MetroShadow Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 The Railroad District has begun the process of possibly renaming the District's lines to reflect regional connectivity and legibility (and the absorption of the UP Lines). Two options are proposed in this exercise: Location-based design - focusing on both colors by Downtown Station along with cardinal directions (N, S, W) Moving towards a regional rail model by M + number (think pre-2011 SEPTA) with the formula moving West to East by Downtown Station. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 I figured Metra would wind up renaming the three UP Lines, but renaming all the lines might be a little extreme. With the exception of the BNSF and the UP, none of the other freight lines exist. I believe the current naming system is fine. People can learn it. But if Metra is so adamant about changing the name of all the lines, then name them according to their downtown Terminals. For instance. Ogluvie North Ogluvie NW, and Ogluvie West. The LaSalle South * and LaSalle Beverly) and the LaSalle Southwest ( when SWS switches from Union Station to LaSalle station. Then you can have Union Fox Lake, Union Elgin, Union Antioch, Union Aurora, Union Joliet, and Union Manhattan. I didn't choose direction to keep conLocal. down.. I personally like Metra Electric, but in keeping with the pattern, you can have Millennium South Chicago, Millennium Main Lune, and Millennium Blue Island as well as Millennium Kensington Local. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 I like @artthouwill's suggestion, although I think the most likely scenario will be a version of the cardinal direction map, where each terminal gets assigned a letter (maybe CUS gets 2 for north and south?) and then each line gets a number. Or potentially each major service pattern gets a number, like B1 & B2 for RID to Joliet and RID Beverly Branch. I'd be surprised if they move to a generic M1-M14, since SEPTA moved away from that scheme and almost every other commuter/regional rail with 3 or more lines identifies them by either end of line station, area or significant destination. Now that I think about it, simply renaming everything to end of line also feels like a most likely scenario (although I'd be curious to see how they handle Joliet) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, artthouwill said: I figured Metra would wind up renaming the three UP Lines, but renaming all the lines might be a little extreme. With the exception of the BNSF and the UP, none of the other freight lines exist. I believe the current naming system is fine. People can learn it. But if Metra is so adamant about changing the name of all the lines, then name them according to their downtown Terminals. For instance. Ogluvie North Ogluvie NW, and Ogluvie West. The LaSalle South * and LaSalle Beverly) and the LaSalle Southwest ( when SWS switches from Union Station to LaSalle station. Then you can have Union Fox Lake, Union Elgin, Union Antioch, Union Aurora, Union Joliet, and Union Manhattan. I didn't choose direction to keep conLocal. down.. I personally like Metra Electric, but in keeping with the pattern, you can have Millennium South Chicago, Millennium Main Lune, and Millennium Blue Island as well as Millennium Kensington Local. I like the idea - but with a number and the destination intact with the origin station, with Joliet being an exception (below) 8 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said: I like @artthouwill's suggestion, although I think the most likely scenario will be a version of the cardinal direction map, where each terminal gets assigned a letter (maybe CUS gets 2 for north and south?) and then each line gets a number. Or potentially each major service pattern gets a number, like B1 & B2 for RID to Joliet and RID Beverly Branch. I'd be surprised if they move to a generic M1-M14, since SEPTA moved away from that scheme and almost every other commuter/regional rail with 3 or more lines identifies them by either end of line station, area or significant destination. Now that I think about it, simply renaming everything to end of line also feels like a most likely scenario (although I'd be curious to see how they handle Joliet) Since RID and HC are shared, I'd wander with L1 (LaSalle-Joliet), L2 (LaSalle-Beverly) and Ux (Union-Joliet via Lockport). SWS would eventually move to L4 (from U/S4) once CREATE and that connection is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 6 hours ago, MetroShadow said: 2 years later. and giving credit to @Busjack: Metra has started a project to rename every line in the District. Announcement on Metra's website As I did. But aside from renaming the 3 lines, I don't care for any other of Metra's proposals, 1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said: simply renaming everything to end of line also feels like a most likely scenario (although I'd be curious to see how they handle Joliet) seems to make more sense to me. The catch in my mind is what to do with lines with short trips, i.e. the Kenosha line only to Waukegan, Highland Park or Winnetka, or the Fox Lake line only to Lake Forest (the station itself should be renamed Lake Forest West). But I find the Survey Monkey way too long to be worth the effort, a color system would conflict with the L system on a unified RTA/MMA map, and a number system would be too much like the confusing NY subway system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 I think Metra ripped off their ideas from the Paris suburban rail system. Leave all the name as they are now, but sort of go back to the original names for the three UP lines, Kenosha Division, Crystal lake Division & West Chicago or Geneva Division! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfaringrob Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 I suspected they might attempt to rename the UP lines, but this is overkill. I don't see how M1, M2 etc. or the N1, W2, etc. naming is more useful, memorable, or easier to understand. With both alternatives, you can't look at the legend and then look at the map to find the line quickly. Good labels become a requirement. You have to look at this alphabet soup of a key and then do a lot more reading and scanning to figure it out. The numbers may as well be randomly assigned, and the lines get lost in each other closer to the loop. I don't see how making them all the same color (or few colors) helps discern them on a map, especially when the same color lines run through the same stations. Color is a useful aid at stations and segments with multiple lines. You can spot the yellow dot from a distance and say "oh good, UP NW that way." With so many lines, there is likely to be some proximity or redundancy especially between the CTA and Metra, but that can be handled in other ways such as line thickness, outlines, or other cartographic effects. The naming itself just seems like it was done from 30,000 feet. Why is the northwest line considered north and not west? It completely severs any connection to geography and history. How is that more memorable? I thought they wanted to have fewer lines with redundant names like "north" and "west," and here they go making more redundancies with fewer points of distinction. At the very least, NW should stay NW and SW should stay SW. This would give them more flexibility to make the others unique as well - fewer lines vying to be the "North Line" or "West Line." They could be more creative than letters with numbers. It seems like in wanting to make the system easier to navigate for infrequent riders, they are forgetting that they also tend to know them by their current names and colors, and switching them to mere codes could cause a lot of confusion and even poorer memorability. "I used to ride the Milwaukee West line downtown; now it's the W something and I'm not sure where it goes." These are the sentiments I'm imagining. I don't buy that renaming of any kind will lead to mode shift if that's their argument here. Adjusting the names is fine if it improves clarity and memorability, but these are not clear nor memorable. Amtrak does well with this: if they had named the Borealis the H7 or something like that, it would have less of an identity. I would have forgotten the letter and number combination overnight -- it becomes just an ephemeral identifier, a gate number, an auditing code, not a train for people. They need real, durable identities. I would favor lines named after historical events or geographic features - the Prairie Line, the Glacial Line, the Lakeshore North. Etc. This is exactly what London Overground just did - added well-researched and local names and colors to its system to make it easier to discern and navigate. We would move in the opposite direction with these proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 This reminds me when CTA President Kruesi once proposed changing the route numbers to " sumplify" things for the visitors, as uf renaming the L routes after colors wasn't good enough. Leave the names alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, artthouwill said: This reminds me when CTA President Kruesi once proposed changing the route numbers to " sumplify" things for the visitors, as uf renaming the L routes after colors wasn't good enough. Leave the names alone. Except that, as I indicated 2 years ago and Metra said yesterday, it won't have the right to use the name "UP." It's sort of like if King Dr. were labelled CMC and Cottage Grove labelled CCRC. In effect, NY had a similar situation when Fifth Ave. Bus Co. became MBSTOA, but now it's all NYCT. Nonetheless, I agree with those that say that only the UP lines need to be renamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, Busjack said: Except that, as I indicated 2 years ago and Metra said yesterday, it won't have the right to use the name "UP." It's sort of like if King Dr. were labelled CMC and Cottage Grove labelled CCRC. In effect, NY had a similar situation when Fifth Ave. Bus Co. became MBSTOA, but now it's all NYCT. Nonetheless, I agree with those that say that only the UP lines need to be renamed. I'm in agreement with the UP lines being changed. I expected that. I'm not in agreement with changing the names of the other lines. Those who are new to the system or occasional users of Metra can learn how to use the system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Busjack said: seems to make more sense to me. The catch in my mind is what to do with lines with short trips, i.e. the Kenosha line only to Waukegan, Highland Park or Winnetka, or the Fox Lake line only to Lake Forest (the station itself should be renamed Lake Forest West). Looking at the other agencies that specifically use end-of-line naming style: MBTA doesn't really do short trips, but for ones they do, both the common short trip and regular terminus are part of the name. This isn't consistent though (e.g. Fitchburg line has some trips ending at Littleton, but its not the Fitchburg/Littleton line) SEPTA is like MBTA, but more consistent LIRR uses entire lines as short trips for other lines and for the ones where they don't, they don't make a mention of calling them out (e.g. Massapequa trips on the Babylon line) Metra will probably have to do some sort of hybridization, I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfaringrob Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 It would certainly help with route identification if the service patterns had names separate from the routes in some way. Ex. a Lakeshore North (UP-N) Line as the corridor and line color, with Kenosha Express, Waukegan Express, Lakeshore North Local, etc as the services, sharing the same color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 On 3/11/2025 at 8:05 PM, wayfaringrob said: It would certainly help with route identification if the service patterns had names separate from the routes in some way. Ex. a Lakeshore North (UP-N) Line as the corridor and line color, with Kenosha Express, Waukegan Express, Lakeshore North Local, etc as the services, sharing the same color. Metra LakeShore Line (UP-N), Metra Kaneland (UP-W), and Metra McHenry (UP-NW) names might be a good start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 Latest CST article describing a (better?) naming convention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 North Shore Line does makes a lot of sense since the C&NW & the long defunct Chicago, North Shore & Milwaukee R's Shore Line shared the right of way from Wilmette north & you can still see remnants of the platform pillars were the old electric line stations were, now the Green Bay Trail bike & walking path. The C,NS &M abandoned the Shore Line in 1953. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 Trains Are Awesome has a video which intelligently discusses this subject. He has nailed down the 3 main issues: From which station does the train depart? Stop skipping patterns Branches He's correct though that something like "take any eastbound bus to the Metra Electric" doesn't make much sense, especially to a tourist, and there isn't a good way to get from Arlington Heights to Naperville except through downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfaringrob Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Spotted in this video, 4:29 Looks like they've made a decision...one that makes a messy situation messier, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 1 hour ago, wayfaringrob said: Spotted in this video, 4:29 Looks like they've made a decision...one that makes a messy situation messier, IMO. My first thought is that this is dumb. Then I remember that people ( not necessarily regular passengers but could be) actually voted for this ( allegedly). I certainly thought incorporating the direction and the downtown train terminal into the name would have been the most logical option I suppose the vast majority of Metra users and potential Metra users are only concerned about one Metra line which is the line closest to home . What if you live near TWO Metra lines? Personally i didn't think the names of the lines needed to be changed at all, but Thom vehemently disagreed with me . He thinks the older people are stubborn and resistant to change . I feel like it's crazy to change the names because a few people won't or can't learn a line's name is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfaringrob Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 4 hours ago, artthouwill said: My first thought is that this is dumb. Then I remember that people ( not necessarily regular passengers but could be) actually voted for this ( allegedly). I certainly thought incorporating the direction and the downtown train terminal into the name would have been the most logical option I suppose the vast majority of Metra users and potential Metra users are only concerned about one Metra line which is the line closest to home . What if you live near TWO Metra lines? Personally i didn't think the names of the lines needed to be changed at all, but Thom vehemently disagreed with me . He thinks the older people are stubborn and resistant to change . I feel like it's crazy to change the names because a few people won't or can't learn a line's name is insane. Yes. I can agree that the current system is generally confusing to the newcomer, but I don't see how this helps. In this particular scheme, the letter is almost meaningless and amounts to clutter. Just numbering them without the letter would be more distinguishable, but I hated their single color idea. I think this bows too much to "new riders," which at this point are more of an aspiration. Is the intention to lose local legibility and history in favor of this supposed rider? I'm not sure if names of lines are a ridership factor. Color, maybe, especially with the prevalence of phone apps that make CTA and Metra lines appear the same. I think there is a renaming and coloring solution that would make a lot of people happy, but letters and numbers isn't it. As a first attempt at a compromise between that type of scheme and what's being proposed... UP-N == Ogilvie North Line (OG-N) UP-NW == Ogilvie Northwest Line (OG-NW) UP-W == Ogilvie West Line (OG-W) MD-N == Union North Line (U-N) NCS == Union Northwest Line (U-NW) MD-W == Union West Line (U-W) BNSF == Union BNSF Line (Union BNSF) HC == Union Canal Line (U-C) SWS == Union Southwest Line (U-SW); LaSalle Southwest Line after move to LaSalle (L-SW) RI == LaSalle South Line (L-S), with Beverly branch (LS-B) ME == Illinois Line (I), with Illinois-Blue Island (I-BI) and Illinois-South Chicago (I-SC) branches. though, under this scheme, Union Station and Union Pacific are potentially confusing entities. I don't think this is a reason to ditch names and distinct colors altogether, though. I think more distinct and localized or historically/geographically meaningful names than these would do even better, personally, but it appears Metra has no respect for public history and memory going forward. I'm a bit troubled that this is being done in-house...for one, I would expect better and more locally-informed options, but at the same time, perhaps a consultant would be able to approach it with knowledge of general wayfinding principles, authentic community engagement, and so on. If fares became better integrated with CTA, I don't see a problem with making Metra's lines color coded (forest, golden, lime, periwinkle, maroon, silver, lake, navy, etc). I can already here proponents of the new scheme saying that "OG-N" and "U-N" are confusing! ... but their proposed Letter Number scheme is even less helpful. Do an N1 and N4 train terminate at the same station? The naming can't help you. Currently, it can--admittedly, only IF you know that UP trains go to Ogilvie and all others but RI/ME go to Union...but that's more than N1 and N4 will tell you. Just a mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted Sunday at 02:58 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 02:58 PM 16 hours ago, wayfaringrob said: Yes. I can agree that the current system is generally confusing to the newcomer, but I don't see how this helps. In this particular scheme, the letter is almost meaningless and amounts to clutter. Just numbering them without the letter would be more distinguishable, but I hated their single color idea. I think this bows too much to "new riders," which at this point are more of an aspiration. Is the intention to lose local legibility and history in favor of this supposed rider? I'm not sure if names of lines are a ridership factor. Color, maybe, especially with the prevalence of phone apps that make CTA and Metra lines appear the same. I think there is a renaming and coloring solution that would make a lot of people happy, but letters and numbers isn't it. As a first attempt at a compromise between that type of scheme and what's being proposed... UP-N == Ogilvie North Line (OG-N) UP-NW == Ogilvie Northwest Line (OG-NW) UP-W == Ogilvie West Line (OG-W) MD-N == Union North Line (U-N) NCS == Union Northwest Line (U-NW) MD-W == Union West Line (U-W) BNSF == Union BNSF Line (Union BNSF) HC == Union Canal Line (U-C) SWS == Union Southwest Line (U-SW); LaSalle Southwest Line after move to LaSalle (L-SW) RI == LaSalle South Line (L-S), with Beverly branch (LS-B) ME == Illinois Line (I), with Illinois-Blue Island (I-BI) and Illinois-South Chicago (I-SC) branches. though, under this scheme, Union Station and Union Pacific are potentially confusing entities. I don't think this is a reason to ditch names and distinct colors altogether, though. I think more distinct and localized or historically/geographically meaningful names than these would do even better, personally, but it appears Metra has no respect for public history and memory going forward. I'm a bit troubled that this is being done in-house...for one, I would expect better and more locally-informed options, but at the same time, perhaps a consultant would be able to approach it with knowledge of general wayfinding principles, authentic community engagement, and so on. If fares became better integrated with CTA, I don't see a problem with making Metra's lines color coded (forest, golden, lime, periwinkle, maroon, silver, lake, navy, etc). I can already here proponents of the new scheme saying that "OG-N" and "U-N" are confusing! ... but their proposed Letter Number scheme is even less helpful. Do an N1 and N4 train terminate at the same station? The naming can't help you. Currently, it can--admittedly, only IF you know that UP trains go to Ogilvie and all others but RI/ME go to Union...but that's more than N1 and N4 will tell you. Just a mess. I get your point of organizing names by station especially since all of UP went to Ogilvie but I'd name based off destination since at Union SWS and HC both can be looked at as "Southwest", BNSF and MD-W both go west and I'm not sure if someone that's not a rail fan would be able to tell which one is BNSF. I'd do: SWS- Union-Orland Park RI - Lasalle- Blue Island/Joliet; LaSalle-Beverly HC - Union- Summit/Joliet UP-N - Ogilvie-Lake County UP-W - Ogilvie-Elburn UP-NW - Ogilvie-Harvard NCS - Union-Antioch MD-W - Union-Elgin MD-N - Union-Fox Lake ME - Millennium- University Park; Millennium-Blue Island; Millennium-South Chicago BNSF - Union- Aurora. This is the most "straight to the point" way I can think of as far as telling people where to board the train to whatever suburb they're going to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted Sunday at 03:16 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 03:16 PM 16 hours ago, wayfaringrob said: I can already here proponents of the new scheme saying that "OG-N" and "U-N" are confusing! ... but their proposed Letter Number scheme is even less helpful. Do an N1 and N4 train terminate at the same station? The naming can't help you. Currently, it can--admittedly, only IF you know that UP trains go to Ogilvie and all others but RI/ME go to Union...but that's more than N1 and N4 will tell you. Just a mess. Heck I'd think if you just went by number and took out the letter it would be less confusing. 🤣😅 I feel a letter only works if it's a first initial of the downtown terminal like you hinted at cause at least I can say "I gotta go to Ogilvie for O3". This I STILL have to figure where N1 is AND as I mentioned in my other reply you have multiple lines that look as if they could be considered the west line etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkmn Posted Sunday at 05:49 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 05:49 PM Just my 2 cents, but I believe that using a name that briefly describes a region that the line serves would be the least convoluted way of naming lines. For example: BNSF: Western Suburbs Service UP-W: DuPage County Service Electric Mainline: Southlands Service Southwest Service: Southwest Service MD-N: Lake County Service NCS: Buffalo Grove Service MD-W: Fox Valley Service UP-NW: McHenry County Service RI: Tinley Service RI Suburban: Beverly Service Electric Blue Island: West Pullman Service Electric South Chicago: South Chicago Service UP-N: North Shore Service HC: Canal Service Realistically the current names are perfectly fine, my only wish is for more distinction between the metra electric branches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted Sunday at 07:39 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 07:39 PM 1 hour ago, Elkmn said: Just my 2 cents, but I believe that using a name that briefly describes a region that the line serves would be the least convoluted way of naming lines. For example: BNSF: Western Suburbs Service UP-W: DuPage County Service Electric Mainline: Southlands Service Southwest Service: Southwest Service MD-N: Lake County Service NCS: Buffalo Grove Service MD-W: Fox Valley Service UP-NW: McHenry County Service RI: Tinley Service RI Suburban: Beverly Service Electric Blue Island: West Pullman Service Electric South Chicago: South Chicago Service UP-N: North Shore Service HC: Canal Service Realistically the current names are perfectly fine, my only wish is for more distinction between the metra electric branches. Some of these are a little vague considering UP-W and BNSF go to western suburbs, BNSF also serves Naperville which is also DuPage. McHenry is a part time terminal, most of the trains go to Harvard. Didn't realize MD-N also goes through lake county so I'll rectify mine with: UP-N: Ogilvie-Wisconsin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted Sunday at 07:56 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 07:56 PM I know this whole mess started because Metra wanted to rename the Union Pacific Lines. That would be simple. But someone decided to complicate matters and came up with the crazy idea that ALL of the Metra Lines needed to be renamed. Just renaming the Union Pacific Lines to Oglivie is such a simple fix Using numbers may cause some confusion as most numbers are also CTA routes that serve downtown with the 1 and 7 serving Union Station. The Train station and the general direction of the line should suffice with the VBSF retaining its name until they decide differently. In that case it could be Union Central or Union West Central. Again, the best solution is to only change the name of the Union Pacific Lines and leave everything else alone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkmn Posted Sunday at 08:56 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 08:56 PM 1 hour ago, Sam92 said: Some of these are a little vague considering UP-W and BNSF go to western suburbs, BNSF also serves Naperville which is also DuPage. McHenry is a part time terminal, most of the trains go to Harvard. Didn't realize MD-N also goes through lake county so I'll rectify mine with: UP-N: Ogilvie-Wisconsin I wasn't exactly sure on what to name the lines. Some lines like the mdn and the sws don't serve anywhere particularly notable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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