Fiscal Cliff (and taxes and related stuff)

[Busjack]

Since the NITA bill does not cover funding, I thought it needed separate treatment. ABC7 just said there is a proposal for:

• An increase in tolls on the Illinois Tollway in the Chicago area
• A rideshare tax in the 6-county area
• An increase in the Chicago Real Estate Transfer Tax

But Kam Buckner said this has to go through the process and certainly isn't final.

Update: NBC Chicago:  Chicago transit plan that would raise rideshare taxes, tolls blasted by critics

[Busjack]

Through much hard work, I finally found this version of the NITA bill, which is HB 3438 Senate Amendment 002. A good explanation is in Capitol News Illinois.

• The main thing that's causing the stink is that when the 2008 RTA bill raised the RTA sales tax in the collar counties from 0.25% to 0.75%, 0.25% went to the counties for infrastructure purposes. The counties spent it, but this bill says NITA should keep it.
• Correcting my last post, the RETT now imposed in the City of Chicago would be imposed throughout the 6 counties.
• 10% tax on rideshares
• A 50 cent increase per toll ("Transit Support Fee; may not exceed $1/day; can have a low-income fee reduction plan) .
• A 6 cents tax per kWh at public EV charging stations (this is under the "Electric Vehicle Charging Fee Act").

 

 

[Jstange059]

So yeah, about that transit funding… yeah, we don’t seem to be getting it…

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, Jstange059 said:

So yeah, about that transit funding… yeah, we don’t seem to be getting it…

Yes. The Sun-Times article says a version passed the Senate but never got to the House floor. Besides being last minute, they substituted a $150 tax on deliveries instead of the toll fee and 0.25% sales tax diversion. but that didn't go over. either. Now it will take a special session and a 60% vote.

[EasyMoney]

This mean we getting laid off pretty Soon ?

[Adam Hubbard]

IT'S GAME OVER FOR CTA, METRA AND PACE BUS.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, EasyMoney said:

This mean we getting laid off pretty Soon ?

Not yet.  The state legislature can still be called into special session and get something done.  If they don't fix the budget shortfall at that time, then cuts will happen.  But if appears that CTA. Metra, and Pace as we know it will undergo some radical changes as a condition of receiving the necessary funding required to maintain current levels of service.   Can the Illinois General Assembly be trusted?

SEPTA  is a state agency in Pennsylvania that operates regional transit for Southeast Pennsylvania including the city of Philadelphia.   They are facing a similar budget crisis, but their state legislature has chosen bot to act.  Therefore the first round of service cuts are scheduled for September and more cuts in 2026 if there is still inaction by the Pennsylvania state legislature.    

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, EasyMoney said:

This mean we getting laid off pretty Soon ?

As   @artthouwill said. Also, the Covid money doesn't run out until the end of this year.

1 hour ago, Adam Hubbard said:

IT'S GAME OVER FOR CTA, METRA AND PACE BUS.

Given all reports that the governance part has enough support to pass, while the trade names may survive for the operating divisions, the current mismanagement won't, as the current boards will be gone on Feb. 1, 2026, unless the General Assembly  is totally paralyzed. And good riddance to them. 

Where the "rubber meets the road" (as Firestone used to say) is that the cry was "the state should give transit $1.5 billion, but the state doesn't have it, so the question is whether it gets extracted from Uber riders, people who order food through Doordash, drivers on the Tollway, real estate transfer taxes, or retail occupation taxes passed on to the consumer. But we went through all this in 2008 and somehow the legislature finally acted. At least this time, the legislators are not acting like stooges.

[Adam Hubbard]

These severe, scary service Cuts will be moving forward No matter what.

[Sam92]

32 minutes ago, Busjack said:

As   @artthouwill said. Also, the Covid money doesn't run out until the end of this year.

Given all reports that the governance part has enough support to pass, while the trade names may survive for the operating divisions, the current mismanagement won't, as the current boards will be gone on Feb. 1, 2026, unless the General Assembly  is totally paralyzed. And good riddance to them. 

Where the "rubber meets the road" (as Firestone used to say) is that the cry was "the state should give transit $1.5 billion, but the state doesn't have it, so the question is whether it gets extracted from Uber riders, people who order food through Doordash, drivers on the Tollway, real estate transfer taxes, or retail occupation taxes passed on to the consumer. But we went through all this in 2008 and somehow the legislature finally acted. At least this time, the legislators are not acting like stooges.

I remember this happened back in high school, even discussing how we'd get to school with our teachers (the 2007 doomsday) but can't remember if it took an emergency session like this is going to but since they had those wild cuts planned I'm guessing it did and got passed like in October/November? 

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, Sam92 said:

I remember this happened back in high school, even discussing how we'd get to school with our teachers (the 2007 doomsday) but can't remember if it took an emergency session like this is going to but since they had those wild cuts planned I'm guessing it did and got passed like in October/November? 

That's essentially correct, and I'm also sure it is documented on this forum. That was also when Blago said he wouldn't sign any tax increase but eventually did, but used the amendatory veto to give free rides to seniors.

I see local TV news is engaged in exactly the same fear mongering.

[MetroShadow]

18 hours ago, EasyMoney said:

This mean we getting laid off pretty Soon ?

 

17 hours ago, Adam Hubbard said:

IT'S GAME OVER FOR CTA, METRA AND PACE BUS.

 

14 hours ago, Adam Hubbard said:

These severe, scary service Cuts will be moving forward No matter what.

We don't know for sure. Like the Pennsylvania Republican-controlled Senate (as mentioned above, PA is bipartisan and bicameral), they've chosen not to act. As asinine as the ILGA can be/is/perpetually, there's still plenty of room...until the Fall Session.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, MetroShadow said:

As asinine as the ILGA can be/is/perpetually, there's still plenty of room...until the Fall Session.

• My prediction, FWIW, is that they will be back around mid-July. The veto session is probably too late, given the budget calendar under current law.
• I don't know if comments such as @EasyMoney's are being fomented by garage supervision stirring up its own agenda. I'm also thinking about the RTA, after making the statement "We are grateful for the months of work of the General Assembly toward both funding and reform for the region’s transit system. It’s clear that many in both the House and Senate support transit, and our intention is to build on that shared support to identify the funding needed to avoid devastating cuts and disruption for everyone in Northeast Illinois." the RTA restarted its doomsday commercials.
• In this case, I would say the opposite of asinine. The legislature overcame the lobbying for the Pace board supported legislative mess of the union bill, and came up with something much better than what I expected.

[jajuan]

I think even if though they didn't act at the present moment, they still will try to do something. All the indications they gave consistently leading into the end of spring session was that they weren't going to just dump money in without any reforms to the governance of each of the service boards. They seem to have gotten the governance part of it pinned down. Now they can get to work on ways to fund what they want the RTA's potential replacement to do with Chicago area transit going forward beyond the convoluted mess that the current RTA as currently structured in relation to CTA, Metra and Pace currently are. All the different driver unions that Pace alone has to make agreements with kind of displays how convoluted operating transit in Chicago and its suburbs has become. 

On the SEPTA front, it's actually sad the Pennsylvania state Senate is refusing to act because the records seem to indicate that SEPTA is more efficient in how much actual transit it gets from each dollar spent compared to CTA, Metra and Pace.

[MetroShadow]

I'm surprised it took until 4pm 3:25pm to craft this statement.

[Busjack]

33 minutes ago, MetroShadow said:

m surprised it took until 4pm 3:25pm to craft this statement.

It didn't say anything other than to allay the fears of those who were whipped up into thinking that there would be cuts next week. Probably, headlines like  Transit agencies prepare for service cuts as state fails to pass funding bill with pictures of Pace buses forced Pace's hand.

Now, if Pace wants to conserve cash. it should tell Jarrett Walker no more deal, as NITA would have responsibility for service design.

BTW:

• I didn't expect much of a statement from the transit agencies, other than of the type noted, as they are creations of the state legislature and their fates are pretty well sealed.
• You certainly won't hear anything from CTA, except maybe threats. But maybe this ends Brandon Johnson's attempt to install lackeys at CTA.

[Sam92]

6 hours ago, jajuan said:

I think even if though they didn't act at the present moment, they still will try to do something. All the indications they gave consistently leading into the end of spring session was that they weren't going to just dump money in without any reforms to the governance of each of the service boards. They seem to have gotten the governance part of it pinned down. Now they can get to work on ways to fund what they want the RTA's potential replacement to do with Chicago area transit going forward beyond the convoluted mess that the current RTA as currently structured in relation to CTA, Metra and Pace currently are. All the different driver unions that Pace alone has to make agreements with kind of displays how convoluted operating transit in Chicago and its suburbs has become. 

On the SEPTA front, it's actually sad the Pennsylvania state Senate is refusing to act because the records seem to indicate that SEPTA is more efficient in how much actual transit it gets from each dollar spent compared to CTA, Metra and Pace.

Do you think SEPTA might have a last minute chance like us? I know they're also running out of money but did they just 0% not do anything compared to us? I know SEPTA isn't exactly a small agency so I'm surprised a possible ripple effect isn't making them act

[MetroShadow]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Do you think SEPTA might have a last minute chance like us? I know they're also running out of money but did they just 0% not do anything compared to us? I know SEPTA isn't exactly a small agency so I'm surprised a possible ripple effect isn't making them act

Throw in PRT (Pittsburgh Regional Transit), formerly the Port Authority, and many of the smaller agencies, and it is really the entire State's funding at risk.

It really depends on how Gov. Shapiro is willing to negotiate (more or less the reverse), considering how critical every agency in the state is to its operations.

[strictures]

13 hours ago, Busjack said:

• You certainly won't hear anything from CTA, except maybe threats. But maybe this ends Brandon Johnson's attempt to install lackeys at CTA.

Nothing will end Johnson's attempts to have his lackeys run the CTA except his defeat in the next election!

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

Nothing will end Johnson's attempts to have his lackeys run the CTA except his defeat in the next election!

He gets some BITA appointments, but not control of any board. Read yjr proposed bill.

[Busjack]

In connection with what I said above, the Fran Spielman said

Quote

No matter what taxes lawmakers ultimately land on, Johnson is likely to lose control over Chicago’s mass transit system.

There was general agreement about a reformed governance structure empowering a new Northern Illinois Transit Authority to set unified fares, allow for easier transfers and assume capital planning responsibilities.

Not that he ever had control.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

.. Plus folks keep pressing against that panic button regarding what the state might do when we don't even know what the veto session holds. Yes, it's going to be a bit tougher because of the higher vote threshold, but the Illinois legislature has still shown a willingness to address the issue. ... 

Now getting back to Illinois, the legislature's clear and consistent position has been that cracking down and reforming the governance of Chicago area transit had to be a part of any solution that they hash out. They've hammered out a direction on the governance part. They just need to get it passed into law. Now I'm ready to give them space to attempt to crack the financial part and see if they can accomplish it within the span of the veto session before I hit the panic button just yet.

Seeing that this got scattered all over the place, and that I split the RTA abolition and money threads, I thought I wouyld bring this back here with 2 additional observations. First, they could come to an agreement and the governor could call a special session. Second is this Rich Miller column: "Way too much fell through the cracks at the Statehouse." Although mostly discussing an energy bill, he also said "People were spread too thin across too many major items (including mass transit reform and the state budget), and, as a consequence, way too much fell through the cracks." (There was other stuff like a tax sale bill, that was like 50 years overdue,) But as Miller said, "Human beings tend to wait until the last minute to do things. But the leaders need to start enforcing earlier deadlines for giant issues like this energy proposal so they can deal with other time-sensitive things (the budget and revenues, for instance) at the end. Or maybe the other way around. Far too many major issues were left to May 31st. And that procrastination led to problems ..."

Same thing with the transit bill. It looked like the path was the MMA bill, but the unions and the existing bureaucracy was pushing for a rival joke bill, and there were the funding before reform advocates and other factions. Then out of somewhere, the much better NITA bill arose with about 3 days to go, and there were the "suburbs are screwing the city" and "the city is screwing the collar counties" factions, but those seemed satisfied, given that the governor would be given the balance of power and the right to name the first chairperson. But then there was the dispute on taxes and tolls, which couldn't be resolved in 24 hours. The other thing is similar to Miller's point is that the deadline for committee action for all bills was supposed to be May 1, but this one kept being extended, and both Houses resorted to stripping other bills. Same old s---, but that's how the GA operates.