New York Miscellany

[Busjack]

Since MTA doesn't run the Yellow Line, I created this, based on @artthouwill's post on the New York subway collision of 1/4/2024, which has a good description of what was known at the time, and to rebut @strictures's simplistic explanation of causation. The NTSB briefing is here.What hits me first is that the train on which the cord was pulled and the brakes wouldn't reset was being pushed by car 6 (with crew lookouts on car 1) hit a train with passengers that was crossing over from the express to local tracks--it was not the passenger train striking a dead train. NTSB didn't have much else to say, but other sources, such as ABC 7 New York did. It seems like ABC 7 misstated what collided with what, but among other tidbits:
 

• "'...the train that was out of service didn't have the signal. As a result, it bumped into the train,' NYC Transit President Richard Davey said." So, I was correct--the signal system didn't prevent the collision, nor did it seem to have, what was rudimentary from pre-CTA days, a trip to prevent a train from fouling an interlocking.

• "They questioned why there were no cameras on the inside or outside of the disabled train, along with no data recorder on board. All three of those safety features would have quickly given investigators the answers they need to find the cause of the crash. They also say that those tools would allow for quicker safety improvements after an incident." About the first thing the NTSB said about the Yellow Line was that it had the event recorder, and we know the cars have cameras.

• "Many subway riders learned for the first time on Friday about the delays and cancelations, with some of them showing up at the 96th Street station only to discover that it was closed." At least CTA got the word out about the service suspension and bus alternatives.

I reiterate what I said around Thanksgiving: CTA has no need to imitate New York, and now it appears unwise to do so.
 

 

 

 

 

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Since MTA doesn't run the Yellow Line, I created this, based on @artthouwill's post on the New York subway collision of 1/4/2024, which has a good description of what was known at the time, and to rebut @strictures's simplistic explanation of causation. The NTSB briefing is here.What hits me first is that the train on which the cord was pulled and the brakes wouldn't reset was being pushed by car 6 (with crew lookouts on car 1) hit a train with passengers that was crossing over from the express to local tracks--it was not the passenger train striking a dead train. NTSB didn't have much else to say, but other sources, such as ABC 7 New York did. It seems like ABC 7 misstated what collided with what, but among other tidbits:
 

• "'...the train that was out of service didn't have the signal. As a result, it bumped into the train,' NYC Transit President Richard Davey said." So, I was correct--the signal system didn't prevent the collision, nor did it seem to have, what was rudimentary from pre-CTA days, a trip to prevent a train from fouling an interlocking.

• "They questioned why there were no cameras on the inside or outside of the disabled train, along with no data recorder on board. All three of those safety features would have quickly given investigators the answers they need to find the cause of the crash. They also say that those tools would allow for quicker safety improvements after an incident." About the first thing the NTSB said about the Yellow Line was that it had the event recorder, and we know the cars have cameras.

• "Many subway riders learned for the first time on Friday about the delays and cancelations, with some of them showing up at the 96th Street station only to discover that it was closed." At least CTA got the word out about the service suspension and bus alternatives.

I reiterate what I said around Thanksgiving: CTA has no need to imitate New York, and now it appears unwise to do so.
 

 

 

 

 

To your point concerning a trip mechanism I do think a trip would have prevented this accident even if it one was in place.  Once a train blows a red signal, the train should automatically come to a stop.  But that's always under the assumption that the train is being powered by the lead car.  In this case, the brakes were cut out on the first five cars.  Therefore there would have been nothing to trip.  The sixth car was the car powering the train.  So theoretically,  the sixth car would have to blow the red signal for such a system to work.   But more than likely,  the distance between the signal and the interlocking was shorter than that, considering the interlocking was just north of the 96th St Station.. 

I know NTSB isn't keen blaming human error,  but could rhe crew at the front of the empty train have alerted the driver in the 6th car about the red signal and/or the train crossing through the interlocking from the express to local track?  

If I remember correctly,  I think they said the 10 car consists was made up of 2 5 car consists with one coupler connecting cars 5 and 6.  I believe it was car 3 that had the brakes that couldn't be reset 

[strictures]

14 hours ago, Busjack said:

 and to rebut @strictures's simplistic explanation of causation.

 

 

 

 

In my defense, I was basing my statement based on news reports in NYC paper's websites.

[artthouwill]

One of the crew members who was in the lead car said he radioed his supervisor (who was driving the train from the 6th car) to stop the train.   But he didn't. 

On the surface it seems like he was throwing his supervisor under the bus ( train?).  But I think it's possible that the supervisor didn't hear or receive the radio transmission.   It would be interesting to hear from the supervisor  

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

One of the crew members who was in the lead car said he radioed his supervisor (who was driving the train from the 6th car) to stop the train.   But he didn't. 

On the surface it seems like he was throwing his supervisor under the bus ( train?).  But I think it's possible that the supervisor didn't hear or receive the radio transmission.   It would be interesting to hear from the supervisor  

ICMI: Governor Hochul Announces that essentially nothing happened. A couple of trains bumped, and the vandalized train was taken to the yard. The perfect NYCTA said nothing about the pulled cord, brakes that couldn't be reset, signal or communications problems, lookout, or supervision.

NTSB Chair Homendy  said the day after the accident that it was too early to assess blame, and I wonder if MTA intends to do so.

[Busjack]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:59 PM, artthouwill said:

To your point concerning a trip mechanism I do think a trip would have prevented this accident even if it one was in place.  Once a train blows a red signal, the train should automatically come to a stop.  But that's always under the assumption that the train is being powered by the lead car.  In this case, the brakes were cut out on the first five cars.  Therefore there would have been nothing to trip.

The current NTSB page says that's what happened:

Quote

The track in the area was equipped with trip-stops, which activate a train’s emergency brakes if the train passes through a signal requiring a stop. Because the brakes on the first five railcars had been cut out, emergency brakes could not be activated by the trip-stop.

 

[Busjack]

New York will send National Guard to subways after a string of violent crimes

[Busjack]

Something a New Yawker said doesn't exist, but only becase subway cars there don't cameras (but passengers have cell phones): NYC subway shooter will not face charges, Brooklyn DA says citing 'evidence of self-defense': VIDEO

[Smolensk]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Something a New Yawker said doesn't exist, but only becase subway cars there don't cameras (but passengers have cell phones): NYC subway shooter will not face charges, Brooklyn DA says citing 'evidence of self-defense': VIDEO

Thanks for the video!

Things I learned today: If you are going to stab somebody in the back, don't leave the knife in.

[Busjack]

CNN on how NYC Congestion Pricing is supposed to work.

Seems a bit intrusive, but, locally, Evanston uses license plate readers to enforce its Wheel Tax (instead of city stickers).

[Busjack]

Sort of sounds like the Chicago parking meter deal. I saw it on WGN, but here's a NY Post reference: MTA wanted the Marathon organizers to pay tolls lost by closing the Verrazzano -Narrows Bridge, but Hochul said fugeddaboutit.