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RJL6000

West Division - Changes & Restructuring

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The public hearing is always good for clarification. However, did they have any explanation for apparently backing down on the notice that 303 will not go to North and 9th (will on Saturday) and your prior statement that Jewel and Target did not want the bus in their lot?

No confirmation on the latter. I was merely guessing at that based on what happened at Yorktown for a month in 2008. Pace did reach an agreement with the owners with the Target and Jewel property to continue to have at least limited bus service directly into the lot.

Also, no explanation for the weekday-only 303/325 merger other than the mere fact that 325 does not currently operate on weekends. Hence, the combination will be for weekday service only. This means unless changes are made between now and June, the service reductions will take place some time in June. This also means that if I were to take Pace to Jewel and/or Target and/or Winston Plaza on weekdays, I would have to transfer to Route 318 at 19th/North for the trip east. For the return trip back south, I would have to cross busy and dangerous North Avenue for the westbound 318 to 19th Avenue and transfer to a south/east-bound 303 (and cross busy and dangerous North Avenue for the second time in short order in the process), or take an eastbound 318 all the way through River Forest and Oak Park to the Forest Park CTA Blue Line terminal to transfer to the north/west-bound 303 (a longer and circuitous trip).

Saturday and Sunday Route 303 service will not operate north of North Avenue. Instead, these trips will continue to operate to the Target/Jewel strip.

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I just got back from the public hearing. What has been proposed is exactly as your wishes were -- at least for four of the routes.

Did the Pace officials say when these changes will go in? How many people were there at the hearing?

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Revisiting this thread:

Yes, about 40 people showed up at the meeting. In the end, all of the changes were approved at the board meeting that took place some time after the public meeting.

Per the Pace web site under Passenger Notices, the changes will take effect on June 12-13. Several other Pace West routes that are not directly addressed at the January public hearing will also have schedule adjustments as well.

Just as I suspected, all weekday 303 service will operate between the Forest Park and the Rosemont Blue Line stations and will not serve the Jewel-Osco or Target at North/9th. This will result in Pace bus service operating along the current 325 north of North Avenue all the way until past 10 p.m. Monday through Friday. Saturday and Sunday 303 service will remain the same as it is currently. Route 325 will be discontinued in both number and name as there will no longer be bus service on 25th Avenue south of North Avenue (the portion of the current 325 north of North Avenue will be part of the newly reconfigured 303). 303 on weekdays will operate in 30-minute intervals instead of the current 40-minute headways during rush periods. The name of 303 will be changed from "Madison - 19th" to "Forest Park - Rosemont".

Because of the changes in 303 weekday service, most weekday 317/17 and 310 trips will also have schedule adjustments. Also, due to the discontinuation of 325, 322 will no longer pull into the Broadview Square shopping center; passengers must board or exit the bus on 22nd Street. The early morning and late evening shuttle runs that operate weekdays and Saturdays only between North Riverside and the 54th Avenue Pink Line terminal will not operate during the times that the CTA operates its Route 21 west of 54th Avenue to North Riverside. And Saturday service on 322 will be improved, with daytime trip frequency increased from the current 60 minutes to 30 minutes and service to and from Yorktown running until past 10 p.m.

And because the 304 will no longer operate east of North Riverside, the 304's routing at the east end of the route will be modified slightly to provide a connection to the 307: It will no longer pull directly into the mall's lot from 26th Street - but will instead continue east on 26th Street to Harlem Avenue before turning north, and then will turn west on 25th Street from Harlem into the mall's lot. This will provide a better transfer point with northbound 307 buses. Westbound 304 routing from the mall's parking lot will be the reverse of the eastbound routing, again to provide a better transfer to and from Route 307. 304 will also get a route name change, from "Cicero - LaGrange" to "North Riverside - LaGrange".

And because Route 320 will operate during rush periods only, there will be no westbound buses going into the Maybrook Courthouse after 9 a.m.

Other changes include the improvement of weekday service on 302 and 315 (frequency of mid-day service will be 45 minutes instead of one hour).

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Because of the changes in 303 weekday service, most weekday 317/17 and 310 trips will also have schedule adjustments.

Putting together the 303, 310, and 317 schedules, the effect midday is that service on Madison up to19th gets improved to every 15 minutes from 20.

Of course, in the future, one will have to put together 3 schedules instead of relying on the combined one for the 3 routes.

I'm somewhat surprised that they "took resources" freed from the announced 304 and 322 cuts to put them somewhere else (i.e. extending service span north of North Ave. and frequency on Madison).

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Putting together the 303, 310, and 317 schedules, the effect midday is that service on Madison up to19th gets improved to every 15 minutes from 20.

Of course, in the future, one will have to put together 3 schedules instead of relying on the combined one for the 3 routes.

For the first, not really. Westbound between 9 a.m. and 2 p.m., service intervals on Madison will be irregular. A northbound 303 will leave Forest Park on the :08, while a westbound 310 will leave Forest Park on the :23 and a westbound 317 will leave Forest Park on the :46. Thus, 15 minutes after a 303 will be a 310, and then another 23 minutes later a 317. Then, the next 303 will be 22 minutes after a 317. And due to the variances in the traffic, the intervals will be 23 minutes between a 310 and a 317 and between a 317 and a 303, and 14 minutes between a 303 and a 310.

And there will be three separate timetables for the three routes (or four, counting the CTA Route 17) when the changes go into effect.

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You didn't cite the 303 at :38, but I guess I missed that a few are missing that time midday, and that after 317 starts at :53, it goes to :46.

So, the interaction of the 3 routes is not as tight as previously, or as I thought.

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This weekend the new changes at west are going into effect. In addition to the Pace website, there issueing out schedule brochures at west dictating all the changes. I've been noticing bus signs in odd places, like #304 signs at 26th/Harlem in Riverside and #303 signs at 25th Avenue and North in Melrose Pk. I guess some of the routes are being rerouted also.

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I've been noticing bus signs in odd places, like #304 signs at 26th/Harlem in Riverside and #303 signs at 25th Avenue and North in Melrose Pk. I guess some of the routes are being rerouted also.

That stuff was all mentioned in the various Passenger Notices on their website, especially this one.

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I was at the Jewel-Osco at 9th/North yesterday afternoon, and saw a couple of people trying to catch a 303 from there. I had to warn them that weekday 303 service now no longer serves the shopping strip - they would have to take the 318 and transfer. That morning, one 303 trip actually went into the strip's parking lot (the driver did not realize the service had been changed).

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I was at the Jewel-Osco at 9th/North yesterday afternoon, and saw a couple of people trying to catch a 303 from there. I had to warn them that weekday 303 service now no longer serves the shopping strip - they would have to take the 318 and transfer. That morning, one 303 trip actually went into the strip's parking lot (the driver did not realize the service had been changed).

wow. I remember when something like that happened when the South Side LSD routes were restructured and the 14 replaced the 6 on Jeffery laugh.gif

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I was at the Jewel-Osco at 9th/North yesterday afternoon, and saw a couple of people trying to catch a 303 from there. I had to warn them that weekday 303 service now no longer serves the shopping strip - they would have to take the 318 and transfer. That morning, one 303 trip actually went into the strip's parking lot (the driver did not realize the service had been changed).

Have they taken the bus stop signs down from over there? That's probably one reason why.

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Have they taken the bus stop signs down from over there? That's probably one reason why.

The weekend service still goes there so they wouldn't take the signs down for that reason apparently. The people in that area will just have to learn and get used to the restructurings. It's going to be a learning experience for all involved apparently from the other post about the driver who wasn't aware of the weekday change.

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The weekend service still goes there so they wouldn't take the signs down for that reason apparently.

I haven't been out there, but normal practice would be to tape something on the sign to say Sat and Sun only.

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Have they taken the bus stop signs down from over there? That's probably one reason why.

The signs are still there - but with the words "WEEKEND ONLY" next to the route number.

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In even "more forthcoming," there is a proposal to merge 747 into 301. I suppose that the net effect, besides a very long Roosevelt route, is loss of the express portion of 747 between Wolf and Des Plaines Ave.

Most of the current EB trips on Rt 747 operate via Roosevelt anyway, mainly due to the congestion on the Eisenhower. During rush hours, the ramp from Roosevelt Rd (just west of I-294) leading to the Eisenhower is closed which forces the reroute anyway. On these occasions, the driver usually drops off passengers along Roosevelt Rd between Manheim and Desplaines Ave (though they do not pick up). It will mean the WB trips will be a bit longer. I am going to guess that the "realignment" will mean that the only 301 trips that will end at Wolf/Harrison will be Proviso West school trips (especially since the 310 terminates at the same place), and the future 301 trips will continue along Roosevelt to York Rd and run the remainder of what is the current 747. The question will become what will the frequency of the new 301 be? Will it run half hour rush service between the Blue Line and the Oak Brook Mall, and hourly service west of there at all times of operation? Will the new 301 run between 308 trips, so service between Forest Park and 1st Ave are at 15 minute intervals during rush instead of both buses nearly running together 1/2 hour apart?

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Most of the current EB trips on Rt 747 operate via Roosevelt anyway, mainly due to the congestion on the Eisenhower. During rush hours, the ramp from Roosevelt Rd (just west of I-294) leading to the Eisenhower is closed which forces the reroute anyway. On these occasions, the driver usually drops off passengers along Roosevelt Rd between Manheim and Desplaines Ave (though they do not pick up). It will mean the WB trips will be a bit longer. I am going to guess that the "realignment" will mean that the only 301 trips that will end at Wolf/Harrison will be Proviso West school trips (especially since the 310 terminates at the same place), and the future 301 trips will continue along Roosevelt to York Rd and run the remainder of what is the current 747. The question will become what will the frequency of the new 301 be? Will it run half hour rush service between the Blue Line and the Oak Brook Mall, and hourly service west of there at all times of operation? Will the new 301 run between 308 trips, so service between Forest Park and 1st Ave are at 15 minute intervals during rush instead of both buses nearly running together 1/2 hour apart?

Also, since the route operates west of Oak Brook Center on weekdays only, expect weekend (Saturday and Sunday) service to operate only between Forest Park and Oak Brook. (Though if something changes, limited weekend service might run west of Oak Brook.) That way, it will make for a better connection with the #322. (Currently, Sunday #301 service terminates at Wolf/Harrison, where there is no other Pace route operating on that day.)

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Also, since the route operates west of Oak Brook Center on weekdays only, expect weekend (Saturday and Sunday) service to operate only between Forest Park and Oak Brook. (Though if something changes, limited weekend service might run west of Oak Brook.) That way, it will make for a better connection with the #322. (Currently, Sunday #301 service terminates at Wolf/Harrison, where there is no other Pace route operating on that day.)

I wonder if the #301 would continue to serve Wolf/Harrison. If so it would make a #747 even slower than it is today. Maybe a limited stop rush service similar to #270 would help.

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I wonder if the #301 would continue to serve Wolf/Harrison. If so it would make a #747 even slower than it is today. Maybe a limited stop rush service similar to #270 would help.

Good question, and I guess we won't know for sure until the boards go up at the hearing.

However, if the Saturday map is any indication, the route would be through Hillside to Butterfield to York, not straight Roosevelt, especially since a Park and Ride is indicated in Hillside.

Also, Proviso West would need to be served, although other restructurings didn't affect school runs.

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I wonder if the #301 would continue to serve Wolf/Harrison. If so it would make a #747 even slower than it is today. Maybe a limited stop rush service similar to #270 would help.

My thinking is that it wouldn't (although I don't know) except for school runs. In theory it could, based on its Saturday schedule. Besides, I think you risk either overcrowding, or even a loss of ridership due to the increased travel time on the 747 portion of the combined route. I think the primary reason for the combo is that the 747 already uses Roosevelt more often than the expressway due to congestion. There were probably some complaints along Roosevelt that the 747 was dropping off passengers but not picking up.

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I just looked at the planned changes for the 301-747 restructuring, and discovered that the changes will apply on weekdays only. Saturday and Sunday 301 service will remain unchanged - which means that Sunday 301 trips will still end at Wolf/Harrison while most Saturday 301 trips will continue to serve the Oak Brook shopping center.

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I just looked at the planned changes for the 301-747 restructuring, and discovered that the changes will apply on weekdays only. ...

We assumed as much, as weekend service had already been ended on 747.

However, was there anything to answer BusHunter's question (re the routing between Wolf and York)?

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The other new thing in the Public Hearing Notice (and implied in the budget announcement) is that the part in Winfield-Wheaton would be replaced by a Call and Ride, and route 301 would apparently terminate in Wheaton.

Makes sense. Remember, though, that originally there was Route 712 to the Courthouse, but that was canned because of low ridership, and replaced by the extension of 747, which was retained, even though the further extension to Charlestowne was terminated.

In general, though, I support these community transit alternatives to long, and poorly patronized extensions of the main route.

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The other new thing in the Public Hearing Notice (and implied in the budget announcement) is that the part in Winfield-Wheaton would be replaced by a Call and Ride, and route 301 would apparently terminate in Wheaton.

Makes sense. Remember, though, that originally there was Route 712 to the Courthouse, but that was canned because of low ridership, and replaced by the extension of 747, which was retained, even though the further extension to Charlestowne was terminated.

In general, though, I support these community transit alternatives to long, and poorly patronized extensions of the main route.

It just doesn't sound as if there's enough ridership support to go all the way out to the Dupage Courthouse. Pace has tried everything and it just hasn't worked so this makes logical sense for the very few people that do go out there.

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I just looked at the planned changes for the 301-747 restructuring, and discovered that the changes will apply on weekdays only. Saturday and Sunday 301 service will remain unchanged - which means that Sunday 301 trips will still end at Wolf/Harrison while most Saturday 301 trips will continue to serve the Oak Brook shopping center.

are c

This seems to imply that the Saturday routing of the will be the new weekday routing as well when the 301 and 747 are combined.

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