Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[jajuan]

The bus operators are supposed to be able to check to see if your card is valid if say for instance someone boarded with a bogus card with nothing on it/expired pass. Whether they have time to conduct court has yet to be seen. I did see a bus tonight with the ventra card reader saying not in use. I have been told the vending machines at the CTA rail stations will give you a receipt but I have yet to dig deeper into that. Like i said before CTA should pass you by if your card doesn't work initially but probably in the future they might check the card out, but that might slow down operations. (at least that's my concern)

Bought my Ventra Card loaded with a CTA 7-day pass from the Howard Red Line station's Ventra vending machine, and yes the vending machines do give you a receipt upon you pressing yes at the "Would you like a receipt?" prompt. I did the registration through my smart phone while sitting on a 22 Clark bus that was on layover. That was actually quick and painless, and the $5 fee I got charged at the vending machine did get credited to card as a transit value within two seconds of me logging into my transit account after registering my card. The 7-day pass was also shown in the pass queue ready for use upon my first successful tap. I was pleasantly surprised to find purchase process itself was quite seamless. It took me less than five minutes to complete the transaction. The registration took me maybe another five minutes. So far so good in my personal Ventra transition.

The key there was "after waiving their wallet," instead of "tapping their card."

But after having debated what would be charged if the reader encountered two, I guess we now have an answer. Of course, the most expensive one.

Anyway, see the DePaul tweets embedded in the article.

And the Ventra site does explicitly say that you have to take the card out of your wallet and swipe it alone against the Ventra reader or else tapping a wallet or purse like with Chicago Card or CCP will result in either your debit card or credit card registering a tap if they are equipped with the RFID chip.

[trigger]

Well, if you really believe the CTA will run out of Ventra Cards, the thing to do is to stock up on them now while they are readily available. Then in December as the shortage develops and the deadline looms you can stand outside a busy 'L' station in a long overcoat going "Psst! Buddy, ya wanna buy a Ventra Card cheap?"

Show some entrepreneurial initiative. Worst case, if there is no shortage and the black market doesn't develop, you can just use them to pay your own bus fares.

[Busjack]

Well, if you really believe the CTA will run out of Ventra Cards, the thing to do is to stock up on them now while they are readily available. Then in December as the shortage develops and the deadline looms you can stand outside a busy 'L' station in a long overcoat going "Psst! Buddy, ya wanna buy a Ventra Card cheap?"

Show some entrepreneurial initiative. Worst case, if there is no shortage and the black market doesn't develop, you can just use them to pay your own bus fares.

Are you assuring that all those $5 deposits are going to be refunded?

[owine]

I received and activated my Ventra card last night. The balance from my Chicago Card Plus was supposed to automatically get transferred to the Ventra card. It didn't and I got the big red "STOP" at the reader.

To add to the fun, Ventra's support form on their site has a 160 character limit. Might as well just use Twitter.

I also just received my Ventra Card. I am a CCP user with a 30-day pass. My balance and pass did not transfer yet.

[owine]

I just thought of this:

My employer does transit benefits via a third party vendor and it is fulfilled with its own prepaid Mastercard to use as the funding source for CCP/Ventra. The maximum amount is something like $245 per month. Theoretically, I could evade taxes by putting more than my monthly pass amount onto my Ventra card and spend it with the Ventra debit card. Am I missing something there?

[trigger]

Are you assuring that all those $5 deposits are going to be refunded?

Just choose a fake name and address and register them under that. It doesn't even have to be in Chicago. They don't ask for ID.

But if you can sell them for $20 a piece, $5 is a small investment.

[trigger]

I just thought of this:

My employer does transit benefits via a third party vendor and it is fulfilled with its own prepaid Mastercard to use as the funding source for CCP/Ventra. The maximum amount is something like $245 per month. Theoretically, I could evade taxes by putting more than my monthly pass amount onto my Ventra card and spend it with the Ventra debit card. Am I missing something there?

The Ventra Card has two separate subaccounts: A Transit Account and a Debit Account. Money in the Transit Account cannot be spent with the debit card and cannot be transferred to the Debit Account.

If your employer somehow allowed you to fund the Debit Account, then yes you could take advantage. But if your employer is not monitoring what you do with the prepaid Mastercard, why bother with the Ventra Card? Just take your employer's prepaid Mastercard to Jewel or Nordstrom or wherever and have yourself a shopping spree.

[brownliner]

< Supposedly some gas pumps have stickers that they take a set authorization first, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for Ventra to do so. >

My experience is that gas stations do a temp authorization for $1. No excuse for Ventra to be jack-asses.

Pricey hotel chains may also do a ridiculous amounts unrelated to your room charge.

< In any case, the $5 authorization is just temporary and the actual amount is charged. >

It may not make much difference, but your FICO at any given moment ingests the $5 temp authorization as counting toward your debt/credit ratio. If your score would otherwise be 751, and this takes it down to 749, and you happen to be asking for loan in that 2 day period, you are down 1 notch in FICO's gradebook.

While utilization (the ratio between your available credit on an account and the reported balance) is an important part of FICO credit scoring, it's based on the balance reported the credit bureaus. That is, almost universally, the balance on your monthly statement. (The exceptions are a handful of banks that report based on a fixed schedule.) In no case does it include transactions that have not fully posted. So the temp auths aren't an issue for that.

What is probably an issue for some people are debit card holds, which some banks do not promptly release, even when they've processed the actual capture of funds.

I can't think of a good reason for anyone to use a personal card to use ventra, except possibly tourists.

[BusHunter]

The Ventra Card has two separate subaccounts: A Transit Account and a Debit Account. Money in the Transit Account cannot be spent with the debit card and cannot be transferred to the Debit Account.

If your employer somehow allowed you to fund the Debit Account, then yes you could take advantage. But if your employer is not monitoring what you do with the prepaid Mastercard, why bother with the Ventra Card? Just take your employer's prepaid Mastercard to Jewel or Nordstrom or wherever and have yourself a shopping spree.

Yeah just like the guys on EBay do!! Shortages do happen, even with passes, when CTA announced they raised fares and passes got more expensive people were out buying 2,3 or 4 passes. Well you get enough people doing that and you get a shortage.

[Railwaymodeler]

Yesterday I witnessed a couple teenagers go bats on a North Division driver. Apparently the two got on the bus, one Ventra card worked, the other did not. The driver had the kid whose card did not work pay cash fare, as he explained to me later when I asked, the garage management told him to enforce the cash fare rule. This resulted in the kid who had the defective card, becoming loud and borderline violent, threatening to "whoop" the driver's a**. The guy she was with held her back and settled her down at least, but not without threatening to have the driver fired.

This whole thing is already a fiasco if you ask me.

[Kevin]

I also just received my Ventra Card. I am a CCP user with a 30-day pass. My balance and pass did not transfer yet.

Mine eventually transferred 12 hours after activating.

I can't think of a good reason for anyone to use a personal card to use ventra, except possibly tourists.

One less card to carry. I try to have the extreme opposite of Costanza's wallet.

The charges posted to my contactless bankcard using PAYG are a bit confusing, however.

On Wednesday morning, I used my own card for a rail trip and then later a bus trip. In the evening, I used it for another rail trip. If my calculations are correct, that's a total of $6.50. But this is what got posted for that day:

9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $5.00
9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $1.75

That adds up to $6.75, a quarter more than what fares should have been. My only hypothesis is that I was charged $2.25 instead of $2 for the bus trip. Unless I missed something in the 7,000+ word Terms and Conditions, PAYG should still charge only $2 for bus trips.

[Busjack]

Mine eventually transferred 12 hours after activating.

One less card to carry. I try to have the extreme opposite of Costanza's wallet.

The charges posted to my contactless bankcard using PAYG are a bit confusing, however.

On Wednesday morning, I used my own card for a rail trip and then later a bus trip. In the evening, I used it for another rail trip. If my calculations are correct, that's a total of $6.50. But this is what got posted for that day:

9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $5.00
9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $1.75

That adds up to $6.75, a quarter more than what fares should have been. My only hypothesis is that I was charged $2.25 instead of $2 for the bus trip. Unless I missed something in the 7,000+ word Terms and Conditions, PAYG should still charge only $2 for bus trips.

Ask trigger about that, but a cash bus trip is $2.25, not $2.00 (Top of the CTA fare chart). It is $2.00 only with a fare card.

Remember what I said earlier about deception and complaining when you get your bank statement?

[Kevin]

Ask trigger about that, but a cash bus trip is $2.25, not $2.00 (Top of the CTA fare chart). It is $2.00 only with a fare card.

Remember what I said earlier about deception and complaining when you get your bank statement?

That will certainly need to get clarified. I didn't pay with a fare card, but I also didn't pay with cash. Note that the fare chart makes no mention of Ventra.

[jajuan]

That will certainly need to get clarified. I didn't pay with a fare card, but I also didn't pay with cash. Note that the fare chart makes no mention of Ventra.

Yes that does indeed that needs to be clarified since Ventra is replacing all the current fare cards. Will the PAYG option count as paying cash or paying with a fare card?

[Busjack]

Yes that does indeed that needs to be clarified since Ventra is replacing all the current fare cards. Will the PAYG option count as paying cash or paying with a fare card?

Everything trigger has said up to now is that it is only a substitute for cash, and Kevin's transaction confirms that. Apparently only a transit account attached to either a Ventra card or some other card counts as a fare card.

Again, do you see the point I made about disclosure at the point of the transaction? Something shouldn't need to be clarified a couple of days later.

[artthouwill]

Mine eventually transferred 12 hours after activating.

One less card to carry. I try to have the extreme opposite of Costanza's wallet.

The charges posted to my contactless bankcard using PAYG are a bit confusing, however.

On Wednesday morning, I used my own card for a rail trip and then later a bus trip. In the evening, I used it for another rail trip. If my calculations are correct, that's a total of $6.50. But this is what got posted for that day:

9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $5.00
9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $1.75

That adds up to $6.75, a quarter more than what fares should have been. My only hypothesis is that I was charged $2.25 instead of $2 for the bus trip. Unless I missed something in the 7,000+ word Terms and Conditions, PAYG should still charge only $2 for bus trips.

I could be wrong, but I've seen bus operators charge cash paying customers $2.25. I thought the fare for the bus was $2.00 cash, but maybe that is only on transit cards. In any event, I would think PAYG would also charge $2.00. Could it be possible that contactless debit or credit cards could be seen as cash and thus subject to the extra .25?

Just checked the CTA website and the cash fare on buses is $2.25 ($2.00 with CC and transit cards). So again, I can only surmise that you were charged a cash fare with your debit card, hence the extra $0.25.

This being the case, what would be charged from an actual Ventra card as opposed to a contactless debit card? I know for sure any thoughts that I may have had concerning using a contactless bank card to load passes is surely out the window.

[sw4400]

Mine eventually transferred 12 hours after activating.

One less card to carry. I try to have the extreme opposite of Costanza's wallet.

The charges posted to my contactless bankcard using PAYG are a bit confusing, however.

On Wednesday morning, I used my own card for a rail trip and then later a bus trip. In the evening, I used it for another rail trip. If my calculations are correct, that's a total of $6.50. But this is what got posted for that day:

9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $5.00
9/12/2013   Debit Card Transaction    Ventra Account Chicago IL 9/11     $1.75

That adds up to $6.75, a quarter more than what fares should have been. My only hypothesis is that I was charged $2.25 instead of $2 for the bus trip. Unless I missed something in the 7,000+ word Terms and Conditions, PAYG should still charge only $2 for bus trips.

This is why I am not sold, nor will ever be about the contactless bank card option that Ventra offers. The little hidden fees creep up on you very slowly, like here where Kevin states the total more than the fares should be. The math shows that he went on three bus rides($2.25) but was overcharged by .50 cents according to the fare chart. Ventra should fall under full fare with farecard, thus he should only be charged $2.00/ride with only one transfer cost of .25 cents with a total of three rides being $6.25. Kevin, you say you were using a contactless bank card, which I'm guessing is your own personal Debit/Credit Card. I don't know how that works, if MetaBank and CTA consider that a farecard or do they classify that as cash. It sounds like the latter.

[artthouwill]

Bought my Ventra Card loaded with a CTA 7-day pass from the Howard Red Line station's Ventra vending machine, and yes the vending machines do give you a receipt upon you pressing yes at the "Would you like a receipt?" prompt. I did the registration through my smart phone while sitting on a 22 Clark bus that was on layover. That was actually quick and painless, and the $5 fee I got charged at the vending machine did get credited to card as a transit value within two seconds of me logging into my transit account after registering my card. The 7-day pass was also shown in the pass queue ready for use upon my first successful tap. I was pleasantly surprised to find purchase process itself was quite seamless. It took me less than five minutes to complete the transaction. The registration took me maybe another five minutes. So far so good in my personal Ventra transition.

And the Ventra site does explicitly say that you have to take the card out of your wallet and swipe it alone against the Ventra reader or else tapping a wallet or purse like with Chicago Card or CCP will result in either your debit card or credit card registering a tap if they are equipped with the RFID chip.

You said you bought your Ventra Card loaded with a 7 - Day CTA pass at the Howard L station.

1 Did you also have to pay the extra $5.00 on site?

2. After you registered your card, the $5.00 should be credited back to your card? How would that be reflected? Upon your first use, will the $2.00 fare be deducted, leaving you with $3.00 balance, or will the "month" start on your loaded pass? If the latter, would you receive a $5 credit when you decide to load another pass onto your card?

[sw4400]

Here's a situation with a series of questions posed to the forum:

• If you have a multi-day pass(we'll say 7-Day for example and three friends tagging along with you), can you use that pass for yourself and the other three friends? Do you just tell the Bus Operator and he/she inputs some info into the Ventra reader and as you tap and pass the card to your friends, it says "GO" for each? More importantly, does your card incur charges if all you have is the $5.00 credit on it from first purchasing or does it show 7-Day Pass 0.00 for each tap from your friends after you? I don't really know how this works, but if I understand correctly, multiple people with you can use a Ventra Card with a multi-day pass on it too.

True or am I just lost by the info?

[owine]

Here's a situation with a series of questions posed to the forum:

• If you have a multi-day pass(we'll say 7-Day for example and three friends tagging along with you), can you use that pass for yourself and the other three friends? Do you just tell the Bus Operator and he/she inputs some info into the Ventra reader and as you tap and pass the card to your friends, it says "GO" for each? More importantly, does your card incur charges if all you have is the $5.00 credit on it from first purchasing or does it show 7-Day Pass 0.00 for each tap from your friends after you? I don't really know how this works, but if I understand correctly, multiple people with you can use a Ventra Card with a multi-day pass on it too.

True or am I just lost by the info?

I bet it works just like a multi-day pass on a CCP did. With my CCP and 30 day pass, I could do passbacks and the fare was added on to my next reload transaction. For example, if I passed back two bus rides, I was charged $104 at my next reload.

[Amtrak41]

There is timeout period for the various day passes, like 20 minutes until the next use, so no passback.

Makes no difference what the hardware is.

[Busjack]

...

This being the case, what would be charged from an actual Ventra card as opposed to a contactless debit card? I know for sure any thoughts that I may have had concerning using a contactless bank card to load passes is surely out the window.

Unless CTA was lying about no fare increase, a Ventra card should count the same as any other stored value card, i.e. a loaded transit card or one of the varieties of Chicago Card, in which case the rate is $2.00/25 cents first transfer, 2nd transfer free.

But what happened to Kevin is exactly what I mentioned a week or so ago, and I got flamed.

Also, since Kevin then mentioned the Pay as You Go Option, I assume that if trigger's theory were on the website, Kevin would have found it. But it wasn't on the website.

As far as using a contactless bank card, you can register it with a transit account, and supposedly put a pass on it, but Kevin was using it as an open fare medium as opposed to a transit account.

Speaking of CTA PR lying for a CTA liar, check out this from the home page news feed.

[jajuan]

You said you bought your Ventra Card loaded with a 7 - Day CTA pass at the Howard L station.

1 Did you also have to pay the extra $5.00 on site?

2. After you registered your card, the $5.00 should be credited back to your card? How would that be reflected? Upon your first use, will the $2.00 fare be deducted, leaving you with $3.00 balance, or will the "month" start on your loaded pass? If the latter, would you receive a $5 credit when you decide to load another pass onto your card?

Yes I got charged the fee on site, and yes after registration it was immediately refunded to my card. It's reflected on my card as a $5 transit value, in essence the equivalent of me carrying a $5 transit card and a 7-Day pass in my wallet but on one card. Upon first tap, the loaded pass would take precedence. A short hierarchy in what registers first for Ventra is multi-day pass, stored transit value, PAYG (this last one if you're using your contactless debit or card to track your Ventra accounts). When my pass is used up I can wait one day before loading another pass and use the $5 toward one day of travel to and from work, or I can just keep reloading passes until I decide to use the $5. Another scenario is since I bought the CTA only 7-Day, in theory the $5 is there for use if I wanted to use Pace one day for any reason and fares would be deducted from the $5 since the 7-Day pass I loaded isn't valid on Pace and Ventra is supposed to go to the next fare media option down the line to attempt to register a fare for you. I could also have it in reserve for use for a friend or family member to tap a second time after I do a tap against my pass. I did double check the Ventra site to make sure I was correct that it would be 1st tap my pass, the 2nd tap friend or relative from the stored transit value. So to answer sw's question yes you can have a pass loaded on your card and then tap it again for a second or more persons but you have to have enough separate stored transit value to cover the addition people loaded on the card in addition to your pass in that case. On the bus, you do have to inform the bus operator you're tapping for multiple people so the operator sets the reader on multiple fare reads. For the L though, you just tap for each addition person. I can even add more with the $5 in addition with reloading any passes. There are multiple options to how I use the $5 or add to it, but nothing would get deducted from it until I either don't have a pass loaded on my card or unless I do multiple taps in a multiple person scenario while I have an active pass in cue for use.

[owine]

On the Ventra website, under Support History there is the following entry:

"Chiacago Card Plus - New Card Order"

[jajuan]

From the Ventra site the order of what's looked for by the Ventra reader when you tap is in this order:

1. Joint CTA-Pace passes that are valid on both transit agencies
2. Agency-specific passes that are valid on just one participating transit agency
3. Shorter duration passes
4. Longer duration passes
5. Transit Benefit Value
6. Transit Value
7. PAYG if using a contactless credit or debit card or mobile phone