sw4400 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 We may not get the 2000's(New Flyer D40LF's), let alone the options from 4150+(New Flyer DE60LF's) if this statement holds true.... Unfortunately, New Flyer . . . has informed the CTA that if they do not receive orders from transit agencies soon... the CTA has an option for over 50 buses with New Flyer - they will be forced to close their St. Cloud plant." Thanks to the "Buy American" act, that'll leaves us with.... NABI!!! Ugh!!! Not much else left that produces 60' buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 We may not get the 2000's(New Flyer D40LF's), let alone the options from 4150+(New Flyer DE60LF's) if this statement holds true.... Unfortunately, New Flyer . . . has informed the CTA that if they do not receive orders from transit agencies soon... the CTA has an option for over 50 buses with New Flyer - they will be forced to close their St. Cloud plant." Thanks to the "Buy American" act, that'll leaves us with.... NABI!!! Ugh!!! Not much else left that produces 60' buses. Well, according to some of the chatter on this site Nova might be in that market. Personally, I hope that New Flyer doesn't leave the US market. Gene King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Source? http://www.ctatattler.com/2009/02/shovelready-transit.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 http://www.ctatattler.com/2009/02/shovelready-transit.html Thanks I'd like to see more hard evidence though, considering New Flyer has announced they are closing 2008 with a record $41 Billion backlog. Also they still have the Crookston MN plant. Still if they did leave the US it would be quite something :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Thanks I'd like to see more hard evidence though, considering New Flyer has announced they are closing 2008 with a record $41 Billion backlog. Also they still have the Crookston MN plant. Still if they did leave the US it would be quite something I noted the same thing in response to the CTA Tattler post. I also noted that Carole Brown's blog has been consistently fast and loose with the facts, when she wants to make a plea for public support for one of her crusades. MVTArider is also correct about the second plant. There is also the question why Carole is now only mentioning the 58 bus order, and still no official word about the up to 900 one. Maybe what NF has on its order books is poof. And, besides the Nova reports, there were also reports about whether Daimler would sell its Citaro, which would be assembled by Orion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Carole Brown's testimony referred to New Flyer testifying next. New Flyer's presentation seemed concentrated on what funding options would do to boost the economy. I don't see any threats of a shutdown there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Wow, what a shocker! Lets hope it dosent happen. But then again we shouldnt be surprised either. Its the domino effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trey824 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Wow, what a shocker! Lets hope it dosent happen. But then again we shouldnt be surprised either. Its the domino effect. if this information holds true,that would leave us in a big problem,though other firms such as orion and gillig provide very good long lasting buses that hold out for a long time before problems come if any.does any one know when new flyer plans to move foward with these actions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC-RTS-08 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 If this is something that does happen, then I hope CTA buys the new Nova LFSes!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cta5658 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 New Flyer Leaving The U.S. Market? That is so Unlikely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 New Flyer Leaving The U.S. Market? That is so Unlikely Why do you say that? In these times, anything's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Why do you say that? In these times, anything's possible.Except the CTA Board giving us a straight story. :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Why do you say that? In these times, anything's possible. But that would be like saying Mcdonald's will leave the U.S. market or Wal-Mart. I would think business is doing well at NF. The Chicago orders alone (1,200 buses) could keep the company open. Most likely the reason were not seeing the up to 900 yet is because of the snafu with the $153 million for BRT. Without that money and BRT there is no need for more artics. The 208 (#4000 - #4207) can just about replace the NABI's. When the BRT delay is taken care of hopefully soon, we'll most likely see the order processed. If the worse case scenario happened (and I have a hard time believing that) then Nova would most likely get the business before NABI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 But that would be like saying Mcdonald's will leave the U.S. market or Wal-Mart. Also, to put it on a level that sw understands, it is similar to my mother asking whether Jewel is going out of business, because the Albertson's in Florida across the street from where she lives was closing. While admittedly the possibility of GM or Chrysler going out of business has been raised, people are reading too much into Carole Brown's casual remarks. Remember she "had received different information" that Pace had not privatized paratransit, according to her blog entries of 5/24/2005. Thus, what she says is not gospel, and I sure wouldn't trust it, and in addition, come to further conclusions, like sw did. Most likely the reason were not seeing the up to 900 yet is because of the snafu with the $153 million for BRT. Without that money and BRT there is no need for more artics.For that matter, why is she begging to Congress for the 58 buses, when the current wisdom was that the Bush Administration wasn't going to grant the extension, but put that responsibility on the Obama Administration? Why doesn't she just ask Frank to ask LaHood to give the extension, instead of begging to Congress? Brown is being disingenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 For that matter, why is she begging to Congress for the 58 buses, when the current wisdom was that the Bush Administration wasn't going to grant the extension, but put that responsibility on the Obama Administration? Why doesn't she just ask Frank to ask LaHood to give the extension, instead of begging to Congress? Brown is being disingenuous. I think because they bought the 58 intending on a BRT pilot. The money went poof and she's trying to get more funding by talking about CTA's infrastructure problems. Now most likely that money for the 58 comes out of CTA's pocket and it further taxes them to repair what is needed. She's trying to do her part to get more funding. There are still infrastructure issues. The "L" car FTA service life is 25 years. Well that would mean that roughly cars below #2900 are past that. (about 650 cars) Also there is the #6000's buses. (299 left ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The money went poofBut has it? The consensus in the press is no. In any event, one would think that Brown would first try the path of least resistance to get it. ... Unless Daley is trying to make some other kind of political point. You may be suggesting that by pointing out what else is overdue for replacement. But the CTA administration hasn't been forthcoming about that, either. The problem seems a lot more than the "58 buses." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The 208 (#4000 - #4207) can just about replace the NABI's. 4150-4207 don't yet exist(the 58 not yet optioned could be a new number series, not a continuation of the 4000's). These are the 58 optioned that haven't yet been exercised, nor have the up to 900 more in various options for New Flyer to get once we get funding to buy or lease them(but the way the Republicans are going in D.C, it might not be until Spring before that stimulus gets to Obama.) 4000-4149 are all we are going to get, provided they're built before St. Cloud closes up. Same goes with 2000-2029 on the D40LF order. then Nova would most likely get the business before NABI. Right now, I think NOVA put a hold on that plant in N.Y right now. With the market like it is in the U.S, I think they know transit agencies(e.g CTA, PACE, MTA, etc...) won't be buying large quantities of buses(which will mean massive layoffs and possible closure of the N.Y plant. Again, especially since that large stimulus bill is probably going to be hung up in channels thanks to the G.O.P!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 This is why they are probably emphasizing that without business, St. Cloud New Flyer will close. Looks to be a pretty important part of production in the U.S from what I see here... http://www.newflyer.com/index/st_cloud This is what sticks out to me... Finishing and full-production facility (full build, from welding to final assembly) Here's what the other plant does in Crookston, MN... http://www.newflyer.com/index/crookston Here's what sticks out to me here... Final assembly plant for Winnipeg and St. Cloud, MN operations Now here's what the big plant in Winnipeg does... http://www.newflyer.com/index/facilities_winnipeg Manufactures bus shells and parts for St. Cloud or Crookston, MN finishing I don't think one can exist without the other, based on what I see here. So if St. Cloud closes, New Flyer will probably build solely for Winnipeg at Crookston(as St. Cloud welds and builds the U.S buses before Crookston gets them for final assembly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 provided they're built before St. Cloud closes up.You really believe that? Apparently you didn't read my prior post about my mother believing that Jewel is closing. Let's not go off the deep end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 You really believe that? Apparently you didn't read my prior post about my mother believing that Jewel is closing. Let's not go off the deep end. I'm with Busjack on this one. With 42% of the american marketshare it would simply be foolhearty to close. If anything it would be a stimulus to who's left because cities will always need buses. As far as the 58 question. Why would you number a bus a new series if there is no BRT especially if there is no difference from the first batch? Indeed the 58 buses are coming. That's why Brown's looking for the funding, because this has to come out of CTA's budget now. Also no way could the NABI's be retired completly without the order. It sounds to me as if CTA has given up on BRT for now. That why the sudden shift to retiring NABI"s instead of #6000's. They would've ended up with 400 artics with no additional service, which would seem kind of wasteful to me. There waiting just like we are to see what happens in D.C. with the startup money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Except the CTA Board giving us a straight story. Yeah, true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santran Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 As for the 58 Artics coming in. The New Flyer Statement... Chicago Transit Authority in Chicago, IL has exercised options for 58 60-foot diesel hybrid buses (116 EUs) And the company just announced ending 2008 with a backlong of $4.1 BILLION, so not a chance in hell of closing a plant. 2 US plants = 4 assembly lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Again, while anything is possible, it is reported that CTA will get $55 million from the stimulus package for buses, and elsewhere for "hybrid articulated buses." So, amazingly, the order for 58 buses that our friends on this forum found about a year ago is suddenly funded, and Carole Brown's scare tactic either worked or was coincidental. Moral: Don't get into a froth over anything she says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Why do you say that? In these times, anything's possible. ....except for an honest politician coming from Illinois. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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