#4000 Arrives

[BusExpert32]

The 5000 series? Would this mean that the 150 hybrid artics are being split evenly into two seperate series like the original 20 40 ft hybrids?

[daerah]

These artics will look great operating alongside the 40 foot NF buses. In an unrelated topic, a few days ago one of your operators out of Kedzie broke down at 16th/Pulaski, Flx #6038. The operator named Shawn came into my firehouse and asked to use the phone to call control. We took care of him, I told him I was an exCTA operator, bought him a soda and I gave him a tour of the firehouse. We let him stay there until he recieved orders. Control requested him to pull it in.

Awwwwh man!! I wish it were me who had broke down! I would have loved a tour of the fire house! i'm aim for that next time. I noticed you said 'soda' instead of 'pop'....I'm from California and we say Soda...I cant fix my mouth to say 'pop' hahaha

[rmadisonwi]

The bus is on the 156 both AM and PM.

Barring a change in plans, in the morning, the bus will leave Belmont & Halsted at 6:33 and 8:20, and leave Harrison & Desplaines at 7:27.

In the afternoon, the bus should leave Harrison at 2:49, 4:37, 6:28, and 7:55, and leave Belmont at 3:41, 5:39, and 7:19.

Times are approximate. Subject to change without notice. I disclaim any liability in the event that they put it on a different run.

As of this evening, the bus had the old destination sign programming (showing "156 LASALLE BELMONT" on one line). That might get corrected in the next day or so.

[nflyer22]

The 5000 series? Would this mean that the 150 hybrid artics are being split evenly into two seperate series like the original 20 40 ft hybrids?

Whoa, hold it...isn't that the series for the new AC traction rail cars on order? Unless the CTA also plans to change that series number too, since CTA has been known not to overlap series numbers between its rail cars and buses...

[Guest]

Awwwwh man!! I wish it were me who had broke down! I would have loved a tour of the fire house! i'm aim for that next time. I noticed you said 'soda' instead of 'pop'....I'm from California and we say Soda...I cant fix my mouth to say 'pop' hahaha

I was a transplanted Southern Californian. From 1989 to 93 I lived in San Diego, spent a lot of time around SD Transit and trolleys and Los Angeles RTD. For gods sakes, I still say "freeway" instead of expressway! Im always there to help out a CTA operator.

[rmadisonwi]

Whoa, hold it...isn't that the series for the new AC traction rail cars on order? Unless the CTA also plans to change that series number too, since CTA has been known not to overlap series numbers between its rail cars and buses...

The new rail cars will be the 5000s.

I'm not aware of any plans to buy articulated versions of the 900s. In fact, from what I've been told, the 900s aren't that reliable. The 800s, on the other hand, are extremely reliable.

Unlike the 800s/900s, these artics aren't ordered for trial or testing. They were acquired because another transit authority had an option to tag onto an existing order, and declined to take up that option. CTA was able to use that opportunity to get these buses at a lower cost (and earlier deliveries) than if this contract had been ordered on its own.

All 150 buses in this current order will be of the same type. Future deliveries will be dependent on the outcome of the 900-bus RFP that has already been noted on this forum.

[MVTArider]

From New Flyer's website:

Chicago Transit Authority in Chicago, IL has exercised options for 58 60-foot diesel hybrid buses (116 EUs)

I must have missed something, is this an extension to the current deliveries bringing it to 150 or is this in addition? Or is this the delivery happening now with 4000 being the first?

[Busjack]

From New Flyer's website:

I must have missed something, is this an extension to the current deliveries bringing it to 150 or is this in addition? Or is this the delivery happening now with 4000 being the first?

Hard to tell what this means. The NF announcement that CTA had exercised options for 150 was posted on March 18. It is hard to believe that CTA put out an RFP if it could get more options. But NF says "These orders, when combined with previously-reported orders ...."

But, as previously noted, the status of the 13 buses from the Durbin grant, as well as the BRT grant paying for about 50 is unclear.

There was nothing in the October Board Meeting Agenda or Board Presentation (or prior one) about this.

[Busjack]

All 150 buses in this current order will be of the same type. Future deliveries will be dependent on the outcome of the 900-bus RFP that has already been noted on this forum.

And, Proposer 1's reply to that indicated that it was bidding the Allison system.

[greenstreet]

This bus should be on the 156 tomorrow morning, but I don't know which run will get it.

So, if the bus went into service on Wednesday, did anyone get any in-service pictures on its first day of operation?

[Busjack]

The bus is on the 156 both AM and PM.

Barring a change in plans, in the morning, the bus will leave Belmont & Halsted at 6:33 and 8:20, and leave Harrison & Desplaines at 7:27.

Apparently its Bus Tracker isn't working.

(Not on other 156 readings, either)

Update: Slightly later shot with a gap where the bus was expected:

[sw4400]

Apparently its Bus Tracker isn't working.

(Not on other 156 readings, either)

Update: Slightly later shot with a gap where the bus was expected:

Perhaps they haven't installed a bustracker unit on it yet. I've seen Flxibles(6000's) and NOVA's on routes that I didn't expect to see because they have no tracker on them. Why not is a mystery to me.

[BusHunter]

At least daerah's pictures have answered a few questions I have. The interior displays LED interior lights just like the post #1630's. I would assume the exteriors are made of the lighter metal also. It gives the bus a shine that the previous bus orders do not. Being that his reporting states that the bus arrived at Kedzie 2 weeks ago, shouldn't there be a few more by now, unless this is a prototype of some kind as trainman said earlier.

[The Don of All Buses]

Those are some realy sexy buses! I'm glad the CTA went with the original design as opposed to the LFR.

[MVTArider]

Hard to tell what this means. The NF announcement that CTA had exercised options for 150 was posted on March 18. It is hard to believe that CTA put out an RFP if it could get more options. But NF says "These orders, when combined with previously-reported orders ...."

But, as previously noted, the status of the 13 buses from the Durbin grant, as well as the BRT grant paying for about 50 is unclear.

There was nothing in the October Board Meeting Agenda or Board Presentation (or prior one) about this.

I thought I had seen the 150 mentioned by NF before, if you aren't sure what it means exactly then I don't feel clueless I thought it might have already been covered and I missed the point of what was said. Thanks.

[Busjack]

I thought I had seen the 150 mentioned by NF before, if you aren't sure what it means exactly then I don't feel clueless I thought it might have already been covered and I missed the point of what was said. Thanks.

I suppose we'll know when and if 4207 is seen. Hopefully, before then. Then we would also have the explanation why these aren't 600s. :wub:

[BusHunter]

Well I finally got to ride #4000 yesterday after trying to hunt it down for 4 days. It was running on the #156 in the same evening rush hour timeframe as RMadison said earlier in this thread. I boarded it and noticed the longitudinal seats in front the first six or seven are mounted sideways like a #5300. Both wheelchair positions on the left are divided by a blue partition similar to what you'd see on a pace wheelchair position in the NABI"s. The bus from the back door to rear is identical inside to a #1000 you really can't tell the difference other than an access panel in the floor at rear. Upon driving the bus engine area seemed a little noisy, I guess I was figuring it to be more silent considering it was a hybrid. There was all kinds of literature advertizing the new features installed on the bus in the advertizing area above the interior lights. The bus was very quiet other than the whirlling of the engine on takeoff. No rattles like a NABI 60 footer, when the rear doors open all quiet, nice and precise. Now that's an articulated bus. The bus did experience a problem while I was on it. The back door started repeating over and over and wouldn't stop. To my surprise a guy jumps up with a metal clipboard talking on a cell phone. He states to the person on the other end "now the doors are messing up" and then he runs to the front and starts using the manual overide on the rear doors at the top right hand side in the front. This started happening at Division ( I was going north) The guy stayed up there and operated the doors that way. So you could say we had a two man operation going on the bus. Seeing that guy was weird what's he doing there? He seems to work for NF and this trip is a test trip with passengers. This does seem to be some kind of prototype. That's why we haven't seen more buses so far. I guess CTA wants to see what's up with these seeing how they got burned on the NABI purchase.

[Guest]

Well I finally got to ride #4000 yesterday after trying to hunt it down for 4 days. It was running on the #156 in the same evening rush hour timeframe as RMadison said earlier in this thread. I boarded it and noticed the longitudinal seats in front the first six or seven are mounted sideways like a #5300. Both wheelchair positions on the left are divided by a blue partition similar to what you'd see on a pace wheelchair position in the NABI"s. The bus from the back door to rear is identical inside to a #1000 you really can't tell the difference other than an access panel in the floor at rear. Upon driving the bus engine area seemed a little noisy, I guess I was figuring it to be more silent considering it was a hybrid. There was all kinds of literature advertizing the new features installed on the bus in the advertizing area above the interior lights. The bus was very quiet other than the whirlling of the engine on takeoff. No rattles like a NABI 60 footer, when the rear doors open all quiet, nice and precise. Now that's an articulated bus. The bus did experience a problem while I was on it. The back door started repeating over and over and wouldn't stop. To my surprise a guy jumps up with a metal clipboard talking on a cell phone. He states to the person on the other end "now the doors are messing up" and then he runs to the front and starts using the manual overide on the rear doors at the top right hand side in the front. This started happening at Division ( I was going north) The guy stayed up there and operated the doors that way. So you could say we had a two man operation going on the bus. Seeing that guy was weird what's he doing there? He seems to work for NF and this trip is a test trip with passengers. This does seem to be some kind of prototype. That's why we haven't seen more buses so far. I guess CTA wants to see what's up with these seeing how they got burned on the NABI purchase.

After the NABI fiasco, CTA has to get its act together! But as always if the NF Artic delivery goes forward who is to say that the NF artics arent going to have the same problems as the NABIs. Lets remember these low floor buses since theyve begun arriving, have been a problem for CTA and for Pace as well. Im sure CTA dosent want that same mistake made twice. But with CTA you never know I guess!

[Busjack]

After the NABI fiasco, CTA has to get its act together! But as always if the NF Artic delivery goes forward who is to say that the NF artics arent going to have the same problems as the NABIs. Lets remember these low floor buses since theyve begun arriving, have been a problem for CTA and for Pace as well. Im sure CTA dosent want that same mistake made twice. But with CTA you never know I guess!

Some of it shouldn't be endemic to low floors, such as the back doors not working. However, that was one of the cited problems with the NABIs, and here BusHunter reports that there was a NF rep dealing with a rear door problem on 4000.

While being a low floor affects the front suspension and the like, what may be the common thread is that unlike the days when an GM bus had GM components, the buses today are assembled by companies such as NABI and New Flyer, that are just using third party components. For instance, when the GM Allison hybrid system first came out, there were postings on the Internet bulletin boards saying that the pictured bus was not a GM, but a New Flyer, which was true, but it has the GM system in it. Gillig, Nova, and NABI offer that system, too. Also, the original Seattle hybrid buses had Caterpillar engines.

Similarly, when NABI was asking for Buy America Act waivers for the articulation joint, NF replied that it used the same joint, but because it had higher US content in its bus, didn't need the waiver. Proposer 1's comments included numerous references to the component manufacturer not offering the warranty specified in the RFP.

It is sort of like if your Toyota had a Buick engine, and your Buick had a Kia one. While some stuff like that happens in the car industry, it is nothing compared to what happens in the bus assembly business.

[BusHunter]

Some of it shouldn't be endemic to low floors, such as the back doors not working. However, that was one of the cited problems with the NABIs, and here BusHunter reports that there was a NF rep dealing with a rear door problem on 4000.

While being a low floor affects the front suspension and the like, what may be the common thread is that unlike the days when an GM bus had GM components, the buses today are assembled by companies such as NABI and New Flyer, that are just using third party components. For instance, when the GM Allison hybrid system first came out, there were postings on the Internet bulletin boards saying that the pictured bus was not a GM, but a New Flyer, which was true, but it has the GM system in it. Gillig, Nova, and NABI offer that system, too. Also, the original Seattle hybrid buses had Caterpillar engines.

Similarly, when NABI was asking for Buy America Act waivers for the articulation joint, NF replied that it used the same joint, but because it had higher US content in its bus, didn't need the waiver. Proposer 1's comments included numerous references to the component manufacturer not offering the warranty specified in the RFP.

It is sort of like if your Toyota had a Buick engine, and your Buick had a Kia one. While some stuff like that happens in the car industry, it is nothing compared to what happens in the bus assembly business.

The door problem wasn't too bad, just a faulty sensor. All these NF's with the touch opening rear doors have a sensor that detects light when the light is broken the doors open if the green light is on to exit. Not to bad of a feature but I have seen NF #1000's with the same repeating door that were just delivered. Most likely it's just a kink that needs to be worked out better to have it happen now than 150 buses later. With these newer buses with more components and computer parts, they have alot more that can go wrong than say a GMC #9000 fishbowl.

[Busjack]

The door problem wasn't too bad, just a faulty sensor. All these NF's with the touch opening rear doors have a sensor that detects light when the light is broken the doors open if the green light is on to exit. Not to bad of a feature but I have seen NF #1000's with the same repeating door that were just delivered. Most likely it's just a kink that needs to be worked out better to have it happen now than 150 buses later. With these newer buses with more components and computer parts, they have alot more that can go wrong than say a GMC #9000 fishbowl.

Correct, and from what you say, it was a different problem than on the NABIs (where it was reported that the engine that opens the rear doors was not aligned).

[BusHunter]

Correct, and from what you say, it was a different problem than on the NABIs (where it was reported that the engine that opens the rear doors was not aligned).

Since this was repaired on the NABI's, some of them you can still feel wanting to pull away from you on a stop. What a piece of junk!! No wonder no other agency has them ( that I know of). There was a report somewhere LA wanted some but backed down after all the negative publicity.

[Busjack]

Since this was repaired on the NABI's, some of them you can still feel wanting to pull away from you on a stop. What a piece of junk!! No wonder no other agency has them ( that I know of). There was a report somewhere LA wanted some but backed down after all the negative publicity.

They took the 60BRTs, which I doubt have much different components. And had, in effect, a sole source procurement for the Compobus (now Metro 45C).

[MVTArider]

Well to add to the fire here, I haven't seen any problems with the D60LFR sensors or the Gillig BRT sensors here so hopefully that was just an isolated incident. Its interesting because on Campus Connector buses and St. Cloud MetroBus the rear doors are only driver operated. Also here is a link to a vid of a NovaBus Artic prototype having rear door issues.

[daerah]

The NABI BRT-60 (Cummins L+Gas) was (is) an excellent bus...its a very different from the 60-LFW...I miss driving those actually. Very Nice.... I miss Metro and its operations...now I'm trying to get used to the Cta and their operations.