New Flyer 1000s

[qwantae]

After the swap between NP and 103, the last 69 flyers will go to Chicago and 77th with an odd and even swap between 1961-2028. FG will not be receiving any new buses at all due to the novas being rehabbed now.

How about some of Early NFs like 103rd's and NP's First batch NFs will go to Archer and Forest Glen so all the garages will have NFs, then Forest Glen Novas go to NP and Archer's early Novas like 6500s, not 6600s go to 103rd when my poor 4400s are gone.

Other thing, I like the 900s Hybrids the best NFs, I wish that CTA would just make the last orders like from 1700s to 2028 as Hybrids. I spotted #902 on #82 Kimball at Belmont Blue Line Station yesterday, I barely see those around.

[Buslover88]

How about some of Early NFs like 103rd's and NP's First batch NFs will go to Archer and Forest Glen so all the garages will have NFs, then Forest Glen Novas go to NP and Archer's early Novas like 6500s, not 6600s go to 103rd when my poor 4400s are gone.

How about not? Archer and FG don't need NFs (yet), epescially Archer. FG will be getting some soon enough, I think, to start replacing it's 6000s. Also, would this actually be justifed, other than where you just want buses to go?

I like the 900s Hybrids the best NFs, I wish that CTA would just make the last orders like from 1700s to 2028 as Hybrids. I spotted #902 on #82 Kimball at Belmont Blue Line Station yesterday, I barely see those around.

According to some members, the CTA is having a bit of a rough time with those 900s. They keep breaking down, so I disagree with you where you say the present orders as hybrids.

[Busjack]

Other thing, I like the 900s Hybrids the best NFs, I wish that CTA would just make the last orders like from 1700s to 2028 as Hybrids. I spotted #902 on #82 Kimball at Belmont Blue Line Station yesterday, I barely see those around.

According to some members, the CTA is having a bit of a rough time with those 900s. They keep breaking down, so I disagree with you where you say the present orders as hybrids.

Besides that, reports are that up to about 1910 have been received, so how are you going to make them hybrids (unless you intend to scrap powertrains that were made about 3 months ago)? Also, the order for the remaining 120 or so is supposed to be delivered by February, so how do you stop their construction? Where do you get the $80,000,000 price difference between 400 diesels and hybrids at this late date? Do you have that pocket change? Are you going to take 400 brand new buses out of service to convert them?

Besides, what's the deal with several of you saying "up to 2028" when 1030 diesels starting with 1000 will take you to 2029?

While some of the bus moves by CTA are questionable, you have to wonder how big the deficit would be if others ran it.

[trainman8119]

At least Archer can remember some if they think way back!! I don't care for the situation at FG either. Trainman's got a few years to wait at least unless something radical happens.

I could care less if FG got New Flyers or not. I believe what Busjack is referring to

is that this nonsense of constant bus swapping continues while Huberman has the

gall to complain about fuel being so expensive and therefore has to raise fares. I

believe the bus swapping that goes on now is unprecedented and quite wasteful

and there is no rhyme or reason to what goes on. If you recall, the original reason

for all the swapping was "consolidation". Well, we now see how long that lasted.

Now we have Flyers going from NP and 103 to C, C and K New Flyers to 74

(why not just make the intial move from A to 74 months ago), TMC's going from NP to

103 to 77 and still Flxibles from FG to 77 to 103 to 74 to C/K, Novas from Archer to the Glen,

and so on and so on.

[BusHunter]

Besides that, reports are that up to about 1910 have been received, so how are you going to make them hybrids (unless you intend to scrap powertrains that were made about 3 months ago)? Also, the order for the remaining 120 or so is supposed to be delivered by February, so how do you stop their construction? Where do you get the $80,000,000 price difference between 400 diesels and hybrids at this late date? Do you have that pocket change? Are you going to take 400 brand new buses out of service to convert them?

Besides, what's the deal with several of you saying "up to 2028" when 1030 diesels starting with 1000 will take you to 2029?

While some of the bus moves by CTA are questionable, you have to wonder how big the deficit would be if others ran it.

Anyway the contract states so many diesels, so many hybrids. You are legally bound by the contract. In hindsight if the contract could have been changed it would have considering how good these hybrids perform. In the future I see more hybrids anyway. They are the newest thing in the transit industry like low floors were in the 90's. As long as you can afford them why not? 15 years from now we may be asking ourselves where are the diesels. BTW, there seems to be a new protective shield on Chicago's #1000's. It is a piece of clear, looks like, plexiglass that can be latched around the driver if they feel they need the extra security. It's kind of big. It makes the driver look like there in a bubble.

[Busjack]

I believe what Busjack is referring to is that this nonsense of constant bus swapping continues while Huberman has the gall to complain about fuel being so expensive and therefore has to raise fares.

In the Archer situation, it was more of a humorous observation, but I agree with the general point. Once CTA decided that it was going deep into the options, there should have been some planning about where the buses would be going.

[jajuan]

Anyway the contract states so many diesels, so many hybrids. You are legally bound by the contract. In hindsight if the contract could have been changed it would have considering how good these hybrids perform. In the future I see more hybrids anyway. They are the newest thing in the transit industry like low floors were in the 90's. As long as you can afford them why not? 15 years from now we may be asking ourselves where are the diesels. BTW, there seems to be a new protective shield on Chicago's #1000's. It is a piece of clear, looks like, plexiglass that can be latched around the driver if they feel they need the extra security. It's kind of big. It makes the driver look like there in a bubble.

I've notice those new shields. I first noticed them on a few 800s that I was on and then I started seeing them on buses numbered in the 1180s and 1190s before seeing their expanding use on more of the rest of the older NFs at Kedzie.

[cta 5555]

The other day when it was 76 outside. I had 1368 with the heat on! Yea 76 outside 125 inside the bus. Nice to have a new bus out like that.

[BUSANGEL#1]

Any source for this, or just rank speculation? (Don't flame me, bro )

For 70 buses, an odd-even swap wouldn't make sense. And, as frequently stated, it makes little sense to speculate among Chicago and 77 unless you know where the 4000s are going. Maybe rmadison does. Apparently, you also aren't accounting for 2029.

Also, the Novas being rehabbed wouldn't have any effect on FGs 6000s, some of which will become surplus (the 4400s, 5300s and 5800s are supposed to be gone close to New Year's, according to Carole, but deliveries of 1000s and 4400s continue into summer). There aren't enough Novas to run FG unless all of 77th's are transferred there (and while that was speculated, never happened).

For that matter, if 4000s get a permanent home on 156 and like Kedzie routes, maybe some NABIs get fixed and go back to 77th.

Like the stock market, in these times we can count only on uncertainty.

Remember you doubted me being right last time about 103rd receiving flyers in late August 2007. My sources are straight from cta. Believe it or not, the info is correct. And by the way FG will not be receiving flyers at all despite the surplus because they have no 1991 buses. The 6000s will be around longer than you think.

[sw4400]

Also, the Novas being rehabbed wouldn't have any effect on FGs 6000s

Any proof on this? Kevin hasn't stated any rehabs on the Novas on his bus info pages, and I believe a PDF file mentioned a while back brought up the subject of Novas needing rehabs, but no talk of actually getting them. I doubt a new logo means they were rehabbed, if that's the basis for you saying that they were/are getting rehabbed.

[BusHunter]

Any proof on this? Kevin hasn't stated any rehabs on the Novas on his bus info pages, and I believe a PDF file mentioned a while back brought up the subject of Novas needing rehabs, but no talk of actually getting them. I doubt a new logo means they were rehabbed, if that's the basis for you saying that they were/are getting rehabbed.

Coming soon, in fact the budget for next year indicates the beginning of that work. My thinking is first they want to get the novas to FG and Archer and then start the work. If you add the 211 already at Archer and the 250 needed at Fg total (They have 147 now) it gives you an extra pool of about 20 buses. These could help rotate the rehab buses in and out of garages without having a shortage. Like the up to 900 artic bid recently these things take time to come to an official status. We probably won't hear an official announcement about them until at least spring or summer.

[Buslover88]

by the way FG will not be receiving flyers at all despite the surplus because they have no 1991 buses. The 6000s will be around longer than you think.

Than what will replace the 6000s at FG? And how long will be 6000s be around (as you claim)?

BTW, there seems to be a new protective shield on Chicago's #1000's. It is a piece of clear, looks like, plexiglass that can be latched around the driver if they feel they need the extra security. It's kind of big. It makes the driver look like there in a bubble.

I will have to look for that soon on 1000s out of Chicago.

[Busjack]

...My sources are straight from cta. Believe it or not, the info is correct.....

You have a direct line from Sheila Gregory? Or Ron himself? The CTA Tattler seems to contradict you in other respects.

And, if so, give us the allocation of the 150, or is it 208 DE60LFs now (including the correct number). Then we'll compare within a year. As the front page indicates, others don't know, but someone at CTA must.

[BusExpert32]

Remember you doubted me being right last time about 103rd receiving flyers in late August 2007. My sources are straight from cta. Believe it or not, the info is correct. And by the way FG will not be receiving flyers at all despite the surplus because they have no 1991 buses. The 6000s will be around longer than you think.

I agree. Forest Glen will most likely not become an all Nova garage, and some 6000s should still remain there for a while as BUSANGEL#1 states above.

[Buslover88]

I agree. Forest Glen will most likely not become an all Nova garage, and some 6000s should still remain there for a while as BUSANGEL#1 states above.

I disagree. The 6000s are nearly 14 years old now, so they are due for retirement.

[Guest]

It seems that the 6000s dont look or feel that old. Those buses I will really miss when theyre gone. I spent most of my time at CTA on those buses as well as the 4000s MANs.

[wordguy]

It seems that the 6000s dont look or feel that old. Those buses I will really miss when theyre gone. I spent most of my time at CTA on those buses as well as the 4000s MANs.

It looks as a number of current ForestGlen drivers share CTA5750's sentiments. FG 6000s can often be seen operating during off-peak hours, including late nights and weekends, despite availability of Novas.

[Buslover88]

It seems that the 6000s dont look or feel that old. Those buses I will really miss when theyre gone. I spent most of my time at CTA on those buses

It looks as a number of current ForestGlen drivers share CTA5750's sentiments. FG 6000s can often be seen operating during off-peak hours, including late nights and weekends, despite availability of Novas.

I know they don't seem old or look it, but they are, and CTA can't keep old equipment around like they did with the 5300s. Buses are supposed to be retired when they are 12 years old. I will miss the 6000s (and the 5300s for that matter) as much as anybody, but they have to be retired. I'm sorry.

[Busjack]

I know they don't seem old or look it, but they are, and CTA can't keep old equipment around like they did with the 5300s. Buses are supposed to be retired when they are 12 years old. I will miss the 6000s (and the 5300s for that matter) as much as anybody, but they have to be retired. I'm sorry.

Again, unless someone proves that they have indicia of knowledge (such as predicting in advance the 80 bus swap involving 74th, and there is no record in this forum of anyone having done that, or the NF announcement about 58 additional options), one can only look at the numbers. Based on the number of buses on order, and Carole Brown (who should know, but often doesn't) announcing that buses that don't have Bus Tracker on them will be gone by around the turn of the year, which is consistent with other statements by Huberman and on this site's home page, one can conclude that some 6000s will be around after the deliveries of 1000s and 4000s are completed in Feb. and Summer 2009, respectively, but not all will.

This is similar to after the Bus Swap Alert--"We now return to our regular programming."

[jajuan]

Again, unless someone proves that they have indicia of knowledge (such as predicting in advance the 80 bus swap involving 74th, and there is no record in this forum of anyone having done that, or the NF announcement about 58 additional options), one can only look at the numbers. Based on the number of buses on order, and Carole Brown (who should know, but often doesn't) announcing that buses that don't have Bus Tracker on them will be gone by around the turn of the year, which is consistent with other statements by Huberman and on this site's home page, one can conclude that some 6000s will be around after the deliveries of 1000s and 4000s are completed in Feb. and Summer 2009, respectively, but not all will.

This is similar to after the Bus Swap Alert--"We now return to our regular programming."

To go along with that, there are statements from Huberman while giving his PowerPoint presentations earlier in the year that the plan was to retire up to half of the 6000 fleet. He stated this at the same time that he announced to complete retirement of the 5800s. So as far as the 6000s go no one said that all of them would be gone. So unless there is some drastic change that somehow CTA gets more buses than what's on order, Busjack and others are correct that there will still be some 6000s around but not all. The 5800s are the only buses among the 1995 buses that are supposed to be completely gone as stated different times by the CTA.

[Buslover88]

Again, unless someone proves that they have indicia of knowledge (such as predicting in advance the 80 bus swap involving 74th, and there is no record in this forum of anyone having done that, or the NF announcement about 58 additional options), one can only look at the numbers. Based on the number of buses on order, and Carole Brown (who should know, but often doesn't) announcing that buses that don't have Bus Tracker on them will be gone by around the turn of the year, which is consistent with other statements by Huberman and on this site's home page, one can conclude that some 6000s will be around after the deliveries of 1000s and 4000s are completed in Feb. and Summer 2009, respectively, but not all will.

To go along with that, there are statements from Huberman while giving his PowerPoint presentations earlier in the year that the plan was to retire up to half of the 6000 fleet. He stated this at the same time that he announced to complete retirement of the 5800s. So as far as the 6000s go no one said that all of them would be gone. So unless there is some drastic change that somehow CTA gets more buses than what's on order, Busjack and others are correct that there will still be some 6000s around but not all. The 5800s are the only buses among the 1995 buses that are supposed to be completely gone as stated different times by the CTA.

I don't have any knowledge about "bus swaps" as you put it, and don't care for it either. Anyway, i'm saying the 6000s have to be retired because they are 14 years old (isn't the retirement of all buses supposed to be when they are 12 years old?) and due for it. I personally don't want them to go, but I know their age, so that's why i'm saying they have to go soon. We wouldn't want 17 or 18 year old equipment running around again, would we?

[jajuan]

I don't have any knowledge about "bus swaps" as you put it, and don't care for it either. Anyway, i'm saying the 6000s have to be retired because they are 14 years old (isn't the retirement of all buses supposed to be when they are 12 years old?) and due for it. I personally don't want them to go, but I know their age, so that's why i'm saying they have to go soon. We wouldn't want 17 or 18 year old equipment running around again, would we?

I don't think all of us are saying that we want to see these buses around much longer, except for that few who advocate Kedzie and Chicago holding on to the 80 6000s they got in the swap with 74th a couple months ago while swapping out more 1000s to make room for hybrid articulateds they may receive. The point we're making is given what's currently on order counting the remaining 1000s yet to arrive and current order of 4000s plus the exercised option announced by NF, nothing past the complete retirement of 4400s, 5300s and 5800s and the half retirement of 6000s announced in past CTA President presentations will happen by early 2009.

I personally have said numerous times that Kedzie and Chicago shouldn't be holding on to buses that are past their recommended retirement time just to swap more of their newer buses because a busfan may wish them to do so in a misguided act to hold on to junk. Sorry but doing as those busfans would like to see happen makes no sense. If you have a garage that is currently receiving more new buses as Kedzie currently is with the first deliveries of 4000s, you don't swap out relatively new buses that are currently there when there are 13 (soon to be 14) year old buses in a series set for partial retirement that can be swapped out. Go ahead and start with those 40 6000s and move on to Chicago's 40 next by putting 4000s there after Kedzie gets its share.

Now when CTA is able to secure money to fund purchases of more buses beyond the 208 initial new hybrids (if you count the 58 from the reported NF announcement), then we'll possibly see the rest of the 6000s go. The RFP for up to 900 more buses in the future is likely to cover any remaining 6000s left after the partial retirement that's supposed to come in very near future as well as the start of replacements for 6400s which will start reaching average retirement in 2013. They actually have to have funds in place for complete replacement of older bus models. Just about all of the reputative news sources in Chicago have reported that part of the reason for CTA keeping so many buses so far beyond recommended retirement age is lack of funds to purchase new buses in a reasonable amount of time for proper replacement.

[Guest]

Greetings and salutations fellow busfans! I made another trip this morning to Rockford, on the way there I didnt spot any new CTA deliveries. I was hoping to see a NF artics but no sightings or any D40s either. But I did spot something interesting, a brand new MCI D4500 in the Houston Metro livery #5002. Lately on several occasions Ive been spotting Houston Metro MCIs crusing around th eNW suburbs, along the tollway and around Schaumburg including one recent sighting one morning of a Houston MCI #5082 crossing Arlington Hts Rd at Algonquin.

[Busjack]

Greetings and salutations fellow busfans! I made another trip this morning to Rockford, on the way there I didnt spot any new CTA deliveries. I was hoping to see a NF artics but no sightings or any D40s either. But I did spot something interesting, a brand new MCI D4500 in the Houston Metro livery #5002. Lately on several occasions Ive been spotting Houston Metro MCIs crusing around th eNW suburbs, along the tollway and around Schaumburg including one recent sighting one morning of a Houston MCI #5082 crossing Arlington Hts Rd at Algonquin.

MCI has the bus sales facility at Golf and Mt. Prospect Road.

It is hard to see how the route from the factory in North Dakota to Houston would be through here. However, the situation might be like the Pace 6900s. Pace didn't bid them out, but just bought them from MCI. Could be a similar situation with Houston, with the DesPlaines facility just adding the decals. But MCI also has a facility in Dallas.

The headquarters are in Schaumburg, but it is hard to see why the bus would have to go through there.

[BusExpert32]

I disagree. The 6000s are nearly 14 years old now, so they are due for retirement.

I said that some will remain at FG, which is hard to dispute at this point as others have mentioned, considering the current delivery schedule.