Pace Electric Buses

[chicagocubs6323]

Pace announced at today's board meeting they are planning on launching an electric bus program and they're planning on also purchasing charging infrastructure for the North Division garage (Waukegan).

Source: 

 

[Tcmetro]

I listened to the Planning Committee meeting last week and they said South and Northwest will be the only CNG garages. Alternative fuel efforts are shifting to electric, which is in-line with what most large agencies are doing.

[artthouwill]

40 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

I listened to the Planning Committee meeting last week and they said South and Northwest will be the only CNG garages. Alternative fuel efforts are shifting to electric, which is in-line with what most large agencies are doing.

So it looks like North will be an electric garage.  Will SW eventually become an all electric garage also?  

[Tcmetro]

I would imagine that long-term (e.g. 2040, which is the CTA target) all of Pace's buses would be electric.

That being said, they still have to prove out the tech. There's some agencies in CA that have a lot of electric buses (I believe Palmdale/Lancaster is already 100% electric), but there's no big agency that has a substantial fleet yet.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

I listened to the Planning Committee meeting last week and they said South and Northwest will be the only CNG garages. Alternative fuel efforts are shifting to electric, which is in-line with what most large agencies are doing.

I would test out some smaller electric buses, this way if it fails it wont be as heavy a burden on the budget. What they did before was smart putting 2 small hybrids at highland pk. Unfortunately they are ordering small buses right now and I dont think the options are anything but diesel. But it would be interesting to test at niles or highland pk. Something small. Does eldorado even make electric buses? NF has it's small bus. They would have to build the infrastructure as well. If CTA is any indication it takes a long time just to get off the ground.

[Tcmetro]

I believe there are some small electric buses, but a lot of the focus seems to be on 40' & 60' models.

 

Here's a smaller electric bus, the Arboc Equess Charge:

https://arbocsv.com/models/equess-charge/

 

[NewFlyerMCI]

17 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I would test out some smaller electric buses, this way if it fails it wont be as heavy a burden on the budget. What they did before was smart putting 2 small hybrids at highland pk. Unfortunately they are ordering small buses right now and I dont think the options are anything but diesel. But it would be interesting to test at niles or highland pk. Something small. Does eldorado even make electric buses? NF has it's small bus. They would have to build the infrastructure as well. If CTA is any indication it takes a long time just to get off the ground.

Proterra and New Flyer ( and maybe BYD as well?) are the only agencies that make electric buses shorter than 40'. Nova doesn't make any buses shorter than 40', so what remains to be seen is if Gillig, who just debuted an electric 40' will also make a 35' or 30' as well. Eldorado doesn't have an electric bus on the market either, but they do make 30'/35' buses, so maybe we'll see something in the next couple of years.

[NewFlyerMCI]

11 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

I believe there are some small electric buses, but a lot of the focus seems to be on 40' & 60' models.

 

Here's a smaller electric bus, the Arboc Equess Charge:

https://arbocsv.com/models/equess-charge/

 

LOL, I didn't know Arboc made actual buses. In production since 2016 (the CNG one) and only 3 customers (1 for hospital shuttles, 1 for a car rental agency and only 1 actual transit agency)? Either they aren't bidding or they literally just keep getting skipped. Supposed to be for rural transit operations too, they could've made a killing with Pace and other agencies. They look like squashed Orion Vs. The Charge variant just looks like a BYD bus.

[NewFlyerMCI]

18 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

I would imagine that long-term (e.g. 2040, which is the CTA target) all of Pace's buses would be electric.

That being said, they still have to prove out the tech. There's some agencies in CA that have a lot of electric buses (I believe Palmdale/Lancaster is already 100% electric), but there's no big agency that has a substantial fleet yet.

Yeah, I was looking the other day, if we aren't counting trolleybuses, I don't think there's an agency with more than 50 electric buses. Really more than 30, except for AVTA which you just mentioned, which is somewhere btwn 30-50. And yes, I think they might just be the first all electric fleet in the country, once their 30 D4500s start or finish retirement. They just took delivery of their first new D45 Charge about 3 weeks ago, and they have 25 of those on order I believe

[NewFlyerMCI]

19 hours ago, artthouwill said:

So it looks like North will be an electric garage.  Will SW eventually become an all electric garage also?  

SW would be a good garage, especially if Pace coordinates with CTA in regards to putting more charging equipment at Midway. I think they were right to start with Waukegan, and River might be a better choice before SW. And Heritage (I believe that's the one serving Joliet? Please correct me if I'm wrong). Ideally, before the pandemic, the metra commuter routes in Aurora/Naperville would've been the best choice to debut.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

SW would be a good garage, especially if Pace coordinates with CTA in regards to putting more charging equipment at Midway. I think they were right to start with Waukegan, and River might be a better choice before SW. And Heritage (I believe that's the one serving Joliet? Please correct me if I'm wrong). Ideally, before the pandemic, the metra commuter routes in Aurora/Naperville would've been the best choice to debut.

River would be interesting,  especially with the i-90 express service..

I'm not sure about Heritage nor Fox Valley since they operate primarily 30' buses.  It looks like Pace will order 13 new coach buses for the I-55 corridor.   Personally I would like to see Prevost win this contract.   If MCI wins,  will they be electric or diesel?  Honestly I don't think their electrics get much more than 200 miles on a charge which is very poor for a highway coach.  Whatever coaches they get will be housed at their new Plainfield garage which is scheduled to open next year.  

[Tcmetro]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

LOL, I didn't know Arboc made actual buses. In production since 2016 (the CNG one) and only 3 customers (1 for hospital shuttles, 1 for a car rental agency and only 1 actual transit agency)? Either they aren't bidding or they literally just keep getting skipped. Supposed to be for rural transit operations too, they could've made a killing with Pace and other agencies. They look like squashed Orion Vs. The Charge variant just looks like a BYD bus.

They were recently acquired by New Flyer, so that might help them in getting more customers. Probably more focused on cutaway operations looking for larger buses.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

River would be interesting,  especially with the i-90 express service..

I'm not sure about Heritage nor Fox Valley since they operate primarily 30' buses.  It looks like Pace will order 13 new coach buses for the I-55 corridor.   Personally I would like to see Prevost win this contract.   If MCI wins,  will they be electric or diesel?  Honestly I don't think their electrics get much more than 200 miles on a charge which is very poor for a highway coach.  Whatever coaches they get will be housed at their new Plainfield garage which is scheduled to open next year.  

30' buses are always better to try electric buses out than anything else imo, although you do limit your choices of manufacturer.

Any new coach is going to be diesel imo. Personally, I'm hoping Pace acquires the D45 CRT bus. The electric version only gets ~170 miles on a full 3-hour charge, which in fairness would be ok for the I-55 routes, since a one way trip from Plainfield to River North is about ~50 miles.  I wouldn't mind seeing the X3-45. Currently, WestCAT in Contra Costa County, CA and HudsonLink & MTA in NY are the only ones that use the X3-45 for commuter service.

[NewFlyerMCI]

43 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

They were recently acquired by New Flyer, so that might help them in getting more customers. Probably more focused on cutaway operations looking for larger buses.

No wonder they've survived that long. Also explains that electric bus. I figured it was cutaways keeping them afloat anyhow

[Tcmetro]

32 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

30' buses are always better to try electric buses out than anything else imo, although you do limit your choices of manufacturer.

Any new coach is going to be diesel imo. Personally, I'm hoping Pace acquires the D45 CRT bus. The electric version only gets ~170 miles on a full 3-hour charge, which in fairness would be ok for the I-55 routes, since a one way trip from Plainfield to River North is about ~50 miles.  I wouldn't mind seeing the X3-45. Currently, WestCAT in Contra Costa County, CA and HudsonLink & MTA in NY are the only ones that use the X3-45 for commuter service.

AVTA in Palmdale/Lancaster is supposed to start operating 25 electric MCI coaches soon! I can't remember the model number off hand, but it's the new one that has the low-floor area for wheelchairs.

[BusHunter]

I didnt know that it was North getting the electrics. Well then what happens to the #6700's? I'm already wondering where the #6400s are going. They are gonna have alot of spare buses. Why buy 20300s when you have 150 buses ripe for the picking. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

7 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

AVTA in Palmdale/Lancaster is supposed to start operating 25 electric MCI coaches soon! I can't remember the model number off hand, but it's the new one that has the low-floor area for wheelchairs.

That would be the D45 LRT I just mentioned, the Charge variant. I've very excited to see these in service past just a demo bus. Valley Metro was the first to debut theirs for in service (not sure what happened to SouthWest Transit and AC Transit's orders) but I believe AVTA will be the first to debut the Charge variant.

[BusHunter]

Pace has a document out that shows a Pace watermark or letterhead in front of a Proterra bus. They wouldnt do that to themselves would they? CTA's long procurement hopefully is a learning lesson to someone. Pace is supposed to order 6 for 2022 so we should hear an official announcement shortly. 

 

[Tcmetro]

36 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

That would be the D45 LRT I just mentioned, the Charge variant. I've very excited to see these in service past just a demo bus. Valley Metro was the first to debut theirs for in service (not sure what happened to SouthWest Transit and AC Transit's orders) but I believe AVTA will be the first to debut the Charge variant.

I believe Southwest Transit's are in service now, but I haven't been up to Minneapolis in a while. 

Next time I'm up there I'll have to scope them out for a ride. Thanks for the reminder, lol.

[NewFlyerMCI]

25 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

I believe Southwest Transit's are in service now, but I haven't been up to Minneapolis in a while. 

Next time I'm up there I'll have to scope them out for a ride. Thanks for the reminder, lol.

Good luck. I've been trying to find pics or videos of anything other than the demo bus and then I found out they only have 2 buses. They're getting some more, they exercised a contract option off of AC Transit's order, but that won't be for a while.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Pace has a document out that shows a Pace watermark or letterhead in front of a Proterra bus. They wouldnt do that to themselves would they? CTA's long procurement hopefully is a learning lesson to someone. Pace is supposed to order 6 for 2022 so we should hear an official announcement shortly. 

 

Could Pace piggyback on CTA'S order?

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Could Pace piggyback on CTA'S order?

Dont know. It almost sounds like the same order cta has made. They should just borrow a bus from cta for a pilot bus and see how they are. I like the bus just someone has to do something about the interlock releasing. Takes like 9 seconds. That seems like an eternity. Maybe the new models are better. We can hope anyway 

[artthouwill]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:09 PM, BusHunter said:

Dont know. It almost sounds like the same order cta has made. They should just borrow a bus from cta for a pilot bus and see how they are. I like the bus just someone has to do something about the interlock releasing. Takes like 9 seconds. That seems like an eternity. Maybe the new models are better. We can hope anyway 

Would Pace have to put out an RFP for 6 buses?  The future calls for more which would have to be competitive bidding.  I would think that Pace would want to test New Flyers and Proterras and anyone else who has electric buses.  

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Would Pace have to put out an RFP for 6 buses?  The future calls for more which would have to be competitive bidding.  I would think that Pace would want to test New Flyers and Proterras and anyone else who has electric buses.  

Well obviously the 6 are test buses and the 46 are the rest of the order. It probably has to all be packaged together as one contract. But you see that is the exact same thing cta did. 6 buses 600-605 and then the rest of the order after a year of testing. (But in cta's case they have been messing with these buses since 2018 and all they have is 6 test buses.)

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, Gil said:

Heritage was soon to be launched to have it's first electric buses and they have it's lion transit factory in Joliet 

HP could use Lions (maybe the LionM), but every Pace meeting says that the electric bus project is at North (Waukegan) {see, for instance, the cover letter on the 2022 budget).