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7000-series - Procurement

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33 minutes ago, ThirdRailVision said:

Also, what's up with the skyline panorama on the ceiling? Seems a bit futile to me. 

If you mean behind the monkey bars, I think that is the representation of the flat screen display system, the substitute for the punched mylar sign with red LEDs behind it in the 5000s. Note that that the 5000s style map isn't continued over the destination sign box on the side window.

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9 hours ago, Juniorz said:

This is a manufacturing plant, so I'm too sure that security will be available to greet individuals that attempt to make that unauthorized move.

One a brighter note, here are more views of the revised rendering of the 7000-series

71 (1).jpg

71 (4).jpg

These cars are so boring. It's a slightly nicer 5000 which was a slightly nicer 3200 which was a slightly nicer 2600, etc. I wish government agencies weren't so stuck in their ways and could innovate. 

The one feature I wish they had was passenger operated door opening buttons like you see in Europe. It would be nice to not sit at a station in the winter with the doors open for 5 minutes. 

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1 hour ago, joechicago said:

These cars are so boring. It's a slightly nicer 5000 which was a slightly nicer 3200 which was a slightly nicer 2600, etc. I wish government agencies weren't so stuck in their ways and could innovate. 

The one feature I wish they had was passenger operated door opening buttons like you see in Europe. It would be nice to not sit at a station in the winter with the doors open for 5 minutes. 

Yeah I see your point, but CTA most likely is requesting something with interchangeable parts that are similar to keep down with the repair costs. They should at least get the new blue tint headlights, I believe most vehicles built now have this. Even saw an 18 wheeler cab with one this morning. Yes I wish they were different also maybe some snazzier skinny type headlights that wrap around the front but CTA with it's 40 foot car design doesn't leave much in the way of choices as you are locked into that design. Maybe an articulated train would be nice, but then again they had problems with the #5000's of the 40's. They were hard to repair and had to be disconnected to do so, so CTA is probably too scared to go back there. You are also locked into this corrugated silver sides design thanks to the vandals which vandalize anything painted. So basically that doesn't leave you much choice. Unfortunately this will probably be the last cars most of us will see here, if the cars last 40 years, I'll be 81 and Busjack will be about 100!! xD

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18 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Probably mixing fleets is a nightmare scenario. If one car set failed and needed to be pushed by the follower which had another set they can't be linked together. This could also happen on the loop L that would make one wonder how these fleets will work out. 

As they said at the time they yanked the first 7000s spec, they lived with it for 4  years on the Red Line. Also the second spec provided that if Tomlinson couplers were proposed, an adapter would have to be provided for each car for that contingency. Nobody has said whether CTA accepted any alternatives in the solicitation.

I indicated that I didn't think 7000s on the Red Line were likely, but it isn't like CTA didn't foresee the situation.

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What I don't get is the need for a 600-700 plus car capacity yards on the red when they only use 400 now and are projected to use 484. So why have a 200  car spare ratio? You know they almost would have room for a skokie shops south.

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1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

What I don't get is the need for a 600-700 plus car capacity yards on the red when they only use 400 now and are projected to use 484. So why have a 200  car spare ratio? You know they almost would have room for a skokie shops south.

Are you also adding in that Howard also has most of Purple (and 6 Yellow)?

It the L Rosters page is correct, Green and Pink have a total of 214 cars, which means that there are already 500 cars assigned to Red-Purple-Yellow. I don't know when CTA made its projections whether it figured it had or needs to get cars for the extension and any increase in trains it promised for when the Clark Jct. flyover is completed, but considering that the fleet has already gone up from 1190 (before the 5000s started arriving) to 1470 something, CTA has to store them somewhere, even if it isn't using them.

 

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On 3/20/2017 at 11:27 AM, BusHunter said:

I'm starting to like how they look but if they take the blue ends off you basically have a 5000. Unfortunately that's probably what will happen. I wonder how the mta keeps it's car ends clean?

I like how these cars look they look like a updated 2200 series car which is awesome. I also like how cta still keeping the traditional look besides the slight change of the end caps (not including the blue) I for 1 am not ready for a radical change to the exterior just yet and it seems cta isn't either lol. The interior looks cool cool except for that single back to back seat on the right. Hopefully this is the final design the black hopper windows look awesome as well ????.

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21 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

except for that single back to back seat on the right

They said before the first spec came out that the contractor had to use the revised seating layout, so if that conforms to it, that's it.

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On 3/20/2017 at 8:37 AM, Juniorz said:

This is a manufacturing plant, so I'm too sure that security will be available to greet individuals that attempt to make that unauthorized move.

One a brighter note, here are more views of the revised rendering of the 7000-series

71 (1).jpg

71 (4).jpg

Whoops! Missed the party by about 2 months, but I thought I'd throw in a few comments. In general, I'm glad some features of the 5000s are being carried over (the door lights and emergency glow strips)

1. Those light ring things around the head and taillights look cool. I wonder if they switch between white and red depending on the direction of the train. Maybe it would help with visibility.
2. Those extra lights in the center must be a CSR/CRRC thing as they're appearing on other company built trains. Personally I like the light arch from the 2400s and 2600s, but that's OLD.
3. The seats are blue, but the plastic walls are the older beige color. Probably subject to change.
4. I'm wondering how they're going to use that LCD screen. It has a lot more display real estate than the FIND system in New York.
5. More color! The 5000 style straps now stand out more, as does the cab end of the cars.
6 So much vitamin water.... :P

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9 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

. I'm wondering how they're going to use that LCD screen. It has a lot more display real estate than the FIND system in New York.

I mentioned that earlier. That's the dynamic flat screen map, replacing the mylar map with the holes for the red LEDs, not seen in this depiction over the side destination sign in the center windows.

The rest are conjecture, although you seem better acquainted with CRRC cars than I am. For instance, I am unable to conclude whether the surrounds on the lights are LEDs or just bezels. I can buy LEDs.

 

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9 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

Whoops! Missed the party by about 2 months, but I thought I'd throw in a few comments. In general, I'm glad some features of the 5000s are being carried over (the door lights and emergency glow strips)

1. Those light ring things around the head and taillights look cool. I wonder if they switch between white and red depending on the direction of the train. Maybe it would help with visibility.
2. Those extra lights in the center must be a CSR/CRRC thing as they're appearing on other company built trains. Personally I like the light arch from the 2400s and 2600s, but that's OLD.
3. The seats are blue, but the plastic walls are the older beige color. Probably subject to change.
4. I'm wondering how they're going to use that LCD screen. It has a lot more display real estate than the FIND system in New York.
5. More color! The 5000 style straps now stand out more, as does the cab end of the cars.
6 So much vitamin water.... :P

Still too many sideways seats. Note the pair on each side that are cut off at the front of the photo. Those seats should be facing the rest of the car.

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I visited Boston in 2007 and rode all the "colors" except the Mattapan/Ashmont trolley(closed for repairs).

Two things hurt my heart:

1) MBTA had eliminated their elevated lines

2) The Red, Orange, and Blue line cars all had aisle facing seats

I like the new car and hope to go back and ride them.

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58 minutes ago, chicagopcclcar said:

Aisle facing seats is the norm in Boston and New York and that might be where the long-gone CTA engineers got their ideas from. The seating debate duplicated the seating debate  of the 1910s when the first of the Cincinnati Car Company 4000 series debuted in Chicago and the cars had "bowling alley seats." CRT went back to transversal seating. That style remained through the years until the 3200 series were adopted in the 90s. That series featured a wider aisle and single seats on one side. The proposed 7000 series will go back to that seating. Photo....A 4001 series rail car built in 1914..

DH 

Scan 15.jpeg

Note that the old Cincinnati car doesn't have those stanchions making it impossible for fat people to adjust to width. That's the worst problem as every 5000 & every 4150 & up artic bus has empty spaces due to that.

The second worst problem on the 5000s are the bums who sleep over five seats at a time.

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Reflecting angst over Trump and China, Tribune article on whether the trade war is impeding or not includes:

The proposed tariffs on Chinese imports could also affect a Chicago Transit Authority contract to replace about half the rail cars in the agency’s fleet — the biggest purchase in its history.

The CTA awarded the $1.3 billion contract two years ago to CRRC Sifang America, and a facility to make the rail cars is under construction in the city’s Hegewisch neighborhood on the Southeast Side. But certain parts for the rail cars, which are expected to be delivered starting at the end of 2019, will be made in China, and potentially subject to the tariff on goods entering the U.S.

In a statement, CTA spokesman Brian Steele said the agency is “looking into the possible impacts, if any, of the proposed tariffs on our current railcar contract.”

Of course, Bombardier was using Chinese parts, too.

 

 

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On 4/5/2018 at 11:49 AM, Busjack said:

Reflecting angst over Trump and China, Tribune article on whether the trade war is impeding or not includes:

The proposed tariffs on Chinese imports could also affect a Chicago Transit Authority contract to replace about half the rail cars in the agency’s fleet — the biggest purchase in its history.

The CTA awarded the $1.3 billion contract two years ago to CRRC Sifang America, and a facility to make the rail cars is under construction in the city’s Hegewisch neighborhood on the Southeast Side. But certain parts for the rail cars, which are expected to be delivered starting at the end of 2019, will be made in China, and potentially subject to the tariff on goods entering the U.S.

In a statement, CTA spokesman Brian Steele said the agency is “looking into the possible impacts, if any, of the proposed tariffs on our current railcar contract.”

Of course, Bombardier was using Chinese parts, too.

 

 

Greg Hinz at Chicago Business has an article that the Chinese deal could be iffy due to new legislation in Congress & Trump's tariffs.

https://goo.gl/XxY69b

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4 hours ago, strictures said:

Greg Hinz at Chicago Business has an article that the Chinese deal could be iffy due to new legislation in Congress & Trump's tariffs.

https://goo.gl/XxY69b

The article notes that it is hard to take the bill seriously, including that Congress doesn't have the authority to void existing contracts. Anything aimed at China would also impact MBTA.

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Both Crain's & the Tribune are reporting that Mayor Emanuel is going to China next week, in an attempt to salvage the deal to build the 7000s in Chicago.

Apparently there are serious concerns that Trump's tariffs will kill the deal due to Chinese retaliation.

Part of me would like to see it killed, because the 7000s won't be compatible with the 5000s & the rehabbed 3200s.

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18 minutes ago, strictures said:

the rehabbed 3200s.

Nothing is going to be compatible with them. Emanuel's secret deal to have Bombardier rebuild them as compatible with 5000s fell through, once it was no longer secret.

18 minutes ago, strictures said:

Apparently there are serious concerns that Trump's tariffs will kill the deal due to Chinese retaliation

The issue isn't Chinese retaliation. The issue, stated by Crain's, is that the cars use a mixture including Chinese parts, and hence U.S. tariffs to import them to Hegewisch. Only direct connection to retaliation is that since the tariffs have been imposed on China, China threatened retaliation, and Trump threatened quadruple U.S. retaliation to that.

If you think Bombardier is a fallback, not only did CTA withdraw the RFP calling for compatible cars, but the product quality issue with Bombardier was that it used defective Chinese parts. Hence, if the trade war goes on, any rail car builder (and they are all foreign owned) would have to solicit all its parts in the U.S., not just the 69% promised on this deal (there also being trade wars with Canada, Mexico, and the EU).

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3 hours ago, chicagopcclcar said:

A betting man would wager that the Chinese rail cars will be assigned first to the _________ line! Take care.

DH

Some concept art showed Pink Line destinations on the signs.  The Pink Line was the first to get the 5000s, and considering the Pink Line is the least used line (other than the Yellow Line), perhaps it would be a good line to test the cars on.  I actually thought CTA might actually convert the Pink and Green Lines to 7000s and use their 5000s for the Red Line expansion.

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9 hours ago, Pink Jazz said:

  I actually thought CTA might actually convert the Pink and Green Lines to 7000s and use their 5000s for the Red Line expansion.

The question on that is when? There isn't the immediate need, as CTA says it is constricted by Clark Jct., until such time as it gets the flyover built. It might need them for the 130th extension, but that seems like something like 2023, if ever. It also looks like the Red Line already got its expansion, as it got the about 80 cars that the second round of sources said would go to the Orange Line.

However, I do agree with you to the extent that the last 190 options for 7000s are for "expansion," and if the expansions are as I described above, I doubt  that CTA would run a mixed fleet on the Red Line.

9 hours ago, Pink Jazz said:

Some concept art showed Pink Line destinations on the signs.

All of the renderings of the 5000s showed FOREST PARK in blue big dot LED signs, and we now know neither happened.

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9 hours ago, rvwnsd said:

Nice display. They should put them in the L cars.

 

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Don't think the ceiling is high enough on the L cars.  Notice these signs are in the front half of the bus where the floor is low.

They are putting something like that in the 7000s. Look at the interior sketches.

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Considering the Blue is operating some runs of 5000-series with Pink Line equipment plus the fact that the Pink and Green Lines often borrow each others' cars, I actually wonder if CTA will assign a common fleet to the Blue, Pink, and Green Lines, while assigning the other series to the Red, Purple and Yellow Lines, with Brown and/or Orange getting either series.  I think this could actually make sense.

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