Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[Railwaymodeler]

Quick question. Did they tell you that your free ride Ventra card was set to expire June 30 when they mailed it out to you?

Yes, and I think there is something printed on it to that effect too. June 30 is also when my old magnetic card was set to expire too, so I think the Ventra card was merely to replace my existing magnetic card.

I was not only told by someone I talked to at the RTA that my existing Ventra card would be good through September now, but a trainman on a Metra train told me there was a bulletin downtown that said that too.

I did try the 800 number for the Ventra card, and was unable to talk to a "real" human being. I also hate these computerized phone systems with a passion.

[Busjack]

Somewhat related, the reference to Metrolinx indicates that it is an Ontario provincial agency, which has taken over GO Transit, and that is has, throughout the southeast part of the province, instituted the PRESTO card. However, it appears that Accenture is getting heat for its role in the project.

Differences between here and there:

• PRESTO is a tap on tap off system, and there are instructions in case you fail to tap off.
• Backwards from what is being done here, PRESTO started on the trains and small bus operators,and is only being gradually phased into the TTC subway and surface systems.

[Railwaymodeler]

I got my new Ventra card the other day. It got sent to my dad's house by mistake (I lived with him briefly before moving to Kenosha. He is also payee for my SSI, mostly because he is much better at keeping track of that and insurance than I ever will be), and he activated it for me before he brought it up for me.

We'll see if this one works.

[BusHunter]

Just letting you guys know Ventra ripped me off yesterday. I had taken a bus to a rail station (no issues) I had a pass that was set to expire in 8 hours, so I put the money in the Ventra machine at the rail station. I enter the station and while waiting for my train I setup the next pass to be in queue. I find out I cannot do this because Ventra has just charged me $2.25 to enter the station. All my pass data was deleted!! So not only was I ripped off the 8 hours, I was charged $2.25 on top of it. I had to re exit the station put more money on my card set up a pass wait for it to be in queue and then I was on my way. First time I've been ripped off on a pass!! Next time I put money on a card before I enter the station I'm going to setup my card wait for it to be in queue and then enter the station. I can't do nothing about being ripped off the time, but at least then I can stop the fraudulent charges placed against me.

[Busjack]

Just letting you guys know Ventra ripped me off yesterday. I had taken a bus to a rail station (no issues) I had a pass that was set to expire in 8 hours, so I put the money in the Ventra machine at the rail station. I enter the station and while waiting for my train I setup the next pass to be in queue. I find out I cannot do this because Ventra has just charged me $2.25 to enter the station. All my pass data was deleted!! So not only was I ripped off the 8 hours, I was charged $2.25 on top of it. I had to re exit the station put more money on my card set up a pass wait for it to be in queue and then I was on my way. First time I've been ripped off on a pass!! Next time I put money on a card before I enter the station I'm going to setup my card wait for it to be in queue and then enter the station. I can't do nothing about being ripped off the time, but at least then I can stop the fraudulent charges placed against me.

The issue raised by some people is that the server doesn't instantaneously get the information from the vending machine, strange as that may seem.

Let us know how long you stay on hold for the 800 operator to figure this one out.

[BusHunter]

The issue raised by some people is that the server doesn't instantaneously get the information from the vending machine, strange as that may seem.

Let us know how long you stay on hold for the 800 operator to figure this one out.

Not worth my time.

[jajuan]

The issue raised by some people is that the server doesn't instantaneously get the information from the vending machine, strange as that may seem.

Let us know how long you stay on hold for the 800 operator to figure this one out.

Yeah as I recall I think it was mentioned it could take up to 20 minutes for money added to the transit value or a new pass waiting in queue to appear which is why I do either the day before at minimum as a precaution. But that still shouldn't have deleted his pass that had eight hours left before expiration.

[busfan2847]

My new September Ventra Link-Up Card showed as being expired the first time I used it Yesterday. Took it back to Metra and apparently it is not the first to show expired!

[Railwaymodeler]

Since I just realized I never said if the new card works or not, yes it does. In fact, it hasn't once failed to read so far. Though I do realize I probably just jinxed myself.

[busfan2847]

My new September Ventra Link-Up Card showed as being expired the first time I used it Yesterday. Took it back to Metra and apparently it is not the first to show expired!

It now appears that every September Link Up Ventra card has failed in exactly the same way always on a Monday morning but not the same Monday. Everyone I know who uses LinkUp has had the card fail this month - "Card expired".

Metra has been replacing the cards with new ones, even this week. The new ones will undoubtedly have 30 days validity - cta will loose a lost of money on this if everyone gets them replaced! Bus drivers are allowing people on with faulty cards, if they show them the month sticker Metra attaches to the back of the card. Just like old times with the LinkUp sticker on your monthly, however now you have two pieces of card not one!

They have also changed the latest LinkUp cards. New cards have rounded corners. Previous cards had square corners.

[Tcmetro]

Metra claims to accept Ventra because the debit card function can be used to buy tickets at TVMs and ticket offices:

http://chi.streetsblog.org/2014/09/25/metra-says-it-already-welcomes-ventra-no-not-really/

[Busjack]

Metra claims to accept Ventra because the debit card function can be used to buy tickets at TVMs and ticket offices:

http://chi.streetsblog.org/2014/09/25/metra-says-it-already-welcomes-ventra-no-not-really/

As the post indicates, only in the sense of possibly bare compliance with the law, which is par for the course of most transit agencies here, and especially for the finest commuter railroad of the 19th Century.

The Aug. 2014 Minutes seem to be the most recent update, which indicates that Metra has a lot of work to do.

As an aside, if you want further proof that nobody gives a blank about the law,* those minutes (second paragraph) also indicate that a double dipper was just appointed to the Metra Board, even though they only way they got O'Halloran to resign was double dipping (unless being Village President does not pay).

_____________

*70 ILCS 3615/3B.01( c ): No director, while serving as such, shall be an officer, a member of the board of directors or trustee or an employee of any transportation agency, or be an employee of the State of Illinois or any department or agency thereof, or of any county, municipality, or any other unit of local government or receive any compensation from any elected or appointed office under the Constitution and laws of Illinois.

[Busjack]

I see that my renewed Chase ATM/Debit card doesn't have a "blink" logo on it, so I guess Chase has given up on that problem, including the Ventra problem.

It doesn't seem to have the European chip. either.

[MRChiCity]

Speaking of Venture cards? How do CTA/PACE Bus operators log into those, through the fare-box?

[ArcherRider]

Speaking of Venture cards? How do CTA/PACE Bus operators log into those, through the fare-box?

I do not how does PACE does it but CTA Bus operators use the Clever Device to log in and change the Ventra Reader in front of them.

[strictures]

I do not how does PACE does it but CTA Bus operators use the Clever Device to log in and change the Ventra Reader in front of them.

And there's been some kind of problem with CTA drivers logging in this week.

I've been on several buses in the last few days where the driver had to repeated login, then the display reverted to the "PLEASE LOGIN" screen.

That beeping is really annoying!

[brownliner]

 

I see that my renewed Chase ATM/Debit card doesn't have a "blink" logo on it, so I guess Chase has given up on that problem, including the Ventra problem.

It doesn't seem to have the European chip. either.

 

Chase has stopped issuing cards with the touchless stuff. No one uses it, even when both parties support it, and the transaction amount is under the limit. Really, swiping a card just isnt' that hard.

[Busjack]

Chase has stopped issuing cards with the touchless stuff. No one uses it, even when both parties support it, and the transaction amount is under the limit. Really, swiping a card just isnt' that hard.

Except the whole point wasn't the choice of swiping or tapping at McDonalds, but that the tap of any RFID card was supposed to be the universal means of paying transit fares (Ventra readers not having swipe slots). But when Chase said that "if Ventra stuck you (such as when people tapped their wallets and the reader found the Chase card before the Ventra card) come to your branch and we'll have it reversed," it is not a surprise that Chase decided not to mess with this.

Anyway, as Kevin previously discussed, the cards with the European style chips are going to supplant the swipe and presumably RFID cards. Kevin previously posted a picture of the readers needed for that kind of card. I noted that Target quickly converted its readers to that type shortly after the hacking, although, surprisingly, Jewel-Osco has not yet.

[brownliner]

 

Except the whole point wasn't the choice of swiping or tapping at McDonalds, but that the tap of any RFID card was supposed to be the universal means of paying transit fares (Ventra readers not having swipe slots). But when Chase said that "if Ventra stuck you (such as when people tapped their wallets and the reader found the Chase card before the Ventra card) come to your branch and we'll have it reversed," it is not a surprise that Chase decided not to mess with this.

Anyway, as Kevin previously discussed, the cards with the European style chips are going to supplant the swipe and presumably RFID cards. Kevin previously posted a picture of the readers needed for that kind of card. I noted that Target quickly converted its readers to that type shortly after the hacking, although, surprisingly, Jewel-Osco has not yet.

 

ventra has nothing to do with the decision to not continue offering the cards. That they cost substantially more than non contactless cards, and no one uses them is. If the readers were everywhere, people might use them. They're not, so you have to pay attention. Easier to just swipe.

EMV supports contactless cards, which are used almost nowhere. Swiping or dipping a card just isn't that hard. And if my experience with contactless cards is typical, they're less reliable than swiping.

[Busjack]

   

ventra has nothing to do with the decision to not continue offering the cards. That they cost substantially more than non contactless cards, and no one uses them is. If the readers were everywhere, people might use them. They're not, so you have to pay attention. Easier to just swipe.

EMV supports contactless cards, which are used almost nowhere. Swiping or dipping a card just isn't that hard. And if my experience with contactless cards is typical, they're less reliable than swiping.

But, because of fraud, the feds say that merchants have to do away with the swipe cards by this time next year (e.g., this article). So, your defense of the swipe card is short lived.

[Kevin]

EMV supports contactless cards, which are used almost nowhere. Swiping or dipping a card just isn't that hard. And if my experience with contactless cards is typical, they're less reliable than swiping.

Used almost nowhere in the US. Europe and even Canada are another story. I was at a Shoppers Drug Mart in Toronto a couple weeks ago and they had to put signs on all the terminals to let people know that contactless wasn't working. Even still, someone tried using it and the cashier had to tell her it was broken.

Mobile payments is where contactless could really take off. Apple's implementation of EMVCo tokenization is arguably more secure then even chip cards, and I'm sure Android will follow suit with a similar implementation soon. The timing is perfect, since almost all new EMV readers also support contactless.

Where this leaves Ventra as an open payment system is unknown. Tokenization means that your actual credit card number is never used. It's replaced with a different number that's assigned to your phone. That number would change if you got a new phone or if the number was replaced by the issuer for any reason. Since Ventra uses solely the card number to track passes or stored fare value, you could be SOL if your number gets changed. Ventra already warns of this possibility when using a bank card.

[jajuan]

Except the whole point wasn't the choice of swiping or tapping at McDonalds, but that the tap of any RFID card was supposed to be the universal means of paying transit fares (Ventra readers not having swipe slots). But when Chase said that "if Ventra stuck you (such as when people tapped their wallets and the reader found the Chase card before the Ventra card) come to your branch and we'll have it reversed," it is not a surprise that Chase decided not to mess with this.

Anyway, as Kevin previously discussed, the cards with the European style chips are going to supplant the swipe and presumably RFID cards. Kevin previously posted a picture of the readers needed for that kind of card. I noted that Target quickly converted its readers to that type shortly after the hacking, although, surprisingly, Jewel-Osco has not yet.

If you're speaking of those black Verifone card readers, yes actually Jewel has begun converting to readers like those seen in Target. The Jewel-Osco a few blocks from where I live has had them since its remodeling a few months ago.

[Busjack]

...

Mobile payments is where contactless could really take off. Apple's implementation of EMVCo tokenization is arguably more secure then even chip cards, and I'm sure Android will follow suit with a similar implementation soon. The timing is perfect, since almost all new EMV readers also support contactless.

Where this leaves Ventra as an open payment system is unknown. Tokenization means that your actual credit card number is never used. It's replaced with a different number that's assigned to your phone. That number would change if you got a new phone or if the number was replaced by the issuer for any reason. Since Ventra uses solely the card number to track passes or stored fare value, you could be SOL if your number gets changed. Ventra already warns of this possibility when using a bank card.

That gets down to the "Ventra app," which Metra demonstrated to the CT Board last week.

Apparently that was developed by NICTD so you could show the conductor that you were paid from Gary to 57th (Aug. Minutes). Update: SunTimes has an article that the Metra board approved a contract with Cubic to develop the app, but it appears to work as I indicated (still need to show the screen to the conductorO.

While someone proved that Google Wallet would interact with Ventra readers, one would now have to assume that that was only for cash fares, not transit accounts (with transfers). Thus, the need for an actual Ventra app.

Since apps are your business, how hard would it be to write one? And does the open system mean everyone is going to need a smart phone to have open access to the L? That doesn't seem that open.

....

Edited, see below.

[Busjack]

If you're speaking of those black Verifone card readers, yes actually Jewel has begun converting to readers like those seen in Target. The Jewel-Osco a few blocks from where I live has had them since its remodeling a few months ago.

I just checked my local Jewel, and they have been changed.

BTW, Kevin O'Connor is at the wheel lathe again, now.

[jajuan]

That gets down to the "Ventra app," which Metra demonstrated to the CT Board last week.

Apparently that was developed by NICTD so you could show the conductor that you were paid from Gary to 57th (Aug. Minutes). Update: SunTimes has an article that the Metra board approved a contract with Cubic to develop the app, but it appears to work as I indicated (still need to show the screen to the conductorO.

While someone proved that Google Wallet would interact with Ventra readers, one would now have to assume that that was only for cash fares, not transit accounts (with transfers). Thus, the need for an actual Ventra app.

Since apps are your business, how hard would it be to write one? And does the open system mean everyone is going to need a smart phone to have open access to the L? That doesn't seem that open.

I'll have to check my local one again, but as of last week it hadn't.

The remodels (I assume you mean the barn board look) has been very erratic. A couple of Jewels near me have been remodeled for about the 3rd time (The Albertson's brown, orange and gold look; the SuperValu wine beer and spirits look, and the barn board look), while a former Dominick's hasn't been touched.

Yeah it started with the remodels. But they've also begun placing new readers within stores that haven't yet gone through a remodel, which New Albertson's has said just about all of the stores will undergo eventually.