CTA Bus Vision Project

[Tcmetro]

Today CTA published the overview of the current bus network and a survey asking which routes need better service and which new services should be added. 

 

https://ctabusvisionproject.com/

[Busjack]

Some interesting and new points:

• Rideshare has cut CTA ridership (even though it's presumably more expensive).
• Both CTA and Pace consultants have brought up "Ridership vs. Coverage." I assume CTA has better coverage.
• The 2010 cuts are still a concern, 14 years later.

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Some interesting and new points:

• Rideshare has cut CTA ridership (even though it's presumably more expensive).
• Both CTA and Pace consultants have brought up "Ridership vs. Coverage." I assume CTA has better coverage.
• The 2010 cuts are still a concern, 14 years later.

As far as the 2010 cuts that definitely impacted non downtown crosstown travel which snowballed into rideshare cutting into ridership. Earlier end of service also may be a part of it cause just like they did a sweeping cut of x routes they hit every support route with 10:30 end times so people south of 95th that aren't close to 34 or 352 have to figure some way back to where they wanna go or leave early enough for that last bus. Maybe the 2012 decrowding approach should have been used in 2010. At least pace was able to pick up outlying areas that cta left behind so those riders still had something to fall back on. I would have cut the weakest X routes (X3, X4, X20) along with consolidating Inner Drive south of Irving, splitting 111 and finding a way to borrow funds for fisk since now they're in a situation where they can't increase bus service beyond the precovid levels due to missing an 8th (preferably centrally located) garage. 

[Tcmetro]

CTA had to know that cutting service was ultimately going to reduce ridership. 

The thinking was that there was "excess" service that could be trimmed, but many people use the bus in Chicago for a wide variety of trips at all hours of the day. It's different than most other cities where most of the ridership is people going to work at rush hour and the buses are running empty in the middle of the day and on weekends.

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, Sam92 said:

As far as the 2010 cuts that definitely impacted non downtown crosstown travel which snowballed into rideshare cutting into ridership. Earlier end of service also may be a part of it cause just like they did a sweeping cut of x routes they hit every support route with 10:30 end times so people south of 95th that aren't close to 34 or 352 have to figure some way back to where they wanna go or leave early enough for that last bus. Maybe the 2012 decrowding approach should have been used in 2010....

However, what they should have done in 2010 compared to 2012 isn't relevant to 2025, unless the consultants (remember, this is only a preliminary consultants' report) are going to recommend going back to a 2009 level of service. I read it as that they can't even recommend going back to a 2019 level of service.

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA had to know that cutting service was ultimately going to reduce ridership. 

The thinking was that there was "excess" service that could be trimmed, but many people use the bus in Chicago for a wide variety of trips at all hours of the day. It's different than most other cities where most of the ridership is people going to work at rush hour and the buses are running empty in the middle of the day and on weekends.

No, the thinking in 2006 and 2009 was that if the legislature was not going to give CTA most of Pace's and Metra's money, there is going to be a crisis, real or manufactured. The 2006 proposal was to run only a Sunday schedule, 7 days a week, which would have eliminated all service in the periphery areas now being mentioned. That got shot down, so the 2010 proposal was to cut bus across the board 20%.

[Sam92]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:27 PM, Busjack said:

However, what they should have done in 2010 compared to 2012 isn't relevant to 2025, unless the consultants (remember, this is only a preliminary consultants' report) are going to recommend going back to a 2009 level of service. I read it as that they can't even recommend going back to a 2019 level of service.

 

The way I interpreted things were that 

1: The lack of later service and weaker off peak service since the cuts probably encouraged ridershare trips especially since you don't have the X routes to handle some crosstown routes. 

2: even if they don't go back to 2009 level service once they figure out how to get back to 2019 level service there's not much room to increase peak bus service beyond that since we're down a garage unless you wanna have inefficient things like 103rd and 77th going back to handling Northside routes since the remaining garages were still pretty overloaded until the decrowding plan cleared some more space so what happened back then somewhat impedes on more rush hours bus service until they find a new garage 

[Busjack]

37 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

unless you wanna have inefficient things like 103rd and 77th going back to handling Northside routes since the remaining garages were still pretty overloaded until the decrowding plan cleared some more space so what happened back then somewhat impedes on more rush hours bus service until they find a new garage

1. It depends where they perceive the service being insufficient. A lot of that talk seems to be on the south side.
2. On routes such as 8, 9, 49, and the current 94, 74th and 77th are essentially maintaining north side north/south service. In really old days, Limits had half of 8 and 9, and NP half of 49, now NP only has some rush hour runs.
3. Places to store buses doesn't seem that big an issue, given that the buildings acquired at FG have been razed, 77th could hold 400 or so buses, downtown storage, etc. Problem is lack of personnel to maintain the fleet.

In any event, the purpose of these surveys is to determine where riders are now going. If, in fact, the ridership consists of essential workers going to hospitals, and the office market is so decimated that (as reported) 30 N. LaSalle has 12 entirely empty floors, there's no need for 4 routes on LaSalle. Basing service on where the garages are is putting the cart before the horse.

[Sam92]

16 minutes ago, Busjack said:

1. It depends where they perceive the service being insufficient. A lot of that talk seems to be on the south side.
2. On routes such as 8, 9, 49, and the current 94, 74th and 77th are essentially maintaining north side north/south service. In really old days, Limits had half of 8 and 9, and NP half of 49, now NP only has some rush hour runs.
3. Places to store buses doesn't seem that big an issue, given that the buildings acquired at FG have been razed, 77th could hold 400 or so buses, downtown storage, etc. Problem is lack of personnel to maintain the fleet.

In any event, the purpose of these surveys is to determine where riders are now going. If, in fact, the ridership consists of essential workers going to hospitals, and the office market is so decimated that (as reported) 30 N. LaSalle has 12 entirely empty floors, there's no need for 4 routes on LaSalle. Basing service on where the garages are is putting the cart before the horse.

Yeah the 130s can probably go. I wasn't saying base the service where the garages are moreso pointing out the inefficiencies that came with closing archer since K and NP couldn't handle the 140s and 130s and needed help from 7 and 03. 8, 9 49 and 94 assignments make since with the southern terminals being close to those outside of Ashland being lopsided. k and C still have capacity issues and even though 77th has space logically it can only take on 35 and 39 from K but that's only like 7-10 buses

[strictures]

22 Clark desperately needs more buses.  Waits of 45 minutes or even more common on both weekdays & weekends.  I watch Bustracker from my home computer waiting for the 22 & often see there isn't a single NB 22 north of North Ave.  The easiest way to improve that is pull a few runs off the 26 Broadway, which never seems to have that problem.

The 151 Sheridans that go to Belmont/Halsted should go all the way to Clark/Devon middays.  Service north of Belmont is often atrocious, again with 45 minute waits not uncommon.  the numbers of passengers that go west on Belmont middays are minuscule, usually no more than 4-5 people per run, when I've taken it.  The only reason I do take it is the long, long waits on Michigan for a NB 147 at times, so I take the 151 to Belmont/ Halsted & then walk the block to Clark & catch a NB 22 to get home.

Now there's an additional problem that's not the CTA's fault, but the totally incompetent city's fault.  SB Lake shore Drive is often backed up to LaSalle Drive & occasionally to Fullerton at times, due to lane restrictions south of Division St., but the worst problem is that insane traffic light at Chicago Ave, with the entrance/exit to the Outer Drive, that just stops all SB traffic to a halt, which then wrecks SB 147 & any other bus route, including the deadheads that will then turn north to pick up passengers on NB Michigan downtown, getting off at Michigan/Oak.  The Control Center needs to keep a close watch on that section with say Google Maps & tell the drivers to exit & LaSalle Drive & take the Inner Drive to get to Michigan Ave., as the Inner Drive is never blocked up!  Just get rid of that traffic light & the entrance/exit at Chicago & if some people must go out of their way, tough, the majority's needs are greater!

[Sam92]

1 minute ago, strictures said:

22 Clark desperately needs more buses.  Waits of 45 minutes or even more common on both weekdays & weekends.  I watch Bustracker from my home computer waiting for the 22 & often see there isn't a single NB 22 north of North Ave.  The easiest way to improve that is pull a few runs off the 26 Broadway, which never seems to have that problem.

The 151 Sheridans that go to Belmont/Halsted should go all the way to Clark/Devon middays.  Service north of Belmont is often atrocious, again with 45 minute waits not uncommon.  the numbers of passengers that go west on Belmont middays are minuscule, usually no more than 4-5 people per run, when I've taken it.  The only reason I do take it is the long, long waits on Michigan for a NB 147 at times, so I take the 151 to Belmont/ Halsted & then walk the block to Clark & catch a NB 22 to get home.

Now there's an additional problem that's not the CTA's fault, but the totally incompetent city's fault.  SB Lake shore Drive is often backed up to LaSalle Drive & occasionally to Fullerton at times, due to lane restrictions south of Division St., but the worst problem is that insane traffic light at Chicago Ave, with the entrance/exit to the Outer Drive, that just stops all SB traffic to a halt, which then wrecks SB 147 & any other bus route, including the deadheads that will then turn north to pick up passengers on NB Michigan downtown, getting off at Michigan/Oak.  The Control Center needs to keep a close watch on that section with say Google Maps & tell the drivers to exit & LaSalle Drive & take the Inner Drive to get to Michigan Ave., as the Inner Drive is never blocked up!  Just get rid of that traffic light & the entrance/exit at Chicago & if some people must go out of their way, tough, the majority's needs are greater!

151 north of Belmont is covered by 146 and 147. The ridership is stronger south of Belmont which is why the shirt turns make since. 

[strictures]

38 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

151 north of Belmont is covered by 146 and 147. The ridership is stronger south of Belmont which is why the shirt turns make since. 

Only parts of it.  The 146 uses Marine Drive & many don't go west of there & never get to Broadway for some weird reason!

[Sam92]

1 minute ago, strictures said:

Only parts of it.  The 146 uses Marine Drive & many don't go west of there & never get to Broadway for some weird reason!

The number of people going from that far north on Sheridan to downtown or south of Belmont doesn't justify sending every bus to Devon and Clark. Sheridan is not that far from the 146

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, strictures said:

22 Clark desperately needs more buses.  Waits of 45 minutes or even more common on both weekdays & weekends.  I watch Bustracker from my home computer waiting for the 22 & often see there isn't a single NB 22 north of North Ave.  The easiest way to improve that is pull a few runs off the 26 Broadway, which never seems to have that problem.

The 151 Sheridans that go to Belmont/Halsted should go all the way to Clark/Devon middays.  Service north of Belmont is often atrocious, again with 45 minute waits not uncommon.  the numbers of passengers that go west on Belmont middays are minuscule, usually no more than 4-5 people per run, when I've taken it.  The only reason I do take it is the long, long waits on Michigan for a NB 147 at times, so I take the 151 to Belmont/ Halsted & then walk the block to Clark & catch a NB 22 to get home.

Now there's an additional problem that's not the CTA's fault, but the totally incompetent city's fault.  SB Lake shore Drive is often backed up to LaSalle Drive & occasionally to Fullerton at times, due to lane restrictions south of Division St., but the worst problem is that insane traffic light at Chicago Ave, with the entrance/exit to the Outer Drive, that just stops all SB traffic to a halt, which then wrecks SB 147 & any other bus route, including the deadheads that will then turn north to pick up passengers on NB Michigan downtown, getting off at Michigan/Oak.  The Control Center needs to keep a close watch on that section with say Google Maps & tell the drivers to exit & LaSalle Drive & take the Inner Drive to get to Michigan Ave., as the Inner Drive is never blocked up!  Just get rid of that traffic light & the entrance/exit at Chicago & if some people must go out of their way, tough, the majority's needs are greater!

 

If I were restructuring this, once RPM stage 1 is done, cut back on parallel bus routes. For instance, 147 could be made a local between Howard and Berwyn., eliminating several of your complaints. The project should determine that with a 30% vacancy rate on Michigan Ave., how much service is needed there.

One can also question how much rush hour service is needed on Clarendon; maybe extend some Halsted buses.

 

[Rail Introvert]

42 minutes ago, Busjack said:

 

If I were restructuring this, once RPM stage 1 is done, cut back on parallel bus routes. For instance, 147 could be made a local between Howard and Berwyn., eliminating several of your complaints. The project should determine that with a 30% vacancy rate on Michigan Ave., how much service is needed there.

 

The 147 is already making all stops between Howard & Berwyn.

[Busjack]

9 minutes ago, Rail Introvert said:

The 147 is already making all stops between Howard & Berwyn.

If I didn't make myself clear,  I meant that it should only run between Howard and Berwyn. Put the resources needed to run it downtown to somewhere else.

On second thought, run it only between Howard and Bryn Mawr.

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

22 Clark desperately needs more buses.  Waits of 45 minutes or even more common on both weekdays & weekends.  I watch Bustracker from my home computer waiting for the 22 & often see there isn't a single NB 22 north of North Ave.  The easiest way to improve that is pull a few runs off the 26 Broadway, which never seems to have that problem.

The 151 Sheridans that go to Belmont/Halsted should go all the way to Clark/Devon middays.  Service north of Belmont is often atrocious, again with 45 minute waits not uncommon.  the numbers of passengers that go west on Belmont middays are minuscule, usually no more than 4-5 people per run, when I've taken it.  The only reason I do take it is the long, long waits on Michigan for a NB 147 at times, so I take the 151 to Belmont/ Halsted & then walk the block to Clark & catch a NB 22 to get home.

Now there's an additional problem that's not the CTA's fault, but the totally incompetent city's fault.  SB Lake shore Drive is often backed up to LaSalle Drive & occasionally to Fullerton at times, due to lane restrictions south of Division St., but the worst problem is that insane traffic light at Chicago Ave, with the entrance/exit to the Outer Drive, that just stops all SB traffic to a halt, which then wrecks SB 147 & any other bus route, including the deadheads that will then turn north to pick up passengers on NB Michigan downtown, getting off at Michigan/Oak.  The Control Center needs to keep a close watch on that section with say Google Maps & tell the drivers to exit & LaSalle Drive & take the Inner Drive to get to Michigan Ave., as the Inner Drive is never blocked up!  Just get rid of that traffic light & the entrance/exit at Chicago & if some people must go out of their way, tough, the majority's needs are greater!

The city needs to restructure several corridors north of the Chicago River, I do agree with your point about LSD traffic becoming a gridlock parking lot at Chicago Ave. However, the light does help keep traffic separated from really becoming a parking lot south of the Chicago River before LSD and Columbus Dr merge together after Roosevelt. The 22 and 36 are two of the worst N/S routes that run parallel to the Red Line, lane reductions, concrete bike lanes, double parking on already narrow streets and special events really make both routes obsolete at times. 

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

The 22 and 36 are two of the worst N/S routes that run parallel to the Red Line, lane reductions, concrete bike lanes, double parking on already narrow streets and special events really make both routes obsolete at times. 

Other things to consider is that they are concurrent between Division and Diversey, and I don't know how it fits into my "take the L" scenario, but 36 is within 1/2 block of the L from Wilson to Granville.

The recent articles an the Ashland extension that Ashland hasn't gone north of Clark-Southport since 1912 shows how a lot of the system needs to be reviewed. Also, technically, it would have been the North Ashland streetcar, as the Ashland bridge was not opened until 1936.

[artthouwill]

12 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

The city needs to restructure several corridors north of the Chicago River, I do agree with your point about LSD traffic becoming a gridlock parking lot at Chicago Ave. However, the light does help keep traffic separated from really becoming a parking lot south of the Chicago River before LSD and Columbus Dr merge together after Roosevelt. The 22 and 36 are two of the worst N/S routes that run parallel to the Red Line, lane reductions, concrete bike lanes, double parking on already narrow streets and special events really make both routes obsolete at times. 

At one time,  the 36 had short turns at Broadway and Waveland.   Those trips were operated by the Limits garage, which was located at 2664 North Clark.  Obviously one benefit from this was cycling some byses between Addison and downtown quicker * at least in the 36).  But as you stated,  bike lanes have created havoc, not only in the north side but downtown as well.  Both Clark and Dearborn used to be three lanes in each direction,  creating nice traffic flow even during the rush hour.   Bur now both streets have lost a lane each to a bike lane  which creates gridlock, especially for buses.   Both routes suck as an alternative to the Red Line  so it's either the Red,  Brown or Purple Line for me from now on.  Imagine waiting over 30 minutes for one bus from either the 22 or the 36 to come.  That happened to me  PRE PANDEMIC.   I vowed it would never happen again.   From that point forward,  it's a walk to the nearest Brown or Red Line station.   I will not take the 22 or 36 again downtown from Lincoln Park or Lakeview unless i actually have a bus within sight.  I would not trust the Ventra App or any Tracker for those two routes.   If it's not the 146 or 147, it's the L, plain and simple. 

[Sam92]

15 hours ago, Busjack said:

 

If I were restructuring this, once RPM stage 1 is done, cut back on parallel bus routes. For instance, 147 could be made a local between Howard and Berwyn., eliminating several of your complaints. The project should determine that with a 30% vacancy rate on Michigan Ave., how much service is needed there.

One can also question how much rush hour service is needed on Clarendon; maybe extend some Halsted buses.

 

 

14 hours ago, Busjack said:

If I didn't make myself clear,  I meant that it should only run between Howard and Berwyn. Put the resources needed to run it downtown to somewhere else.

On second thought, run it only between Howard and Bryn Mawr.

I'd scale 147 frequencies back based on how many riders switch to red but I highly doubt enough people would actually switch over to warrant discontinuing express service to downtown. If you're around foster then 147 would probably still beat the red line downtown even after fully being repaired. Plus people that are too impatient or lazy to walk to Michigan from state might cry over losing direct Michigan Ave service. Same applies in 146 territory up north since it's a bit further from the red line at that point. 134, 135, 136 ridership probably wouldn't sustain keeping them though

[Rail Introvert]

17 hours ago, Busjack said:

On second thought, run it only between Howard and Bryn Mawr.

Why not just have 151 Sheridan run to/from Howard during all service hours.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Rail Introvert said:

Why not just have 151 Sheridan run to/from Howard during all service hours.

 

They used to do that. I'm not sure why they moved the terminal from Howard to Devon/Ashland, unless they thought both 147 and 151 were too much.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

 

They used to do that. I'm not sure why they moved the terminal from Howard to Devon/Ashland, unless they thought both 147 and 151 were too much.

Probably was too much with red being so close. You only need one local next to it. 

 

3 hours ago, Rail Introvert said:

Why not just have 151 Sheridan run to/from Howard during all service hours.

Probably figure 147 is enough being a local. I doubt someone's gonna come that far north from say diversey on the bus. Plus 151 has enough issues staying in time with just going to Devon. I saw someone 96 minutes down one time 

[renardo870]

54 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Probably was too much with red being so close. You only need one local next to it. 

 

Probably figure 147 is enough being a local. I doubt someone's gonna come that far north from say diversey on the bus. Plus 151 has enough issues staying in time with just going to Devon. I saw someone 96 minutes down one time 

96 minutes???? 😱😱

[strictures]

8 hours ago, artthouwill said:

At one time,  the 36 had short turns at Broadway and Waveland.   Those trips were operated by the Limits garage, which was located at 2664 North Clark.  Obviously one benefit from this was cycling some byses between Addison and downtown quicker * at least in the 36).  But as you stated,  bike lanes have created havoc, not only in the north side but downtown as well.  Both Clark and Dearborn used to be three lanes in each direction,  creating nice traffic flow even during the rush hour.   Bur now both streets have lost a lane each to a bike lane  which creates gridlock, especially for buses.   Both routes suck as an alternative to the Red Line  so it's either the Red,  Brown or Purple Line for me from now on.  Imagine waiting over 30 minutes for one bus from either the 22 or the 36 to come.  That happened to me  PRE PANDEMIC.   I vowed it would never happen again.   From that point forward,  it's a walk to the nearest Brown or Red Line station.   I will not take the 22 or 36 again downtown from Lincoln Park or Lakeview unless i actually have a bus within sight.  I would not trust the Ventra App or any Tracker for those two routes.   If it's not the 146 or 147, it's the L, plain and simple. 

I flat out refuse to ride the red Line anymore.  It's either dangerous or disgusting, what with the homeless laying down over multiple seats, creeps smoking all the time & the crime! Believe it or not, I find the green Line on the South Side far safer & nicer than the Red. I often will take the 22 from Devon all the way downtown, if I have the time, as I don't have to transfer to a bus on Devon going east to Broadway to catch the 147.   Plus I don't want to get stuck on a train that gets stopped somewhere & then I'm late for an appointment. 

[YoungBusLover]

23 hours ago, Busjack said:

Other things to consider is that they are concurrent between Division and Diversey, and I don't know how it fits into my "take the L" scenario, but 36 is within 1/2 block of the L from Wilson to Granville.

The recent articles an the Ashland extension that Ashland hasn't gone north of Clark-Southport since 1912 shows how a lot of the system needs to be reviewed. Also, technically, it would have been the North Ashland streetcar, as the Ashland bridge was not opened until 1936.

22 hours ago, artthouwill said:

At one time,  the 36 had short turns at Broadway and Waveland.   Those trips were operated by the Limits garage, which was located at 2664 North Clark.  Obviously one benefit from this was cycling some byses between Addison and downtown quicker * at least in the 36).  But as you stated,  bike lanes have created havoc, not only in the north side but downtown as well.  Both Clark and Dearborn used to be three lanes in each direction,  creating nice traffic flow even during the rush hour.   Bur now both streets have lost a lane each to a bike lane  which creates gridlock, especially for buses.   Both routes suck as an alternative to the Red Line  so it's either the Red,  Brown or Purple Line for me from now on.  Imagine waiting over 30 minutes for one bus from either the 22 or the 36 to come.  That happened to me  PRE PANDEMIC.   I vowed it would never happen again.   From that point forward,  it's a walk to the nearest Brown or Red Line station.   I will not take the 22 or 36 again downtown from Lincoln Park or Lakeview unless i actually have a bus within sight.  I would not trust the Ventra App or any Tracker for those two routes.   If it's not the 146 or 147, it's the L, plain and simple. 

Call me crazy but should the 22/36 even go into the downtown area anymore since they run practically parallel to many other feeders besides each other coming from the northside?  There has to be another way to supplement service that is beneficial for everyone. I don't know if short turns at North Ave makes sense for either one or let alone Clark/Lake as it is rail station transfer hub in a sense. What are the weekly rush period ridership numbers heading back NB from Lasalle street Metra Station?  Seeing all these buses just piled together during the morning rush on one side of both routes is a bit troubling to me. It should not be that way at all. There diffidently needs to be a review on this.