2200-series - Updates (Retired)

[sw4400]

This should be a full 6 or 8-car set of 2200's only. This actually is a nice way to say goodbye to them. I'm not knocking them... they were good cars, I bet. But with all the past problems and all the talk "it was a vintage car built in the 1960's that derailed or broke down in the subway" scares me too much to partake in the ride. I would challenge any chicagobus.org member(s) who are going to take a video camera and upload the trip to YouTube with a link to this thread so it can be viewed.

I'd like to see this same kind of goodbye for the 3200's around 2021-2022, when they'll most likely phase them out. The only disappointment is nothing will be unique about them. Yes, they'll be D/C-powered unless the CTA changes that, but that's it sadly... The Mylar Curtains will be gone(replaced by similar LED signage in the 5000's), and they are the final set of railcars with Mylars. Why the CTA can't leave them so they can be unique come their time to go, I have no clue.

[jcmorris]

[...]I would challenge any chicagobus.org member(s) who are going to take a video camera and upload the trip to YouTube with a link to this thread so it can be viewed.

I plan on getting some video and photographs from the trip. In fact, I just published a blog post and video of the 2200s in their final weeks of service: http://chicagopatterns.com/end-of-the-line-for-the-2200-series-cta-cars/

[See Tea Eh]

Why the CTA can't leave them so they can be unique come their time to go, I have no clue.

Here's one (and I'm sure it's already been explained on here before): Swapping out the signs makes things simpler in the long run for fleet flexibility; LEDs cost less to maintain than rollers with a bunch of moving parts, and they don't need to do anything to them when they swap them between routes; it eliminates an entire inventory of parts to be maintained; CTA is a transit system, not a museum; transit properties generally prefer to have common equipment rather than specialized equipment for simplicity's sake; having things be unique just for the sake of being unique is against running an efficient operation.

Actually, that's six (not one), and there are probably at least a half-dozen other reasons.

And had it been possible to refit the 2200s with sliding doors rather than blinker doors 10 or 20 years ago, they would have done that, too, rather than worry about them being "unique".

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I plan on getting some video and photographs from the trip. In fact, I just published a blog post and video of the 2200s in their final weeks of service: http://chicagopatterns.com/end-of-the-line-for-the-2200-series-cta-cars/

I only have videos of them running as part of the Snowflake Special. I'm eager to see pictures and links on here.

[sw4400]

Here's one (and I'm sure it's already been explained on here before): Swapping out the signs makes things simpler in the long run for fleet flexibility; LEDs cost less to maintain than rollers with a bunch of moving parts, and they don't need to do anything to them when they swap them between routes; it eliminates an entire inventory of parts to be maintained; CTA is a transit system, not a museum...

I agree that the CTA is not a rolling museum, but a transit system. But look at the past... 4000's, 1-50's, 6000's, 2000's and now 2200's are going to a museum for representation. There must've been something unique with all those series for the museums to buy cars. The 2400's have a place cemented there I'm sure as they are the first order for CTA with sliding doors, the only thing I can think of for the 2600's that make them unique is they are the largest order of railcars for the CTA, spanning most of the 1980's(I don't know if they had full width cabs or not for one man operation their entire service lives). The thing that will make the 3200's unique and maybe when that time comes for a museum like IRM to buy a pair would be, IMO, the Mylars. They will be the final order with them that the CTA had, as well as D/C propulsion. When the time comes many, many years from now, the 5000's will get representation being the first railcars the CTA had with A/C propulsion.

[BusHunter]

You don't have to worry about people uploading pictures, there should be a whole platform end of people taking pictures, especially when they do a fly-by, there will be people with tape recorders, microphones, some doing interviews, and there might be some media there. It should be a truly unique experience. Like pcclcars says, they should be passing around bulletins to the riding public, the only time this happens, there should be several on hand.

Funny in 10 years IRM, hopefully will have #2400's, #2600's and #3200's. If CTA is going through all this for the #2200's, then I see no problem about painting the blue and red end caps of the #2400 series when the time comes. Currently those gray end caps are so dead.

[BusHunter]

I agree that the CTA is not a rolling museum, but a transit system. But look at the past... 4000's, 1-50's, 6000's, 2000's and now 2200's are going to a museum for representation. There must've been something unique with all those series for the museums to buy cars. The 2400's have a place cemented there I'm sure as they are the first order for CTA with sliding doors, the only thing I can think of for the 2600's that make them unique is they are the largest order of railcars for the CTA, spanning most of the 1980's(I don't know if they had full width cabs or not for one man operation their entire service lives). The thing that will make the 3200's unique and maybe when that time comes for a museum like IRM to buy a pair would be, IMO, the Mylars. They will be the final order with them that the CTA had, as well as D/C propulsion. When the time comes many, many years from now, the 5000's will get representation being the first railcars the CTA had with A/C propulsion.

The #6000's are the biggest order 720, 770 if you count the #5-50's. The #2400's have a few things unique like the only backlit car card racks on CTA, and i would say they are the quietest DC car. Seems strange CTA is going with all these AC cars. They must be really worried someone will put an AC car and DC car together. Probably is impossible though, I bet they have different couplers.

[Sam92]

The #6000's are the biggest order 720, 770 if you count the #5-50's. The #2400's have a few things unique like the only backlit car card racks on CTA, and i would say they are the quietest DC car. Seems strange CTA is going with all these AC cars. They must be really worried someone will put an AC car and DC car together. Probably is impossible though, I bet they have different couplers.

All the couplers are the same physically, but what's only so trains could push eah other if they had too. But electronically, they'd have to be in separate trains. Couldn't run a 2600 with a 5000 except if one needs to push another but 5000's and 7000's can since the 7000's will also be AC

[Busjack]

...There must've been something unique with all those series for the museums to buy cars. ...

But they aren't buying the cars just because they were unchanged from when first acquired by the transit system. That's most typified by IRM's CSL fleet, most of which had been converted by CTA to green salt cars, and due to use as salt cars, probably were even more rotten than most. The members restored a couple, but most the rest are in the barns in the condition as acquired. Similarly, 4001 was unique, but IRM got it as a toolshed, and only recently put in on the wrong trucks. There was the discussion about the preserved 4200 L cars that they were repainted to the second color scheme (they were originally dark green, then brown and orange, and then green and cream) and were reupholstered in "authentic" Naugahyde instead of the original velvet plush.

The only motivation I can put behind acquisitions by such groups is that they can get the last at the price of scrap before it becomes scrap, and then decide what to do with it later. Given the advanced electronics in the propulsion systems of the cars acquired by CTA starting in the 80s (or maybe it was the 90s) you wonder what they are going to be able to do if they want to operate one of the sets and it breaks down.

[BusHunter]

#2345-46 is still in the shop and it's number decals have been either removed or covered up. You know this has me thinking, if the last #2200's are going through this much transformation, I wonder if CTA plans to retain some of these as historic cars, like #1892-1992?

Now I see what's going on. The #2200's didn't have number decals originally on the end doors, but on the windows. This first picture shows it without numbers. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8226029@N06/3413172176/in/photolist-6cBpb9-6d4Jx9-6dmdTq-6cZzsc-6d4JYG-6f9GbA-6f9FJL-6f9Gio-6duBP6-6cBpds-6f9FB7-6d4JAs-6f9Ggd-6f9FE7-6cZzvP-6cxgmT-6d4Jg9-24qM4P-5A2kGD-24vfxs-eJTK7R-eJZPXY-eJTLCi-eJZPn3-eJZR2U-eJTL4F-8crhMa-99ZB7Z-6f5vw8-7FHbxL-6f9FW3-6f5w1F-b4vKE8-arxBrF-6cxh84-6cKYd4-6cBq5u-6cQ64s-aqSbBc-6cQ6fj-6f5weH-24pMHB-24vd6s-7Y6aNT-6d4K7G-6cxhct-6cKXUX-6f5wDz-6f5wA2-6fEQp3-6cxhv8

This second picture does show numbers on the doors, but you get to see the numbers on the windows better. So I don't know which is correct, but CTA is saying the ones with no numbers on the doors.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8226029@N06/3441908732/in/photolist-6f9Fy1-6cQ6yE-6cKX26-6cQ691-6cKY9n-6cQ6R9-6duBKX-6dyKh1-8jT7YZ-6dyKx7-7FHbtj-6ciRau-6dmeeG-6fADHr-6d4HRW-6cZzn2-6dyKjA-24pL2e-6dyKtW-6cZziV-6cWr3L-6dmepN-6fACTB-6fENPS-7GFfuo-24vdYL-6eMdvH-24qLHi-6dmetf-24vd31-6dh6a2-6fAEFD-6duBZc-24pLb8-6fEQty-6ezEdg-6fEQhj-6eRpNm-6eMfs2-6fAE3k-6eMfMi-6fAE7D-24qLKn

I don't know how that's going to look with hopper windows though.

[BusHunter]

But they aren't buying the cars just because they were unchanged from when first acquired by the transit system. That's most typified by IRM's CSL fleet, most of which had been converted by CTA to green salt cars, and due to use as salt cars, probably were even more rotten than most. The members restored a couple, but most the rest are in the barns in the condition as acquired. Similarly, 4001 was unique, but IRM got it as a toolshed, and only recently put in on the wrong trucks. There was the discussion about the preserved 4200 L cars that they were repainted to the second color scheme (they were originally dark green, then brown and orange, and then green and cream) and were reupholstered in "authentic" Naugahyde instead of the original velvet plush.

The only motivation I can put behind acquisitions by such groups is that they can get the last at the price of scrap before it becomes scrap, and then decide what to do with it later. Given the advanced electronics in the propulsion systems of the cars acquired by CTA starting in the 80s (or maybe it was the 90s) you wonder what they are going to be able to do if they want to operate one of the sets and it breaks down.

You have to wonder what's going to become of #1892-1992 also. Will they really be used as scrap material, or will they find a way to use them? They could probably be used as belly cars, being towed back and forth by the lead cars. Or they could buy something even more junked up and fix up their train with used parts. In the future IRM is probably going to have to address a bigger platform anyway. Maybe even make a part of their museum for rapid transit, and build a few mock transit stations.

In regards to what livery should be painted on a vehicle. I have no problems with multiple liveries if they have multiple equipment that is similar, like the three sets of #6000's they have or the #5-50's they have.( I believe one of the #5-50's was painted recently to an alpine white/hunter green livery.) Why not show us a piece of history from each period? As far as details that may be harder to achieve like replacing seats from Brown to Green or painting interior metals to match the livery depicted. But that's the challenge of owning a museum.

[Juniorz]

it might be a surprise & the hoppers might not be on the trains. I wanna see just how much historical elements they are going to infuse on these rail cars

[2200SeriesFan]

Glad I just noticed the fb post about the last 2200 series railcar run, so I'll definitely catch that run tomorrow. I hope they do a similar one for the 2400s(maybe w/the final run ending at Linden instead of O'Hare, due to those being very associated w/the Purple Line?), when those are about to be retired in a few years? I'd be surprised if any 2400s are still in service after 2015-2016, but maybe I could be wrong about that.

I knew this point was eventually gonna arrive, and if it wasn't for the defect found in the 5000s that made the CTA recall them all last fall, if this event would've theoretically occurred earlier?

[Ratjeev]

I plan on getting some video and photographs from the trip. In fact, I just published a blog post and video of the 2200s in their final weeks of service: http://chicagopatterns.com/end-of-the-line-for-the-2200-series-cta-cars/

Wonderfully edited video, very professional looking! A+

[Busjack]

... I'd be surprised if any 2400s are still in service after 2015-2016, but maybe I could be wrong about that.

...

I wouldn't bet any longer than late 2014, given that there is already a solicitation to scrap 70 of them. The delivery of the 5000s is supposed to be done by 2015, which, according to CTA, would take out 200 2600s, as well as the 2400s.

[Juniorz]

So basically, we get 2 30 minute Photo opportunities of the whole 8-car. Everybody, this is gonna b crazy with all those cameras tryna get that money shot

[Busjack]

AFAIK, it's the only one preserved so far but that doesn't mean others won't be preserved, especially the last 10 that I believe are not yet under a scrap contract.

...

Hilkevitch's article says that other than the two for IRM, the rest are going to be scrapped.

The embedded video indicates that they will have the original "Air Conditioned" decals and "A Congress Milwaukee" roll signs, but that's it for authenticity.

[jcmorris]

Wonderfully edited video, very professional looking! A+

Thank you for the kind words. I had a lot of fun making it, and am looking forward to tomorrow.

[jcmorris]

I only have videos of them running as part of the Snowflake Special. I'm eager to see pictures and links on here.

Do you have them posted online anywhere?

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Do you have them posted online anywhere?

They are on my Youtube. My channel name is "CrazyAboutA380s"

And I'm not going to lie: your video almost made me tear up...almost. Loved the video!

[BusHunter]

Tonight the cars were out in Rosemont yard beside the shop and then they moved them to the middle of the yard. They all have Congress Milwaukee Red A train signs. Got a good look at the signs, they seem to not be roll signs, they look like they have affixed (I don't want to say taped) some signs over the sign box. The signs are very deep red, something about them doesn't seem real. I guess we'll see them better tomorrow. The trains still have hopper windows and the number decals haven't been changed to show on the windows like I depicted earlier. (They just removed the door number signs that's it.) #2345-46 has been turned into a goodbye old friends car too, but it's over by the stored cars. I guess if they need it, it's there.The bubble I mentioned the other day says goodbye 2200 series cars, they served us for 44 years (or something to that effect) That's on every first side window. i didn't see a teardrop, but they had a #2600 parked in front of the set. Also they looked like they cleaned the cars exteriors, they all were very shiny. So the cars upgrades were very simple changes.

[Juniorz]

BusHunter, any preview photos

[Juniorz]

The Preview of the grand final

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T9LAN-VXiw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[BusHunter]

BusHunter, any preview photos

Just go up to post #444, the Tribune link shows the cars. (What is up with those roll signs?)

BTW, you see that green decal on the blinker door. What is that for?

[Busjack]

Just go up to post #444, the Tribune link shows the cars. (What is up with those roll signs?)

BTW, you see that green decal on the blinker door. What is that for?

The roll signs are the original ones for the West Northwest route, and reflect AB service when Congress was A and Douglas was B.

There isn't enough of a closeup on the door. However, what it might be is that the Lake-Dan Ryan 2000s and 2200s had bar codes to sort the trains at Tower 12 automatically. Instead of Identra, there must have been some sort of reader at Wabash-Adams to trigger the switch to send them south instead of onto Van Buren. Krambles's book mentions that at page 72, and that the bar codes were superseded by transponders similar to Identra (which are part of the 7000 specs).

I was looking for the fleet number to see if it was originally a Lake-Dan Ryan car and noted that it was taken off the door, which was the original configuration.