Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[Busjack]

Has anybody witnessed this "0 Deadhead" on your card history page?

That's been commented on before. 0 used to mean that the route was not entered in the farebox. Then we had the discussion whether a bus is in service even though it is to or from the garage. Did you board anything like that?

[Pace831]

From observation of anomalies in the transaction history, I think "0" is what is entered while actually deadheading, and appears in transaction history when the operator does not update the route number before boarding passengers. For the same reason, the wrong route number may be displayed if you board a run that has been on a different route earlier. If no route is entered, you will see "CTA Bus Default" (shown above) or "Pace Route".

Edited November 14, 2015 by Pace831
Clarification

[Kevin]

So the app is out, although of course I have 6 rides left on my Metra paper ticket that I rarely use.

I did purchase a one-way Metra ticket using the app. It was fairly straightforward, although the app is a bit rough around the edges and uses some non-conventional design patterns. I used a credit card to pay for the ticket, but you can also use your Ventra account balance or transit benefit balance.

The tickets are stored locally on your device and don't require a network connection to use them. Although I haven't used the ticket yet, my understanding is that they're simply an animation with a background color that changes upon tapping the screen to prove authenticity. It's a rather low tech implementation, but I'll gladly take it over waiting in lines and carrying around a piece of paper that the conductor punches like it's 1892.

[Pace831]

So the app is out, although of course I have 6 rides left on my Metra paper ticket that I rarely use.

I did purchase a one-way Metra ticket using the app. It was fairly straightforward, although the app is a bit rough around the edges and uses some non-conventional design patterns. I used a credit card to pay for the ticket, but you can also use your Ventra account balance or transit benefit balance.

The tickets are stored locally on your device and don't require a network connection to use them. Although I haven't used the ticket yet, my understanding is that they're simply an animation with a background color that changes upon tapping the screen to prove authenticity. It's a rather low tech implementation, but I'll gladly take it over waiting in lines and carrying around a piece of paper that the conductor punches like it's 1892.

When Metra conductors collect fares from the app, is there something special they have to do to confirm they are the conductor? In other words, is there a chance that someone could accidentally tap the screen and lose the ticket because the app then considers it collected?

[Kevin]

When Metra conductors collect fares from the app, is there something special they have to do to confirm they are the conductor? In other words, is there a chance that someone could accidentally tap the screen and lose the ticket because the app then considers it collected?

The tickets are good throughout the duration of the ride (based on scheduled trip duration for the zone in question). Once activating, you can switch to other apps and still bring up the active ticket throughout your ride.

See also: FAQ page, which has a page specifically about using Metra tickets.

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Kevin
Removed CTA Twitter conversation embed since this forum text editor is a buggy piece of junk. Not that I'm bitter

[Busjack]

See also: FAQ page, which has a page specifically about using Metra tickets.

 

 

That indicated that tapping the ticket only changed the animation to assure that the ticket was genuine, as opposed to I suppose someone using a paint program to create one.

The FAQ page didn't seem completely clear whether you can buy a half fare ticket through the app, just that showing a virtual ticket was not enough and you had to show your RTA permit to the conductor, instead of having the permit embedded in the app.

[Pace831]

So I asked a friend who had early access to the app about this. Both he and CTA chimed in. Short answer: The tickets are good through the duration of the ride. Once activating, you can switch to other apps and still bring up the active ticket throughout your ride.

See also: FAQ page, which has a page specifically about using Metra tickets.

 

 

That's interesting. From what I read in the Tribune about the test period, it sounded like the ticket would be instantly "punched" when someone touches the screen. Maybe that was the case for the trial app but has been improved. I assume there is an "Are you sure?" prompt before the ticket is activated to prevent the situation I asked about. I bet a lot of conductors won't bother to check the "color change" feature though. It would slow down fare collection too much if they did.

[Kevin]

I assume there is an "Are you sure?" prompt before the ticket is activated to prevent the situation I asked about. I bet a lot of conductors won't bother to check the "color change" feature though. It would slow down fare collection too much if they did.

Yep, there's a confirmation prompt before activating. I plan to just tap the screen myself to trigger the color change as the conductor comes by.

The FAQ page didn't seem completely clear whether you can buy a half fare ticket through the app, just that showing a virtual ticket was not enough and you had to show your RTA permit to the conductor, instead of having the permit embedded in the app.

There are options to buy senior, disability, student, and military fares. As you noted, the app warns that you must also present an RTA permit in order to use those tickets.

[Busjack]

... I bet a lot of conductors won't bother to check the "color change" feature though. It would slow down fare collection too much if they did.

Maybe not the color change per se, but the whole issue gets down to whether a conductor needs a substitute for sticking a paper ticket into the clip on the seat. It may be one thing if everyone is going downtown, another if someone with the illustrated C-E ticket is still on the train in Zone H.

Come to think of it, I bet it is real fun for the conductor to inspect virtual tickets for riders on the upper level.

I wonder if trainman can chime in on whether the conductors got any training on this.*

_____

*2 puns.

[Pace831]

Maybe not the color change per se, but the whole issue gets down to whether a conductor needs a substitute for sticking a paper ticket into the clip on the seat. It may be one thing if everyone is going downtown, another if someone with the illustrated C-E ticket is still on the train in Zone H.

Come to think of it, I bet it is real fun for the conductor to inspect virtual tickets for riders on the upper level.

I wonder if trainman can chime in on whether the conductors got any training on this.*

_____

*2 puns.

I don't think there will much of an effect on fare fraud. Someone determined to beat the system can do the same tricks with a paper ticket. The one new trick that people may try is to buy a reduced fare ticket in hopes that the conductor won't notice they aren't eligible. They rarely ask for ID when presented with paper reduced fare tickets, but presumably the ticket agent did check. 

On the upper level collection, people are going to pull their phone away before the conductor can verify the ticket, again slowing down fare collection. I personally would be afraid of dropping my phone if I were sitting there. The best thing is to do the "color check" yourself as Kevin said he'd do.

[Busjack]

...

On the upper level collection, people are going to pull their phone away before the conductor can verify the ticket, again slowing down fare collection. I personally would be afraid of dropping my phone if I were sitting there. The best thing is to do the "color check" yourself as Kevin said he'd do.

As I indicated, it wasn't so much the color check as the zone check.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

It appears the FAQ page answered my question about tickets on delayed trains. Good to know, since the trains I'm familiar with don't ever seem to be on time.

[garmon757]

 

Features of the app including transit tracker and check your card!

[BusHunter]

There's so many popups at ventrachicago.com that the last two months I've been using primarily the machines as the net version is unusable. I couldn't even find out a cards expiration. it's so much easier at the machines

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, BusHunter said:

There's so many popups at ventrachicago.com that the last two months I've been using primarily the machines as the net version is unusable. I couldn't even find out a cards expiration. it's so much easier at the machines

Can you clarify what pop ups you're seeing at ventrachicago.com?

[BusHunter]

1 minute ago, Kevin said:

Can you clarify what pop ups you're seeing at ventrachicago.com?

For the new app. Mostly problems on my Android phone, I can use the website on my pc, but alot of times the time you would want to check something is while you are mobile.

[Pace831]

Here's an example of the generic "Pace Route". In this case the cause seemed to be that the operator was unable to log in properly. She and the driver she was relieving spent about 5 minutes trying to figure it out until they called someone to get a solution, which had something to do with keys. During this process the sign went from normal to "TO Garage" to blank and then back to normal when they figured it out. Then once the bus got to Stateville I saw the operator pushing buttons and the Ventra reader changed to "Not in use", and remained that way for the rest of the trip. Nothing happened on the return trip on the same bus.

Whatever was going on, I had to pay an extra quarter because of it, since transfers in Joliet are supposed to be free!

[MetroShadow]

On 11/23/2015, 4:25:49, Pace831 said:

Here's an example of the generic "Pace Route". In this case the cause seemed to be that the operator was unable to log in properly. She and the driver she was relieving spent about 5 minutes trying to figure it out until they called someone to get a solution, which had something to do with keys. During this process the sign went from normal to "TO Garage" to blank and then back to normal when they figured it out. Then once the bus got to Stateville I saw the operator pushing buttons and the Ventra reader changed to "Not in use", and remained that way for the rest of the trip. Nothing happened on the return trip on the same bus.

Whatever was going on, I had to pay an extra quarter because of it, since transfers in Joliet are supposed to be free!

Me thinks they've still been working that issue out.

As for the app itself, I've been on the testing side of the app over the last year; and the only issue I have seen/heard on the android side was trying to access the app from the app store; wasn't so much the functionality (then again, this was last month). With the iPhone side, I've had to break the thing in order to see if it works, and the good news is that it was functional to use and easy to access (save for a slow server or an issue with the placement of where the farecards could be made). Glad that the transition went well.

/and I'm proud that I caught the stop ID malfunction early in testing mode.
// Only one of us in the forum lives in Phoenix and really have no use for CTA service at Sky Harbor Airport.

[Pace831]

6 minutes ago, Busjack said:

 sw had a write up about his dealing with Ventra sales behind the Customer Service counter at Jewel. but the Jewels by me don't carry it.

Putting them in Ventra stations requires an intergovernmental agreement, and, as you note, most suburban Ventra stations don't have TVRs, basically because Metra does not accept the card.

 

By the way, the legislature mandated a universal card system, including contact cards, by Jan. 1, 2015.However, I doubt that the contemptible  General Assembly will hold the RTA in contempt.

"The system must allow consumers to use
contactless credit cards, debit cards, and prepaid cards to pay
for all fixed-route public transportation services."

Metra's interpretation of this was that they already are in compliance because of the prepaid debit function of a Ventra card, also that the law doesn't specify that the same card must be valid at all three agencies. As you likely remember, that argument was shot down, especially considering that anyone getting on outside of downtown after morning hours has no choice but to pay cash.

[Pace831]

30 minutes ago, Busjack said:

sw had a write up about his dealing with Ventra sales behind the Customer Service counter at Jewel.

Here's that post.

[MarioM]

7 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The first incentive was when they stopped issuing paper transfers. The reason for not doing the fare increase at that time probably had something to do with people in far suburbs lacking access to a place to add value to their card, other than online. There are still more people than we realize without internet at home, especially seniors who are an important bus-riding demographic. Out here in Joliet, most people didn't get a card until a week or two before they stopped issuing transfers. Even 6 months later, there were still a good number of people who were surprised to hear there were no more transfers, despite the outreach campaigns.

If you have a credit/debit card, you can add transit value and passes by phone (regular voice phone, not new-fangled smart phones) by calling 1-877-NOW-VENT,  You can also order a card or register a card over the phone.

[Busjack]

Get it back to the correct topic:

13 hours ago, Pace831 said:

"The system must allow consumers to use
contactless credit cards, debit cards, and prepaid cards to pay
for all fixed-route public transportation services."

Metra's interpretation of this was that they already are in compliance because of the prepaid debit function of a Ventra card, also that the law doesn't specify that the same card must be valid at all three agencies. As you likely remember, that argument was shot down, especially considering that anyone getting on outside of downtown after morning hours has no choice but to pay cash.

"All" means "all." Also, this was part of a paragraph on a required "regional fare payment system".

As you noted, the debit card argument didn't fly, and it is being disclaimed that the app meets the requirement.

For that matter, where is the regional transfer policy required by the preceding paragraph of the law (rhetorical question)? Mike Payne wants to know.

6 hours ago, MarioM said:

If you have a credit/debit card, you can add transit value and passes by phone (regular voice phone, not new-fangled smart phones) by calling 1-877-NOW-VENT,  You can also order a card or register a card over the phone.

Cubic thanks you for the commercial,. Mario. If you had read what preceded your post, will calling them get $1.75 transferred immediately to your transit value, or do you have to transfer $5 and risk the dormancy fee? And does Ventra ship a card by drone immediately when you need it? The point of the original post was that vending means (TVRs and merchants) were not as available in the suburbs.

[jajuan]

9 hours ago, MarioM said:

If you have a credit/debit card, you can add transit value and passes by phone (regular voice phone, not new-fangled smart phones) by calling 1-877-NOW-VENT,  You can also order a card or register a card over the phone.

You only have to get past the mistrust some folks have about their credit/debit card info being shared by phone. And Busjack reminded us that the system was supposed to be completely universal as of this past Friday. So on that side of it, are the Ventra readers even compatible with the newer updated chips that banks have been installing in credit and debit cards since the big data breach debacles with Target and a few other retailers occurred over a year ago? 

[Busjack]

22 minutes ago, jajuan said:

You only have to get past the mistrust some folks have about their credit/debit card info being shared by phone. And Busjack reminded us that the system was supposed to be completely universal as of this past Friday. So on that side of it, are the Ventra readers even compatible with the newer updated chips that banks have been installing in credit and debit cards since the big data breach debacles with Target and a few other retailers occurred over a year ago? 

As of a year ago last Friday.

On the reader point, Scooter Libbby pointed out on the CTA Tattler that these were not EMV chips. However, given how  slow boarding is already, I don't see how transit could wait for the time it takes for the chip to get the info it needs,* and then give the user the message that one can remove the card from the slot.

*A receipt I got from Trader Joe's has five return codes.

[BusHunter]

The way they make your smart phone a Ventra machine in these ads, I would bet that they will phase out some machines soon. It's getting where if you don't have a smart phone or debit card you can't ride the bus or train.