New Flyer LF Buses on Order for CTA

[geneking7320]

I have a few questions about the forthcoming New Flyer low floor buses the CTA has on order:

1) Will CTA retain the roof mounted AC and have a rear window like the

5800s?

2) Will the front of the bus be indentical to that of the 5800s or will it resemble the electric trolley buses that New Flyer delivered to BC Transit in Canada?

3) How many seats will the bus have and will any face the rear of the bus?

4) Will the livery be the same as present or will it be different... say like the Compobus?

Thanks much!

[sw4400]

The New Flyer DLF's are the same model type as the 5800's, so I don't think there will be a big change to them. They should still have the roof mounted A/C, a rear window, and the same front end as seen on the 5800's. The seating design will probably be like the experimental NOVABus(es) that were or are still being used today or the design of the NABIBus CompoBus. It wouldn't suprise me to see the exterior paint of the Bus to be Red, White, and Blue like the CompoBus was. The interior paint might be different too. I think it'll be a lighter color than the 5800's are. What I wonder though is what numbers these buses will be given. I believe they will start with the number 8000 and go up from there with perhaps the DELF's getting the numbers 7900 on up. The Hybrid Buses may be a different design than the DLF's, however. But most likely almost identical. Does that help?

[geneking7320]

I think that helps quite a bit!

I hope CTA stays with the orange color destination signs on the new buses.

[Kevin]

It's possible that the NewFlyers will have a rear AC instead of roof mounted. Recent orders of D40LFs received by other transit agencies such as ETS in Edmonton, Canada have had this design.

The buses will also be the first major order to contain new types of seats. The NewFlyers will likely have Citi Pro seats from the local Freedman Seating Company. These are the same types of seats that were used in the CompoBus prototype and are still in use on Nova Bus #6673 as a test.

As far as livery, at the very least the CTA logo will be switched out with the updated version.

Destination signs will almost certainly be amber LEDs, although multicolor would be cool.

[Kevin]

Update: I just confirmed that New Flyer is in fact redesigning the D40LF to look similar to the electric trolley buses on their way to BC. However, I'm not sure if CTA's first D40LF order will feature this updated design.

[Busjack]

Another group's picture of the trolley bus is posted here.

Also, New Flyer's press release. said that the prototype will be delivered in the 3d quarter of 2005, so I suppose we will know fairly soon.

[geneking7320]

Does anyone know what engines will be in the non-hybrid (regular diesel) New Flyer buses on order?

[Busjack]

New Flyer's ad at the APTA convention site had a picture of its "restyled standard vehicle."

[Kevin]

New Flyer's ad at the APTA convention site had a picture of its "restyled standard vehicle."

I would love it if CTA got that new design!

[MetroShadow]

New Flyer's ad at the APTA convention site had a picture of its "restyled standard vehicle."

THAT IS HOT!

very similiar to the Gillig Advantage in DeKalb, but it doesn't matter. CTA SHOULD get this model, and I'd fall in love with it.

wow.

[geneking7320]

I think the bus looks very sharp also.

A question for our administrator:

Do you think that New Flyer front end is reminiscient of the NABI artic front end?

[Busjack]

It looks as though all bus builders are offering some version with projector headlights, but some fronts (on the New Flyer, Nova, and Gillig BRT) are more slanted than others. Also, some, like the Optima, have more of a curved bottom on the windshield, while the one on the New Flyer appears false.

[Kevin]

I think the bus looks very sharp also.

A question for our administrator:

Do you think that New Flyer front end is reminiscient of the NABI artic front end?

It does look like New Flyer was "inspired" by NABI when designing the new front. Although I think New Flyer did a better job in the long run.

[CTA 9537]

They do look like the new NABI artics. I really like the new design to I hope this is what CTA is getting they will look good in CTA colors

[RJL6000]

I know that these latest 2006 New Flyer LF's coming to the CTA will have LED destination signs. The question is: Will these New Flyers come with destination signs from Luminator (the company which supplied flip-dot signs on the 5300-series 1991 Flxible Metros numbered 5545-5769, the 6000-series 1995 Flxible Metros and the 5800-series 1995 New Flyer LF's, and the LED signs in the 7500-series 2003 NABI articulateds)? Or will those destination signs come from TwinVision (the company which supplied destination signs on the 6400-series 2001 NovaBus LF's)? Or will they come from another company (such as Trans Industries' Vultron)?

I will see them once they go out on the streets in Chicago.

[geneking7320]

I prefer the LED sign as on the NABI artics. I'm nearsighted and can read them from a block away! I wonder is there anyway to get the CTA to experiment with a two line "message" on the front so the sign doesn't have to flip?

Gene

[trainman8119]

Bring back the old curtain sign. I still see so many LED's that just don't work...and for what ever reason, they won't fix em.

[Busjack]

I prefer the LED sign as on the NABI artics. ...  I wonder is there anyway to get the CTA to experiment with a two line "message" on the front so the sign doesn't have to flip?

They could be reprogrammed, but it is tough just getting the correct signs programmed. Pace 6162 series NABIs at South have some 2 line signs (apprently using the same program as on the Orion VIs they used to have), but those are not readable, and some have debated whether they comply with ADA requirements.

[MetroShadow]

If you want to bring the curtains back, make sure the lighting is MUCH better, or have some kind of noticable sign on them (background, neon lettering, etc.)

I remember, when I was about 8 or so, and this was before my vision went down the crapper, I used to squint at the signs. I didn't have much problems with the Express buses (you only had about 10 of them anyway)...it was the other black background that was the problem.

My other concern is that half of the drivers won't even change the signs. I knew this is a problem with the current electronic signals, and unless the automated system already does it, some of the signs won't be changed by the drivers.

Its now a case of whether or not they want to change it.

But whatever.

I'd be for the 2-lined destination signs, but like the ones used on the Orion 6 models from Pace.

[geneking7320]

Since we happen to be talking about signs, I thought I would recap a few related items from the mid 70s to the present. [Zolk, please correct any mistakes] When ADBs arrived on the scene ie, Flx 870 and GM RTS (outgrowths of Transbus) they had larger courtain signs. These signs could be read easily and display much information. Progress brought flip-dot and LED signs, however even though the letters are large the actual message displayed seems smaller. That is, you need two lines to say what could be said on one mylar curtain.

Any idea what the next improvement in signs will be?

[Busjack]

RTA's Flx 870s did have larger front curtain signs; RTSs (in other cities) did not. Both the Flxs and Flyer D900s could have had larger signs, but transit authorities (including CTA with its D901s) blocked out the extra area around the borders. The old Downers Grove Gilligs also had a large front curtain sign; Will's picture of an East Chicago one is similar.

Similarly, some of the flip dot signs took up the whole available area, while others had the borders blocked. A common variation was a taller sign for the route number and a shorter one for the destination. (I was living in Rochester at the time; see a picture of the two styles.) It isn't clear whether the original head signs on the 4400s, 5300s, 5800s, and 6000s consisted of two units. I suspect they were, since I have seen signs in the form of:

80 80 IRVING PARK

The replacement LED ones are single units.

Both Twinvision and Luminator are selling multicolor signs, and have discontinued the flip dots.

[MetroShadow]

Yeah, the ones with the double digits do appear here in dekalb, and some of the current headsigns of select 5300's have this.