Those Were the Days

[artthouwill]

I found some videos on Youtube that brought back memories for me. I didn't shoot any of these but I thought I'd share with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHzta-FQyU4

I added one more at the bottom

[Busjack]

The first one explains how trains "turned around" at Jackson Park; they didn't, but the operator changed ends and the diamonds determined the routing. Also, for those of you commenting about the current Mr. CTA messages, that video is typical of the "level of diction" on the CTA before him.

The second one must have been taken immediately prior to the swap of the south branches of the Howard route (in that the train progresses beyond 18th Junction). Probably what was stranger from my perspective was the first time I took an Orange Line train from the Loop, which was taking the route that used to be used by the Dan Ryan.

[RJL6000]

The first video was filmed sometime between 1974 and 1977, when the North-South Route was equipped entirely with 6000-series equipment (of both the original flat-door and the later curved-door varieties) and before the arrival of the then-new 2400-series cars (yes, when the 2400s were first put into full revenue service in 1977, they were assigned to the North-South, West-Northwest and Ravenswood lines). And judging by the style of the windows of the car the filmmaker was riding in, he obviously filmed the movie from a curved-door 6000 (the more common of the two styles of 6000s)--and in this case, that particular car had a divider between the conductor's area and the seating area with the door controls on only one corner of the car, indicating that it was a car in the #6201-#6470 group, which were delivered in 1954 and 1955 (the North-South Route also had a few curved-door 6000-series units with the conductor's position on both corners of the odd-numbered car in the unit--units numbered #6471 and higher, which were delivered beginning in 1956). It should be noted that cars #6201 and higher were rebuilt (by the St. Louis Car Company) from Chicago's retired "Green Hornet" streetcars, which were built in the mid-to-late 1940s by both the St. Louis Car Company and Pullman-Standard. (Most of the Pullman-built Green Hornets were rebuilt into cars in the #6201-#6470 group while cars #6471-#6720 and their related single-car units #1-#50 were largely rebuilt from the St. Louis-built Green Hornets.) The CTA retired its nearly-new Green Hornets early because of ridership shifts and the desire to replace streetcars with buses in the early 1950s (although they were phased out of service rather than abruptly retired, with the last streetcars operating into 1958; also note that the last remaining streetcars were sent directly to the scrappers rather than turned over to St. Louis for conversion).

The remnants of a platform just to the west of the now-demolished IC bridge were once part of the Dorchester station, which was closed in 1973. When they dismantled the station sometime in 1974, they removed the mezzanine, the staircases, the canopies and the wood decking but left the platform supports in situ.

[BusHunter]

The first video was filmed sometime between 1974 and 1977, when the North-South Route was equipped entirely with 6000-series equipment (of both the original flat-door and the later curved-door varieties) and before the arrival of the then-new 2400-series cars (yes, when the 2400s were first put into full revenue service in 1977, they were assigned to the North-South, West-Northwest and Ravenswood lines).

Do you know what numbers were assigned where for #2400's in 1977? The best I can come up with was #2401 - #2459 for the ravenswood, and #2501 - #2600 for the west-northwest. I'm guessing #2460 - #2500 for the North-South. I think the #2400's were taken off the west-northwest when the #2601- #2700 Budd cars arrived there. There is a site that has old pictures of the #2400's in that era. I think the same site has a picture of PCC's sitting at St. Louis car awaiting remanufacture to become PCC "L" cars. They also have a great representation of #6000 series pictures and #5 - 50's pictures. Here's the link to that site One thing I find interesting about the #6000's, is when they were delivered most of #6201 - #6720 was for a little while on the North-South. (12/1/57 -7/1/58) About 486 cars in all on the N-S.!! 464 #6000's the rest possibly #4000's.(the #6000's weren't all delivered yet) Why did they need so many? In 1962 they reported to have 518 cars on that one line. I think that's the most they ever had.

[Busjack]

Why did they need so many? In 1962 they reported to have 518 cars on that one line. I think that's the most they ever had.

Ridership took a tumble since then. Also, the south part didn't have "competition" with the Dan Ryan until 1969. You can see from the first video that even when RJL said that the video was taken, service on the Jackson Park branch was frequent with 8 car trains, not the 4 or 6 cars every 20 minutes you now have.

[ibebobo]

Does the CTA have any of the historic trains anymore?

[sw4400]

Of course, if you want a real trip down memory lane, these videos might be just for you...

[RJL6000]

Do you know what numbers were assigned where for #2400's in 1977? The best I can come up with was #2401 - #2459 for the ravenswood, and #2501 - #2600 for the west-northwest. I'm guessing #2460 - #2500 for the North-South. I think the #2400's were taken off the west-northwest when the #2601- #2700 Budd cars arrived there. There is a site that has old pictures of the #2400's in that era.

In 1977, #2401 - #2434 were assigned to the Ravenswood, while #2435 - at least #2518 were assigned to the North-South. Also, unit #2599-2600 was not the last one delivered to the CTA; the last ones that were actually delivered were eight cars numbered #2493 - #2500.

One thing I find interesting about the #6000's, is when they were delivered most of #6201 - #6720 was for a little while on the North-South. (12/1/57 -7/1/58) About 486 cars in all on the N-S.!! 464 #6000's the rest possibly #4000's.(the #6000's weren't all delivered yet)

The remainder of the cars that were assigned to the North-South in 1958 were a few cars in the #6001 - #6200 group. At the time, the majority of that group of cars (the original "flat-door" 6000's from 1950-51) were assigned to the Garfield and Douglas lines (the West-Northwest Route did not come into existence until June 22 of that year, and the Douglas line was one of two CTA lines in 1958 which had both 6000's and 4000's, which in turn did run on the Garfield Line during the mid-1950s). In 1958, the Ravenswood had a few PCC 'L' cars, but was equipped mostly with 4000's. The Evanston, Lake and Logan Square (Milwaukee) lines were equipped entirely with 4000's. When the West-Northwest Route was created, that line ran with both 6000's and 4000's (although most 4000's were sent to the Douglas branch instead of the Congress branch).

Around the time the delivery of the last 6000's (#6719-20) was completed, the higher-numbered 6000's were swapped to the West-Northwest Route in exchange for that line's flat-door 6000's; by that time, many of the single-unit #1 - #50 cars were also assigned to the West-Northwest. By the early '60s, the original 6000's which were on the West-Northwest Route a few years back were now used on the North-South Route. Eventually, by the late '60s, the 6000's numbered #6511 - #6720 were all assigned to the West-Northwest Route.

Also in that first video were the remnants of the 1907 northbound track. The CTA removed that track from revenue service in 1949, but it continued to serve as the storage track for the now-defunct Kenwood line until that line ceased operating in late 1957. The track's deteriorated remnants remained in place at least until the late 1970s.

[BusHunter]

and we can't forget in the early 90's most of the #6600-#6700's were on the Ravenswood before final retirement. About 60 cars I'm told existed from the last delivery of #3199-#3200 to the arrival of the #3200's. On the site I gave a link for above there's a picture of #6139 on the Lake- Dan ryan. Did that line really have #6000's at one point?

[sht6131]

and we can't forget in the early 90's most of the #6600-#6700's were on the Ravenswood before final retirement. About 60 cars I'm told existed from the last delivery of #3199-#3200 to the arrival of the #3200's. On the site I gave a link for above there's a picture of #6139 on the Lake- Dan ryan. Did that line really have #6000's at one point?

This is just a guess. It might be a photo stop as notice the fresh paint job and the run# XX1

[artthouwill]

Here is one more.

[pudgym29]

And we can't forget in the early 90's most of the #6600-#6700's were on the Ravenswood before final retirement. About 60 cars I'm told existed from the last delivery of #3199-#3200 to the arrival of the #3200's. On the site I gave a link for above there's a picture of #6139 on the Lake- Dan Ryan. Did that line really have #6000's at one point?

No. Lake-Dan Ryan always had air conditioned cars exclusively. That picture must be from a railfan trip.

Most of my Sundays in the mid-to-late 1970s were spent with me having a Sunday SuperTransfer and sending myself to the far limits of the entire CTA system; including routes and lines that maybe a caucasian kid should not be riding.

West-Northwest strived to run with only air-conditioned cars {the 2200s } on Sundays, but a handful of times on the Douglas branch, 54th Ave yard would pull out one of the 6600s in Bicentennial livery and send it out for a run. 6709-10 & 6711-12 (Marquis de Lafayette & George Washington respectively) were trains I rode.

But nearly every Sunday, I would wind up at the Howard terminus {"North Shore National Bank - Use your transfer time to bank with us."}. On a few Sundays in summer, it would actually occur that four car trains on the North-South Line would be insufficient, and Howard yard would add a third pair to the train set. Don't let Division 308 know this, but on those occasions; I would very often be the person on the train connecting the chains between the second and third pairs, and putting up the chains on the rear door. (It was in the station with its doors open. Maybe it wasn't the next train out, but you could get on it.)

[BusHunter]

No. Lake-Dan Ryan always had air conditioned cars exclusively. That picture must be from a railfan trip.

Most of my Sundays in the mid-to-late 1970s were spent with me having a Sunday SuperTransfer and sending myself to the far limits of the entire CTA system; including routes and lines that maybe a caucasian kid should not be riding.

West-Northwest strived to run with only air-conditioned cars {the 2200s } on Sundays, but a handful of times on the Douglas branch, 54th Ave yard would pull out one of the 6600s in Bicentennial livery and send it out for a run. 6709-10 & 6711-12 (Marquis de Lafayette & George Washington respectively) were trains I rode.

But nearly every Sunday, I would wind up at the Howard terminus {"North Shore National Bank - Use your transfer time to bank with us."}. On a few Sundays in summer, it would actually occur that four car trains on the North-South Line would be insufficient, and Howard yard would add a third pair to the train set. Don't let Division 308 know this, but on those occasions; I would very often be the person on the train connecting the chains between the second and third pairs, and putting up the chains on the rear door. (It was in the station with its doors open. Maybe it wasn't the next train out, but you could get on it.)

Most of what I remember about the #6000's on west-northwest in the 80's would be the #6000's ran only in rush hour only in 8 car sets. I remember riding in the motor cabs of cars that doubled as passenger seating (#6471 - something I'm forgetting that)at first then those seem to disappear. Speaking of those cabs I thought I may have read on chicago l.org that the #2200's had those as well. This I don't remember. I remember the last days of the #6000's, on the purple line they had #6093-94 still in alpine green and white livery. I think that was one of the last cars like that. It would be nice to see it pass by.

[Busjack]

I remember riding in the motor cabs of cars that doubled as passenger seating (#6471 - something I'm forgetting that)at first then those seem to disappear. Speaking of those cabs I thought I may have read on chicago l.org that the #2200's had those as well. This I don't remember.

All of the cars from 6001-2180 had regular cabs, but the door swung so that it could be locked over the front window (and controller) and a bench seat could be pulled down from the back of the cab for passengers. The lower 6200s (CERA says through 6470) had a similar arrangement for conductor cabs, one in each car, but not a cab door, and the conductors had to cross between cars if the platform was on the other side.

The 2200s also allowed opening the cab, but were different in that there was a half wall at the back of the cab that was swung over the side window, and then that was locked in place by swinging the cab door over the front window. Hence, in cars 2 through 8 of a train, it didn't look like there was a cab.

In 1-50, there was a dedicated cab at each end and a sliding cover over the window the operator used to talk with passengers (sort of like the burglar shades on city storefronts). Theoretically the cabs were locked, but if the sliding cover wasn't down, passengers managed to get into the unused cabs. IIRC, Ravenswood single units with those cabs still had a conductor station opposite the back cab of the odd car of a numerically sequenced pair, so the conductor wouldn't have to switch cars, given all the left and right side platforms on that line.

The locked cab didn't start until the 2400s, and that was done because some of the control buttons were on the ceiling.

As far as your prior comment about how many cars they had in the old days, I also remember when the Evanston Express went from trolley 4000s to third rail 6000s, and wondered at the time how CTA could cover while taking (Krambles said 74) 4000s off that line. Apparently, though, demand then had reduced enough that the 6000s could cover with no sweat. Likewise Krambles's book said when the 3200s started arriving that another car order would be needed to replace some of the remaining 2000s and the single units, but that turned out not to be the case, although a few of the single units hung on a couple of more years, presumably because of FTA life considerations after they were rehabbed.

[ibebobo]

Are there any historical trains left? What about the fan trips they used to have?

[Busjack]

Are there any historical trains left? What about the fan trips they used to have?

This question is probably limited to what is the status of 4271-4272, which Krambles reported were repainted in the orange and brown scheme.

The "SSRT" 2000s are "on display" in front of Skokie Shops, and I believe that the heritage 6000s (with the orange belt rails) are at train museums. Fox Valley roster. IRM roster. The Fox Valley newsletters usually have quite complex stories about what it takes to get one of the old cars running.

Update: A web search found this account of a fan trip with 4271-4272 on a fan trip in 1999, intimating that that would be about the last one, although further searching found this page by rmadisonwi of them running on the Skokie Swift right before the overhead came down.

[busfan2847]

Update: A web search found this account of a fan trip with 4271-4272 on a fan trip in 1999, intimating that that would be about the last one, although further searching found this page by rmadisonwi of them running on the Skokie Swift right before the overhead came down.

[pudgym29]

Somebody needs to inform me of the specific month; but for all the years of the late 1970s when I rode the West-Northwest Line to | from UIC[C], the flat-door 6000s were always marshalled into the second pair of a three-pair train {six cars} ~ such that I can't remember when West-Northwest began running four-pair trains. But it wasn't then.

I am fairly certain that all the station platforms on West-Northwest could handle an eight-car train, but since CTA only staffed most of the west side "L" stations during weekday daylight hours, two-car trains ruled the roost (for on-board fare collection).

[RJL6000]

Somebody needs to inform me of the specific month; but for all the years of the late 1970s when I rode the West-Northwest Line to | from UIC[C], the flat-door 6000s were always marshalled into the second pair of a three-pair train {six cars} ~ such that I can't remember when West-Northwest began running four-pair trains. But it wasn't then.

I am fairly certain that all the station platforms on West-Northwest could handle an eight-car train, but since CTA only staffed most of the west side "L" stations during weekday daylight hours, two-car trains ruled the roost (for on-board fare collection).

In the case of three-pair (six-car) consists during weekday rush hours on some West-Northwest runs during the 1970's, those six-car runs were mainly limited to Douglas-Milwaukee runs--and any original "flat-door" 6000's that were assigned to the West-Northwest Route at the time (I think cars #6101 to at least #6108 were modified with the window guards, in addition to the entire #6511 - #6720 group) were usually limited to Douglas-Milwaukee runs (the newer Congress branch tended to always use curved-door 6000s when whomever was in charge of the route marshalled the 6000-series cars). That was because the old Cicero station on the Douglas branch was wedged between 47th Place and Cicero Avenue and could not accomodate an eight-car train (and even with six-car trains, the doors on one end or the other of that consist ended up not being "usable" at that station). That changed in 1978 with the opening of a new Cicero station on the west side of Cicero Avenue, which forced the closure of the old Cicero station and the 50th Avenue station to the west (with the components of the latter station eventually ending up at IRM, where it was reassembled).

The Congress-Milwaukee runs, on the other hand, usually operated eight-car trains during rush periods from the through-routing's 1958 inception.

Speaking of the IRM, it has in its collection one pair each of flat-door 6000's (#6125-26), first-gen curved-door 6000's (#6461-62) and later-gen curved-door 6000's (#6655-56)--and yes, #6655-56 operated on the West-Northwest Route from around 1959 to 1987 when it was transferred to its final line, the Ravenswood. (By that time, the Ravenswood ran 6000's only during weekday rush periods; at all other times the line was operated exclusively with 2600-series cars. The 3200's did not arrive on the Rave in large numbers until after the 6000's were retired.) Flat-door unit #6101-02 is at the FRTM.

[RJL6000]

...I believe that the heritage 6000s (with the orange belt rails) are at train museums.

Only one such unit was "restored" to its "heritage" status while still on CTA property: #6101-02 (which is now at FRTM, as noted above).

Part of another 6000-series unit, #6461 (of the #6461-62 unit) was repainted to its heritage colors after the unit had already arrived at IRM. And of course, who would forget car #28 (also repainted in its original colors after it had already left CTA property) of the related single-car #1 - #50 series (which were built at the same time as the last of the 6000's), which now operates at its new home, the East Troy Railroad in East Troy, Wisconsin? (#28 was first sold by the CTA to Trolley Car '86 in Appleton, Wisconsin, whose assets were later bought out by the East Troy Railroad. The repainting of #28 occurred while in East Troy's possession.)

[Busjack]

As I mentioned elsewhere the 2010 CTA Historical Calendar is up.

At least it explains why the curved part of the Paulina Connector appeared to be in better shape than the rest of the structure, which was replaced before it became part of the Pink Line.

[RJL6000]

As I mentioned elsewhere the 2010 CTA Historical Calendar is up.

At least it explains why the curved part of the Paulina Connector appeared to be in better shape than the rest of the structure, which was replaced before it became part of the Pink Line.

Yes, the curved part of the Paulina Connector was not original to the Metropolitan West Side Elevated's construction of the Northwest Branch. It was constructed in 1953 and 1954 specifically to allow Douglas trains to directly access the Lake Street line during the construction of the Eisenhower Expressway and the replacement median-strip rapid transit line (now the Forest Park leg of the Blue Line) within. Today, the Connector has come full-circle, with Pink Line trains using it (and Pink Line trains use the Inner Loop, as Douglas trains used it from 1954 to 1958--but now clockwise instead of counterclockwise as it was back in the 1950's).

[BusHunter]

Yes, the curved part of the Paulina Connector was not original to the Metropolitan West Side Elevated's construction of the Northwest Branch. It was constructed in 1953 and 1954 specifically to allow Douglas trains to directly access the Lake Street line during the construction of the Eisenhower Expressway and the replacement median-strip rapid transit line (now the Forest Park leg of the Blue Line) within. Today, the Connector has come full-circle, with Pink Line trains using it (and Pink Line trains use the Inner Loop, as Douglas trains used it from 1954 to 1958--but now clockwise instead of counterclockwise as it was back in the 1950's).

Remember when the lake street branch was constructed along with the metropolitan service's Logan branch, that those would be rival companies in the late 1890's. Each company was in competition with each other, that's probably why they didn't link up there other than a passenger connection.

[artthouwill]

Remember when the lake street branch was constructed along with the metropolitan service's Logan branch, that those would be rival companies in the late 1890's. Each company was in competition with each other, that's probably why they didn't link up there other than a passenger connection.

I believe there is a picture on the www.chicago-l.org website with a picture of the two stations. On the Lake St line it was called Lake Transfer. The MET line tracks ran above the Lake street tracks, but there were stairs on both sides of the Met that you could access to go down to either side of the Lake St station.

[Busjack]

I believe there is a picture on the www.chicago-l.org website with a picture of the two stations. On the Lake St line it was called Lake Transfer. The MET line tracks ran above the Lake street tracks, but there were stairs on both sides of the Met that you could access to go down to either side of the Lake St station.

At least the calendar shows the Logan Square platforms.

Probably Insull had control of both at least over 100 years ago, but with various reports that the Lake Street was already in reorganization by then, there probably was no financial incentive to connect the lines.