Routes Out Of Garages

[cta5658]

Do You Wish That the #151 Sheridan operated from kedzie at all times? or the #10 museum of science & indusry at 77th at all times?

[rmadisonwi]

Do You Wish That the #151 Sheridan operated from kedzie at all times?

No. However, I do wish that more of the 151 was out of Kedzie, but the Devon trips are better out of North Park. Running the Devon trips out of Kedzie creates a really long, lopsided route with the relief point at one end. That sort of a route is extremely inefficient from a scheduling perspective, especially with the current contract rules in place with the bus operators.

or the #10 museum of science & indusry at 77th at all times?

Why would anyone care?

[Busjack]

I agree that "wishing" that some route or the other was out of some garage makes no sense.

The garage game was more fun up to the early 70's, when there were no garage stickers on the bus windshields, and there were only 3 digits (not a garage code) in the run number box. Then one could speculate where various series of buses were centered, and wonder about such things like why 55th Street always had older buses than Cottage Grove (something that frequently recurred and will persist into 2008, I suppose) or why propane buses on Cottage Grove never came out of a barn located on Cottage Grove (52nd). The real fun went out of it when they started putting "Limits Maintenance" stickers and the like on New Looks (Limits was the barn at Clark and Schubert; the land is now John Kass's favorite political football). Now, there really isn't any guesswork.

The garage game is relevant only for:

1. efficiency purposes, such as deadheading or street reliefs (as mentioned above).
   
2. capacity issues (also as mentioned previously).
   
3. if you have sufficient vacant industrial land on the far North or Southwest sides to sell for a garage (and then only if CTA has capital funds to buy it, and maybe if you have political clout).
   

[trainman8119]

...The garage game was more fun up to the early 70's, when there were no garage stickers on the bus windshields, and there were only 3 digits (not a garage code) in the run number box. Then one could speculate where various series of buses were centered...

I agree that the game was more fun in those days. But in a way it was more fair too, because there was not as much bus swapping as there is now. You could pretty much sit at the corner of State and Lake and know which route was going because certain buses were just at certain garages and seeing a bus number meant it was a certain route. Now there is just way too much bus swapping...which I still contend...costs a ton in fuel and salaries (to transfer from one place to another).

No. However, I do wish that more of the 151 was out of Kedzie, but the Devon trips are better out of North Park. Running the Devon trips out of Kedzie creates a really long, lopsided route with the relief point at one end. That sort of a route is extremely inefficient from a scheduling perspective, especially with the current contract rules in place with the bus operators.

Does it really make a difference if a relief point is at one end, the other or in the middle????? It will be the same distance regardless...you will still make the same number of trips, which cover the same area. I guess the only difference would be if you relieved northbound on one trip or southbound on another. In any event, changing operators at Foster is just as lopsided as changing them at Union Station. It is still on one end of the route. Look at Central...it is totally at the north end. I mean, a huge amout of Forest Glen routes change at Jeff Park, which would be on the end of a route, with only Routes 77, 152, 80, and 78 have mid point changes. Now if you were talking, say, Cicero or Pulaski, with changes at Chicago ave...that would indeed be centered.

[rmadisonwi]

Does it really make a difference if a relief point is at one end, the other or in the middle????? It will be the same distance regardless...you will still make the same number of trips, which cover the same area. I guess the only difference would be if you relieved northbound on one trip or southbound on another. In any event, changing operators at Foster is just as lopsided as changing them at Union Station. It is still on one end of the route. Look at Central...it is totally at the north end. I mean, a huge amout of Forest Glen routes change at Jeff Park, which would be on the end of a route, with only Routes 77, 152, 80, and 78 have mid point changes. Now if you were talking, say, Cicero or Pulaski, with changes at Chicago ave...that would indeed be centered.

It does make a difference with the current contract rules.

In the 151 example, a relief point at Foster & Sheridan still gives you about 12-18 minutes (depending on time of day) of travel from there to the north end, plus layover, and another 12-18 minutes back.

The current rules are that an operator must have a lunch break after no more than 5.5 hours of work, and they must have at least 7 hours of platform (on bus) time in order for a run to be picked. No three-piece runs are allowed.

On long, lopsided routes (8 Halsted is a perfect example right now), a round-trip might be three hours. You can't do two round trips, because that would exceed the 5.5 hour rule. So, you do one round trip then you get relieved. But then your second round trip, after your break, would still only be three hours, so your total platform time is six hours. In some situations, there is simply no way to create a standard run on that route and make it legal.

Prior to last summer, issues like this didn't matter so much, because there was an eight-hour daily minimum guarantee. So, some routes were just lucky, and the driver could work 6 to 6.5 hours and get paid for 8. But that is no longer the case. The daily guarantee is replaced with a weekly guarantee of 40 hours, but that guarantee only applies if 1) the driver is on the extra board (which many don't like), or 2) if they pick at least 38.5 hours of work per week. Even if a six-hour run was pickable, many drivers wouldn't go for it because they couldn't get 38.5 hours per week.

If a driver can't pick 38.5 hours and doesn't want to go on the extra board, he/she must accept pay of less than 40 hours per week for that pick, and hope that there are trippers and/or other overtime available to bring the pay up.

The solution to the problem of these sorts of runs has been to increase the amount of interlining done. While there's nothing in the contract that says interlining can't be done, the drivers union has complained extensively about that practice. The goal is to accommodate that complaint to the extent possible, provided it 1) doesn't increase the cost of the schedule, and 2) maintains the amount of runs that can be picked.

A route like 85 Central, or many Forest Glen routes, are similar in their lopsided relief points, except that in those cases you can do two round trips and still come in under 5.5 hours. The Jefferson Park relief points are also useful because a driver could come off of one route, and spend the two or three hours after the lunch break going back and forth on one of the smaller routes to round out the day.

The 151 at Foster & Sheridan example isn't quite as bad because from Foster northbound to Foster southbound is at least 30 minutes, and depending on the amount of layover on the north end, possibly 45-50 minutes.

Similarly, the 9 Ashland has a problem, but not quite as bad as Halsted. The reason for that is because the 9 travels further south, and 74th to 95th (or, at times 103rd) can provide just enough of an extra cushion to push a run over the seven-hour platform mark, provided the runs are cut just the right way.

Issues like this have always been around, but it wasn't as important back in the days when every full-time run paid at least 8 hours, regardless of the actual amount of work. However, an arbitrator's ruling last year has changed the scope of things in many ways.

One of the options now being looked at is moving routes around between garages (though the Halsted route is the only one that really would be moved purely on the basis of a relief point). That, however, brings up another issue, alluded to previously. The two most logical places to put the 8 for better crewing purposes would be Archer or Kedzie. However, these garages aren't exactly ghost towns waiting for buses to fill the space. Ironically, the garage in the system with the most available space for more buses is 74th, which also has the most inconvenient location for placing more routes there, mostly due to the relief point issue (either the lopsided relief points, such as on the 8 and 9; or because in order to get to that route to relieve, a driver would have to take three buses on a circuitous routing).

Whatever decision is made, the most likely time for a change like that to occur would be next spring.

Thus finishes today's lesson in the importance of relief points.

[Busjack]

If what you say is correct, it appears that CTA didn't lose out on the arbitrator's decision as much as it claimed, if the 8 hour pay guarantee was partially abolished.

There were also the old days when Western was split between 69th and North Park, rather than given to Archer. Is that a street relief issue, since at least x49 has a lot of partial runs at both ends of the day, but the ends of the routes are closer to the other two garages?

[geneking7320]

The topic of garages gives me the chance to talk about destination signs. Howso you ask - remember when the non-curtain signs were introduced by various transit agencies an advantage was the ability to use the bus anywhere in your system. That is all vehicles could have all signs used by your system. With CTA I see two disadvantages:

1) the buses with the flip dots have signs difficult to read at night (sometimes in daylight when they don't work properly)

2) as used here they can't provide as much information in a "snapshot" ie, it takes two lines to get the message [ how many CTA routes can say it in one line like 29 STATE-95TH, not many]

end of rant.

[Busjack]

Although I preferred the pre-1975 signs that only had the number and destination on the front and the route on the side. I didn't care for the post-1976 Helvetica signs, that had the destination often scrunched on two lines to the reader's right.

I previously proposed that since the electronic signs are separately programmable, they should go back to destination on the front, route on the side.

The other supposed advantage to the electronic signs is that they are reprogrammable, but neither CTA nor Pace ever have had consistent or even up to date signs.

[trainman8119]

It does make a difference with the current contract rules....

...The current rules are that an operator must have a lunch break after no more than 5.5 hours of work, and they must have at least 7 hours of platform (on bus) time in order for a run to be picked.

Thus finishes today's lesson in the importance of relief points.

Point taken...and understood. Seems like both the union and the company shot themselves

in the foot with how this is agreed to. We have similar rules on the lunch thing (6 hours), but

we have to work through a lunch period if necessary (although there is a paid allowance). I am

sure the 7 hour thing is there to keep the part-timers in check (another issue your union fumbled on...discussion for another day).

All that said though, short of the 8, 9 and 49 there aren't too many 3 hour round trip routes. Also,

what happens in cases of bad weather and you are stuck out there for a 4 hour round trip (on something that might normally take 45 minutes, for example).

[trainman8119]

Although I preferred the pre-1975 signs that only had the number and destination on the front and the route on the side. I didn't care for the post-1976 Helvetica signs, that had the destination often scrunched on two lines to the reader's right.

I previously proposed that since the electronic signs are separately programmable, they should go back to destination on the front, route on the side.

The other supposed advantage to the electronic signs is that they are reprogrammable, but neither CTA nor Pace ever have had consistent or even up to date signs.

I agree 100% with all of this. I am all for bringing back the curtains...however, if you don't (which we all know will not happen), eliminate all this extra nonsense. Go with a route number and ultimate destination (ie. '85 Central-Harrison...or '85 to Harrison) with the route number and street on the side.

Part of the Pace thing with updating signs is that it comes out of the planning department in Arlington Heights. They won't change anything unless they actually change a route. Then they write it up...send it to the garage, and if they have the time, then they will plug in the sign to the computer and reprogram it. (Seen it first hand !!!)

[cta_44499_FG]

If what you say is correct, it appears that CTA didn't lose out on the arbitrator's decision as much as it claimed, if the 8 hour pay guarantee was partially abolished.

There were also the old days when Western was split between 69th and North Park, rather than given to Archer. Is that a street relief issue, since at least x49 has a lot of partial runs at both ends of the day, but the ends of the routes are closer to the other two garages?

Keep in mind also that the 151s out of Kedzie operate differently than the 151s out of North Park do. The 151s from Kedzie terminate at Belmont/Halsted loop basically with some one-way rush trips ending simply at Belmont/Sheridan. North Park busses end for the most part at Clark/Devon, or Foster or even Howard on the early/late sunday trips. It's more logical for a relief for Kedzie operators at Union Station because:

1- It's a lot closer to Kedzie garage than all reliefs taking place at Foster.

2- Their round trip time is much shorter than a North Park operators trip to Devon ( comming from experience as I did operate from North Park. We had a few rare trips that ended at Belmont/Halsted, and it was a much more easier experience than traveling all the way north.

[cta_44499_FG]

It does make a difference with the current contract rules.

The solution to the problem of these sorts of runs has been to increase the amount of interlining done. While there's nothing in the contract that says interlining can't be done, the drivers union has complained extensively about that practice. The goal is to accommodate that complaint to the extent possible, provided it 1) doesn't increase the cost of the schedule, and 2) maintains the amount of runs that can be picked.

------------------

I don't see a problem in interlining so much in the fact that the distance between the lines interlined are not extraneous and rediculous. For example, one of the drivers at FG has a run in which he does an X80, pulls-in and then has to go out to the Harlem Blue Line on the 90N, with about an hour lunch break. Now what if he runs late? Not only is he short-changed his lunch (in most cases having to notify the control center and request another one...but now you have a route that operates on 30-minute intervals AND has only one bus at the late hours WITHOUT SERVICE. Now there are two problems.

If the interlining is done right, it works right. For example the run I worked yesterday pulled out, does two trips on 81 Lawrence, 59 minute fallback and two on 85 Central. That is a nice interline, enough time to have lunch and travel the short distance back to the garage and make the relief...easily done by catching your relief bus northbound from Jeff Pk.

I hope scheduling is reviewing situations like this.

[rmadisonwi]

The issue of getting off at one relief point and getting on somewhere else is being worked on and tweaked where necessary. At North Park for the summer, if an operator has to travel between relief pionts, the lunch break will be at least 45 minutes instead of 30 (the lunch break does not include the paid travel time to get from one relief point to another; that is added on separately). I think the other garages have a similar setup, but I haven't really looked at their schedules, so I don't know for sure.

[qwantae]

Do You Wish That the #151 Sheridan operated from kedzie at all times? or the #10 museum of science & indusry at 77th at all times?

No I do not wish that Route 10 Museum operated from 77th Garage because most drivers from 77th garage are rude, mostly ghetto routes, not even nice to Tourists. They should always operated from Kedzie and Archer instead of 77th. Archer Garage are one of the best for drivers.

[ArcherRider]

I support gwantae on that 77th Street should not run #10 because those driver are not nice like Archer Garage bus drivers because I rider Archer bus alot and they have very nice driver out there.

[cta5658]

Are Any Of The Drivers At the 103rd Garage nice

[Buslover88]

Are Any Of The Drivers At the 103rd Garage nice

Um, don't you ride some of the 103rd routes? You tell us, you should know.

[qwantae]

Are Any Of The Drivers At the 103rd Garage nice

Well, I would say most of them on early and Late night 14 Jeffery Express, 28 Stony Island, N5 South Shore are pretty nice. But not one of the best though.

I would say one of the best Garages: North Park, Forest Glen and Archer has most of polite drivers.

77th, 74th and maybe Chicago are the worst.

Kedzie is pretty good too the same as 103rd, most of Downtown routes.

[busfan4022]

Why would anyone care?

Uhm, hello?

It's like the best route evar, so why wouldnt they care?

------

103rd has the best drivers by the way..

except for that one over there.

*points*

[Buslover88]

I would say one of the best Garages: North Park, Forest Glen and Archer has most of polite drivers.

77th, 74th and maybe Chicago are the worst.

Kedzie and 103rd are pretty good too, on most of Downtown routes.

The drivers out of 77th seem nice to me when I ride #6 Jackson Park Express. I would have to disagree somewhat with nice drivers out of Forest Glen, but most of them are...I think the nicest drivers out of FG are on #77 Belmont or on the other crosstown routes, but not definetly #68 (I believe the meanest FG drivers are on #68) and #85. #91 and #56 have pretty nice drivers. The drivers at North Park are nice, but I think Archer has the nicest drivers in the system.

Most drivers at Chicago are very cruel. They act like they can do whatever they want. I caught a driver on #53 smoking with passengers on the bus. The drivers on #76 are the meanest in my opinion because they cuss, are anxious to get the route done, drive past people at bus stops, and kick people off (sometimes if it's too crowded, other times because they feel like it).

Kedzie drivers are pretty nice as well. I wouldn't know about the 74th and 103rd drivers because I never rode a route out of those two garages.

That's all i'm saying...

[Kevin]

I caught a driver on #53 smoking with passengers on the bus.

Were you able to report this driver to CTA?

[Buslover88]

No, because I saw it from across the street inside the restuant at Diversey and Pulaski.

[busfan4022]

:(

Are you sure that he was smokin'?

[Buslover88]

Yes, I saw the smoke (I also saw the guy have something against his mouth) from inside the bus and I saw a passenger talking (or arguing) with the driver

[Busjack]

No, because I saw it from across the street inside the restuant at Diversey and Pulaski.

Yes, I saw the smoke (I also saw the guy have something against his mouth) from inside the bus and I saw a passenger talking (or arguing) with the driver

Are you telling inconsistent stories again? Or does "from inside the bus" modify something other than "I saw"?