. They state they cannot make Damen/Milwaukee accessible without buying property. I think they could make it accessible. Just push back the stairs from the station house as far back as they can go, they have an extra 20-25 feet to play with and put your elevator where the stairs are now. Or they could leave the stairs alone and put the elevator back where the stairs are proposed by me. The elevator would be next to a building but if encased in brick like the brown line stops it wouldn't matter. Another option is pull out the station house to be more flush with Damen. That buys 30 feet at least. They should have the space to do this. I would think North/Clybourn would be more difficult as it would probably need a complete reconstruction

[Busjack]

Was also on Channel 7.1 last night, and after Chuck Goudie about plotzed implying that it was an ADA violation that people were hauling suitcases down the stairs at Clinton/Congress (did Amtrak just come in from LA or was it staged?), showed an image of the Press Release, which is here.

If only 46 of 146 stations are not accessible, the vast majority of those stations are on the two heaviest lines, Red North and Blue. As indicated in the Press Release, Wilson and RPM would take care of the Red Line, and if they ever redo the Eisenhower part, that would take care of that, but BusHunter left the inference that putting Your New Blue on the list was a farce, as only one station gets an elevator.

7 hours ago, BusHunter said:

They state they cannot make Damen/Milwaukee accessible without buying property.

But, if nothing else, that provides their excuse why the project was a half adzed job given only $400 million was allocated to it. Remember, I said most of the station work was simply decorating on the cheap.

____________

BTW, I noted that while  the body of thr Press Release had the usual homages to "Mayor Rahm Emanuel," that phrase was not in the headline, nor any mention of him at the event. I guess the City Hall press office has other concerns. Didn't I hear something about the Law Dept.?

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Was also on Channel 7.1 last night, and after Chuck Goudie about plotzed implying that it was an ADA violation that people were hauling suitcases down the stairs at Clinton/Congress (did Amtrak just come in from LA or was it staged?), showed an image of the Press Release, which is here.

If only 46 of 146 stations are not accessible, the vast majority of those stations are on the two heaviest lines, Red North and Blue. As indicated in the Press Release, Wilson and RPM would take care of the Red Line, and if they ever redo the Eisenhower part, that would take care of that, but BusHunter left the inference that putting Your New Blue on the list was a farce, as only one station gets an elevator.

But, if nothing else, that provides their excuse why the project was a half adzed job given only $400 million was allocated to it. Remember, I said most of the station work was simply decorating on the cheap.

____________

BTW, I noted that while  the body of thr Press Release had the usual homages to "Mayor Rahm Emanuel," that phrase was not in the headline, nor any mention of him at the event. I guess the City Hall press office has other concerns. Didn't I hear something about the Law Dept.?

I can't imagine why they would say they can't do Damen/Milwaukee blue line. I can only think of the platform to North Ave on the nb side is not wide enough for wheelchairs ( I think they need 10 feet across) but you could solve that just putting a rotogate at the 8 car mark and just leaving the rotogate at the north ave exit if they don't want loitering on the platform. Regardless though the blue line will be last and the blue line subway stations will take as long to complete as the Red line subway ones and those have been getting rebuilt since the mid to late 90's. So if they got on the horn now maybe they could make 2040. i still don't understand why all loop stations are not accessible. Those should be the priority.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Regardless though the blue line will be last and the blue line subway stations will take as long to complete as the Red line subway ones and those have been getting rebuilt since the mid to late 90's.

Issue there is how well this group is coordinating with CDOT, as CDOT owns the subways (as its predecessor was the grantee during the Great Depression).

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

i still don't understand why all loop stations are not accessible. Those should be the priority.

Issue is what they want to do with one ones that need reconstruction, primarily State/Lake, Adams/Wabash, and LaSalle/Van Buren. There was the CMAQ application for State/Lake, but CMAP staff didn't approve it.

However, your question gets down to what Chuck Goudy didn't understand--CTA is compliant with ADA regs because they require adding accessibility only if that is less than 20% the cost of construction. No construction, essentially no violation, so long as there is an accessible station close enough (5 miles on the Metra Electric). Goudy seems to think that CTA should put an elevator into Argyle now, even though the plan is to tear out that stretch and replace it.

[Busjack]

The heat was turned up on this, you can guess where, at an Evanston ADA meeting. Details in the Evanston Roundtable.

[strictures]

I just want the CTA re-establish the direct connection to LaSalle Street Station that used to exist.

As for the Eisenhower stations, all of them have ramps to street level, even the Medical Center one, that they added a stairway to years ago.

[NewFlyerMCI]

9 minutes ago, strictures said:

I just want the CTA re-establish the direct connection to LaSalle Street Station that used to exist.

As for the Eisenhower stations, all of them have ramps to street level, even the Medical Center one, that they added a stairway to years ago.

The ramps aren't ADA-accessible (I assume b/c the grade is too steep). Between UIC & Forest Park, only those two + IMD are ADA-accessible.

[Sam92]

On 5/26/2024 at 8:30 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

The ramps aren't ADA-accessible (I assume b/c the grade is too steep). 

Because you'll miss 5 trains walking to the platform 🥴🤣🤣

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Because you'll miss 5 trains walking to the platform 🥴🤣🤣

You have a better chance on those ramps than using stairs or non-working escalators.

[Busjack]

On 5/26/2024 at 8:30 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

The ramps aren't ADA-accessible (I assume b/c the grade is too steep). Between UIC & Forest Park, only those two + IMD are ADA-accessible.

The other considerations are whether there is a fare gate or just turnstiles, and if there is sufficient clearance on the platform.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

The other considerations are whether there is a fare gate or just turnstiles, and if there is sufficient clearance on the platform.

The small station houses are the biggest issue.  There's no room for an accessible fare gate in these stations.   The ramps are passable so long as there aren't people walking in the opposite direction which makes for a tight squeeze.   The platform itself  is also narrow but passable.   Even though IMD and Kedzie Homan stations are ADA Compliant. none of the platforms were ever widened    For that matter,  neither were any Green Line platforms  which are the same as before the stations were made ADA Compliant. 

[strictures]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The small station houses are the biggest issue.  There's no room for an accessible fare gate in these stations.   The ramps are passable so long as there aren't people walking in the opposite direction which makes for a tight squeeze.   The platform itself  is also narrow but passable.   Even though IMD and Kedzie Homan stations are ADA Compliant. none of the platforms were ever widened    For that matter,  neither were any Green Line platforms  which are the same as before the stations were made ADA Compliant. 

While State/Lake is really narrow, Clinton, Garfield & Cottage Grove are very wide platforms.  The Oak Park ones that were raised from grade in the 1960s are narrow, due to the limited width of the C&NW right-of-way available to the CTA then.

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, artthouwill said:

...   The platform itself  is also narrow but passable.   Even though IMD and Kedzie Homan stations are ADA Compliant. none of the platforms were ever widened    For that matter,  neither were any Green Line platforms  which are the same as before the stations were made ADA Compliant. 

 

2 hours ago, strictures said:

While State/Lake is really narrow, Clinton, Garfield & Cottage Grove are very wide platforms.  The Oak Park ones that were raised from grade in the 1960s are narrow, due to the limited width of the C&NW right-of-way available to the CTA then.s

As shown in the drawings for the Fullerton and Belmont NSM stations, the issue is not whether the platforms are wider than before, but whether there is sufficient turning radius for a wheelchair, given obstructions such as benches, stairwells, and elevator shafts.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

While State/Lake is really narrow, Clinton, Garfield & Cottage Grove are very wide platforms.  The Oak Park ones that were raised from grade in the 1960s are narrow, due to the limited width of the C&NW right-of-way available to the CTA then.

Bronzevilke 35th, 43rd, 47th, and 51st are still narrow.  Garfield was widened because it is a newer station.  The original station was on the south side of Garfield while the current one is on the north side of Garfield. 

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, artthouwill said:

Bronzevilke 35th, 43rd, 47th, and 51st are still narrow.  Garfield was widened because it is a newer station.  The original station was on the south side of Garfield while the current one is on the north side of Garfield. 

See above.

[artthouwill]

1 minute ago, Busjack said:

 

As shown in the drawings for the Fullerton and Belmont NSM stations, the issue is not whether the platforms are wider than before, but whether there is sufficient turning radius for a wheelchair, given obstructions such as benches, stairwells, and elevator shafts.

But obviously those platforms were indeed widened and the outer tracks relocated to accommodate the wider platforms .    Those are and have always been Island platforms so most likely the widened platforms have to do with elevator accommodation.

[artthouwill]

5 minutes ago, Busjack said:

See above.

I also said the platforms were passable, meaning there's enough room for turning radius for a wheelchair to turn and successfully navigate the platform, though there isn't a lot of spare room.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

But obviously those platforms were indeed widened and the outer tracks relocated to accommodate the wider platforms .    Those are and have always been Island platforms so most likely the widened platforms have to do with elevator accommodation.

 

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I also said the platforms were passable, meaning there's enough room for turning radius for a wheelchair to turn and successfully navigate the platform, though there isn't a lot of spare room.

I was addressing the line of argument that you and @strictures appeared to make, that they widened this platform but didn't widen that one, when that wasn't the issue per se. Your second post quoted above is more in point. Conversely, Addison and Howard are accessible, but the RPM Vision document says they are too narrow to handle the passenger load.

[NewFlyerMCI]

Logically, I know 35th/B'ville/IIT is ADA-accessible, but to the point about platform widths, that one feels like you could fall off the platform at any time.

[Busjack]

CTA published All Stations Accessibility Program 2024 Update. The main takeaways I got:

• Blue Line Forest Park branch is not dependent on IDOT, but IDOT is to be taken into account regarding pedestrian access and the like.. The same design philosophy  applies to all: the ramp at the main entrance will be removed and replaced by an elevator, but a ramp will be provided on the other end of the platform as an emergency exit.
• RPM is essentially not part of this study, which basically says that accessibility of the stations depends on RPM, and estimates the cost of Phase 2 and following at $6-8 Billion. So much for thise who want an elevator at Central Street.
• Adams/Wabash and LaSalle/Van Buren would have to be totally rebuilt (preserve the L structure, but remove stationhouses and platforms).
• Among the design considerattions: "Platform Widths and Lengths
  Many platforms are too narrow or too short to accommodate an elevator or to allow adequate space  for wheelchair passing and turning."