Bus Route Elimination of Your Choice

[garmon757]

If you had a choice to eliminate one current bus route, which one would you choose and why?

[Bus fanatic30]

The 48 Damen I never see no more then 6 people on that route

[artthouwill]

If you had a choice to eliminate one current bus route, which one would you choose and why?

I would eliminate the 1 Bronzeville/Union Station route.

The 1 Drexel/Hyde Pk was a route that ran between NW Station (Oglivie Transportation Center) and 83rd/South Shore Drive. It was a popular route. The route ran full length Mondays thru Saturdays and terminated at the Jackson Pk L at 63rd/Stony Island on Sundays and Holidays. From South to North, it ran via South Shore, 67th, Stony Island, 57th, Hyde Park, Drexel, Cottage Grove, 33rd Pl, Rhodes, 33rd, Cottage Grove, 29th Pl, Vernon, 29th, King DRive, 26th, Michigan, 24th Pl, Inidana, Cermak, Michigan, and Randolph (Washington) to the train station.

In September 1981, this route was combined with the 38 Indiana to form the 1 Indiana/Hyde Pk. From Hyde Park Blvd, this route ran west on 51st to Indiana and continued downtwon, terminating at Union Station (the 38 Indiana terminus) . January 1, 1982 the southern terminus permanently became 63rd/Stony Island, with the portion between 63rd and 83rd being replaced by a rerouted 27 South Deering. The northern terminus routing at NW station was replaced downtown by the new 14 S. Lake Shore Express and 127 NW/Madison (McCormick) during rush periods only.

Around 1997, the service period was reduced to rush periods only. The portion along E. Hyde Park Blvd received supplemental service by extending the 51st St bus to 47th/Lake Park via Hyde Park and Lake Park Blvd during its service hours. The 4 Cottage Grove was rerouted via 35th and Michigan/Indiana during the hours that the #1 didn't operate (keeping its original routing during rush hours)

In 2003, the 1 route's sourthern terminus was cut back to Drexel Square (51st/Drexel) and the 51st St routing was cut back to the 47th ST REd Line station. A new 15 Jeffery Local started service between 47th REd Line and 103rd Stony Island restoring service along 51st and Hyde Park Blvd all the way to 67th/Jeffery before running along Jeffery. Also the #4 routing via 35th and Michigan/Indiana became permanent at all times with the original 4 routing being operated by a new X4 Cottage Grove Express. At this point, passengers from 35th north had the option of taking a high frequency 4 route all times of the day or a lower frequency 1 route during rush hours.

Finally, earlier this year, the 1 was renamed 1 Bronzeville/Union Station and was cut back even further, now terminating at 35th/Michigan on the south end, which begs the question why? If it is service along S Michigan to connect with Union Station, a simple extension of the 7 or 126 or keeping of the 129 between Union Station and McCormick would've done the trick. The CTA has killed off enough of the useful portions of this route already, so why not just kill the rest of it as all of the remaining route duplicates something.

[garmon757]

I would eliminate the 1 Bronzeville/Union Station route.

The 1 Drexel/Hyde Pk was a route that ran between NW Station (Oglivie Transportation Center) and 83rd/South Shore Drive. It was a popular route. The route ran full length Mondays thru Saturdays and terminated at the Jackson Pk L at 63rd/Stony Island on Sundays and Holidays. From South to North, it ran via South Shore, 67th, Stony Island, 57th, Hyde Park, Drexel, Cottage Grove, 33rd Pl, Rhodes, 33rd, Cottage Grove, 29th Pl, Vernon, 29th, King DRive, 26th, Michigan, 24th Pl, Inidana, Cermak, Michigan, and Randolph (Washington) to the train station.

In September 1981, this route was combined with the 38 Indiana to form the 1 Indiana/Hyde Pk. From Hyde Park Blvd, this route ran west on 51st to Indiana and continued downtwon, terminating at Union Station (the 38 Indiana terminus) . January 1, 1982 the southern terminus permanently became 63rd/Stony Island, with the portion between 63rd and 83rd being replaced by a rerouted 27 South Deering. The northern terminus routing at NW station was replaced downtown by the new 14 S. Lake Shore Express and 127 NW/Madison (McCormick) during rush periods only.

Around 1997, the service period was reduced to rush periods only. The portion along E. Hyde Park Blvd received supplemental service by extending the 51st St bus to 47th/Lake Park via Hyde Park and Lake Park Blvd during its service hours. The 4 Cottage Grove was rerouted via 35th and Michigan/Indiana during the hours that the #1 didn't operate (keeping its original routing during rush hours)

In 2003, the 1 route's sourthern terminus was cut back to Drexel Square (51st/Drexel) and the 51st St routing was cut back to the 47th ST REd Line station. A new 15 Jeffery Local started service between 47th REd Line and 103rd Stony Island restoring service along 51st and Hyde Park Blvd all the way to 67th/Jeffery before running along Jeffery. Also the #4 routing via 35th and Michigan/Indiana became permanent at all times with the original 4 routing being operated by a new X4 Cottage Grove Express. At this point, passengers from 35th north had the option of taking a high frequency 4 route all times of the day or a lower frequency 1 route during rush hours.

Finally, earlier this year, the 1 was renamed 1 Bronzeville/Union Station and was cut back even further, now terminating at 35th/Michigan on the south end, which begs the question why? If it is service along S Michigan to connect with Union Station, a simple extension of the 7 or 126 or keeping of the 129 between Union Station and McCormick would've done the trick. The CTA has killed off enough of the useful portions of this route already, so why not just kill the rest of it as all of the remaining route duplicates something.

Hey, nice input about the history of this route. I didn't like the shortening of this route now. Terrible decision.

[jajuan]

Hey, nice input about the history of this route. I didn't like the shortening of this route now. Terrible decision.

Unfortunately, the CTA's finances has been too shaky over the years to hold on to the more useful parts of the route.

I would eliminate the 1 Bronzeville/Union Station route.

The 1 Drexel/Hyde Pk was a route that ran between NW Station (Oglivie Transportation Center) and 83rd/South Shore Drive. It was a popular route. The route ran full length Mondays thru Saturdays and terminated at the Jackson Pk L at 63rd/Stony Island on Sundays and Holidays. From South to North, it ran via South Shore, 67th, Stony Island, 57th, Hyde Park, Drexel, Cottage Grove, 33rd Pl, Rhodes, 33rd, Cottage Grove, 29th Pl, Vernon, 29th, King DRive, 26th, Michigan, 24th Pl, Inidana, Cermak, Michigan, and Randolph (Washington) to the train station.

In September 1981, this route was combined with the 38 Indiana to form the 1 Indiana/Hyde Pk. From Hyde Park Blvd, this route ran west on 51st to Indiana and continued downtwon, terminating at Union Station (the 38 Indiana terminus) . January 1, 1982 the southern terminus permanently became 63rd/Stony Island, with the portion between 63rd and 83rd being replaced by a rerouted 27 South Deering. The northern terminus routing at NW station was replaced downtown by the new 14 S. Lake Shore Express and 127 NW/Madison (McCormick) during rush periods only.

Around 1997, the service period was reduced to rush periods only. The portion along E. Hyde Park Blvd received supplemental service by extending the 51st St bus to 47th/Lake Park via Hyde Park and Lake Park Blvd during its service hours. The 4 Cottage Grove was rerouted via 35th and Michigan/Indiana during the hours that the #1 didn't operate (keeping its original routing during rush hours)

In 2003, the 1 route's sourthern terminus was cut back to Drexel Square (51st/Drexel) and the 51st St routing was cut back to the 47th ST REd Line station. A new 15 Jeffery Local started service between 47th REd Line and 103rd Stony Island restoring service along 51st and Hyde Park Blvd all the way to 67th/Jeffery before running along Jeffery. Also the #4 routing via 35th and Michigan/Indiana became permanent at all times with the original 4 routing being operated by a new X4 Cottage Grove Express. At this point, passengers from 35th north had the option of taking a high frequency 4 route all times of the day or a lower frequency 1 route during rush hours.

Finally, earlier this year, the 1 was renamed 1 Bronzeville/Union Station and was cut back even further, now terminating at 35th/Michigan on the south end, which begs the question why? If it is service along S Michigan to connect with Union Station, a simple extension of the 7 or 126 or keeping of the 129 between Union Station and McCormick would've done the trick. The CTA has killed off enough of the useful portions of this route already, so why not just kill the rest of it as all of the remaining route duplicates something.

Someone might be able to make a similar argument of the current form of the 11 as far as a lot of useful parts of the route being gone and given the 49B and 93 are near a lot of what's left of the route and also shuttle riders to the Brown Line as well as end at the Brown Line at their respective south terminus points. But I think sw's head would explode if they killed what's left of that route. And for the record sw, no I'm not advocating they do so, but merely pointing out that someone could use art's argument about the 1 against what's left of the 11.

[Busjack]

... And for the record sw, no I'm not advocating they do so, but merely pointing out that someone could use art's argument about the 1 against what's left of the 11.

Nope, because there would then be no remaining service on N. Kedzie. However, I have advocated either terminating the Lunt bus, or rerouting it on Kedzie (like it used to be) instead of McCormick.

[jajuan]

Nope, because there would then be no remaining service on N. Kedzie. However, I have advocated either terminating the Lunt bus, or rerouting it on Kedzie (like it used to be) instead of McCormick.

Somehow they seem to think having the 96 on McCormick is better because of Lincolnwood Town Center.Plus I still question why the route supposedly works better on a fairly narrow street like Lunt instead of Pratt which is wider. Yes Pratt has the truck restriction, but CTA does operate buses on other roadways with truck restrictions. And in fact Pratt was a detour for the 155 during recent sewer work on Devon. As far as North Kedzie goes, the 82 is nearby on McCormick up to the mall during the 11's current hours of service.

[cta_44499_FG]

Somehow they seem to think having the 96 on McCormick is better because of Lincolnwood Town Center.Plus I still question why the route supposedly works better on a fairly narrow street like Lunt instead of Pratt which is wider. Yes Pratt has the truck restriction, but CTA does operate buses on other roadways with truck restrictions. And in fact Pratt was a detour for the 155 during recent sewer work on Devon. As far as North Kedzie goes, the 82 is nearby on McCormick up to the mall during the 11's current hours of service.

Neighborhood opposition. They do not want buses operating on Pratt between Kedzie and Western. It has been this way for quite some time. The locals of the area has long been opposed to CTA operating buses down this section because "they make too much noise" and has even threatened CTA will lawsuits for failure to comply. If you noticed, when the sewer work on Devon was between California and Western, they were sending the buses to Lunt...several more blocks out of the way. This resulted in tremendous delays during the pm rush, and in addition to the construction at the Loyola/Sheridan stop, resulted in up to four buses being bunched at a time.

[Busjack]

,,, As far as North Kedzie goes, the 82 is nearby on McCormick up to the mall during the 11's current hours of service.

Which is a reason for taking 96 off McCormick. There isn't a bridge between Touhy and Devon over the North Shore Channel. I think that was discussed in connection with someone's mythical extension of a Pratt bus to the area of Village Crossing.

If there really is traffic between Lunt and the Lincolnwood Town Center, it could go there and then south on Kedzie. Absolutely no need for it to be on McCormick, especially, as you point out, it is duplicative.

Because of the lack of bridge problem, Dominick's at least used to run a senior shuttle when it moved from Kedzie and Pratt to McCormick, but Dominick's is now going out of business. In either event, that isn't a reason for the duplicative service. I don't think that too many seniors from around Lunt are going to Grossinger Auto Village either, so there basically is no justification for 96 on McCormick. Put it back on its old route and cancel 11.

[jajuan]

Neighborhood opposition. They do not want buses operating on Pratt between Kedzie and Western. It has been this way for quite some time. The heavy Jewish population has long been opposed to CTA operating buses down this section because "they make too much noise" and has even threatened CTA will lawsuits for failure to comply. If you noticed, when the sewer work on Devon was between California and Western, they were sending the buses to Lunt...several more blocks out of the way. This resulted in tremendous delays during the pm rush, and in addition to the construction at the Loyola/Sheridan stop, resulted in up to four buses being bunched at a time.

Yes I wondered about that kerfuffle in detour routing. It stood out more to me when the tail end of the sewer work between Western and Ridge overlapped that between California and Western if I remember the order of the sewer projects correctly. At the time I think I even posed the question of why send buses all the way to Lunt which is already barely wide enough for the 96 when Pratt is right there and was being used for the detour of the work east of Western. At the time the truck restriction came up on that same stretch of Pratt, and I noted that that couldn't be the whole story because of the fact that trucks don't operate on LSD either yet CTA express buses from both north and south sections of the city still use it for their respective express zones.

[Busjack]

Neighborhood opposition. They do not want buses operating on Pratt between Kedzie and Western. It has been this way for quite some time. The heavy Jewish population has long been opposed to CTA operating buses down this section because "they make too much noise" and has even threatened CTA will lawsuits for failure to comply. If you noticed, when the sewer work on Devon was between California and Western, they were sending the buses to Lunt...several more blocks out of the way. This resulted in tremendous delays during the pm rush, and in addition to the construction at the Loyola/Sheridan stop, resulted in up to four buses being bunched at a time.

I'll pass on the ethnic remark (which I don't buy), but my understanding was that there was a senior population on Lunt that demanded service.

[mkohut]

Neighborhood opposition. They do not want buses operating on Pratt between Kedzie and Western. It has been this way for quite some time. The heavy Jewish population has long been opposed to CTA operating buses down this section because "they make too much noise" and has even threatened CTA will lawsuits for failure to comply. If you noticed, when the sewer work on Devon was between California and Western, they were sending the buses to Lunt...several more blocks out of the way. This resulted in tremendous delays during the pm rush, and in addition to the construction at the Loyola/Sheridan stop, resulted in up to four buses being bunched at a time.

There is a point of when Dominicks was on Pratt.They had to have the trucks go on there.So i Don't buy the arguement of not having bus on Pratt.Plus school buses go on it.

[jajuan]

I'll pass on the ethnic remark (which I don't buy), but my understanding was that there was a senior population on Lunt that demanded service.

If the senior element is part of it, the demographics have long sense changed since now most of who I see riding the bus on Lunt are younger folks of various backgrounds connecting with the Red Line and UP-North Metra Line to go and come from downtown and school kids.

There is a point of when Dominicks was on Pratt.They had to have the trucks go on there.So i Don't buy the arguement of not having bus on Pratt.Plus school buses go on it.

If you compare engine noise from a school bus and CTA transit bus over the years, school buses are relatively quieter if one took the noise factor as true. On the Dominick's point, if the store you're referring to was in the same general area as the one currently on Damen a little over a block south of Pratt, the truck point wouldn't apply since the truck restriction in place between Western and California isn't in place east of Western. Plus there is that point to get around that during the sewer work on Devon between Western and California, 155 buses were detoured via Lunt between those two streets and not Pratt. For the work east of Western on Devon, buses were indeed detoured on to Pratt between Western and Ridge. So something has to be different for Pratt between Western and California that CTA bypassed it to instead use the much narrower Lunt for a detour of its buses operating its Devon route but did use Pratt for a detour when needed for detours of Devon buses east of Western. I won't go into the ethnic issue but neighborhood opposition sounds plausible given school buses comparable in size to a CTA bus can be seen on Pratt between Western and California.

[sw4400]

Neighborhood opposition. They do not want buses operating on Pratt between Kedzie and Western. It has been this way for quite some time. The heavy Jewish population has long been opposed to CTA operating buses down this section because "they make too much noise" and has even threatened CTA will lawsuits for failure to comply. If you noticed, when the sewer work on Devon was between California and Western, they were sending the buses to Lunt...several more blocks out of the way. This resulted in tremendous delays during the pm rush, and in addition to the construction at the Loyola/Sheridan stop, resulted in up to four buses being bunched at a time.

There is a point of when Dominicks was on Pratt.They had to have the trucks go on there.So i Don't buy the arguement of not having bus on Pratt.Plus school buses go on it.

I also don't buy the noise excuse, but won't turn this thread into a ethnic argument. What I will say though is you have cars with loose or no mufflers making lots of noise, and a 7.3L, 6.0L, 6.4L and 6.7L Powerstroke Diesel engine which powers today's School Buses manufactured by International make considerable noise. Even the CAT 3116 engine found in the Freightliner School Buses make considerable noise. When there was a truck stuck under the viaduct on Lincoln at Addison, the Bus Operator on #11 noticed it at Grace/Wolcott and made the decision rather than wait, he turned onto Wolcott and drove the bus up to Addison and turned on Addison and back onto Lincoln. Wolcott is a residential street, while it's not Pratt, it is populated by residents of diverse groups and nobody sued the CTA for that bus on that day. A ethnic group can't control traffic because of noise... that's absurd!!!

[mkohut]

If the senior element is part of it, the demographics have long sense changed since now most of who I see riding the bus on Lunt are younger folks of various backgrounds connecting with the Red Line and UP-North Metra Line to go and come from downtown and school kids.

If you compare engine noise from a school bus and CTA transit bus over the years, school buses are relatively quieter if one took the noise factor as true. On the Dominick's point, if the store you're referring to was in the same general area as the one currently on Damen a little over a block south of Pratt, the truck point wouldn't apply since the truck restriction in place between Western and California isn't in place east of Western. Plus there is that point to get around that during the sewer work on Devon between Western and California, 155 buses were detoured via Lunt between those two streets and not Pratt. For the work east of Western on Devon, buses were indeed detoured on to Pratt between Western and Ridge. So something has to be different for Pratt between Western and California that CTA bypassed it to instead use the much narrower Lunt for a detour of its buses operating its Devon route but did use Pratt for a detour when needed for detours of Devon buses east of Western. I won't go into the ethnic issue but neighborhood opposition sounds plausible given school buses comparable in size to a CTA bus can be seen on Pratt between Western and California.

The Dominicks i was talking about was the one they use to have at 3145 pratt.

[jajuan]

The Dominicks i was talking about was the one they use to have at 3145 pratt.

That's still outside the truck restriction someone mentioned was in place on Pratt between California and Western.

[KedziePink]

The 48 Damen I never see no more then 6 people on that route

Are you sure you mean the 48? The 50 is Damen; the 48 is South Damen.

[Bus fanatic30]

Yea the 48 south damen thanhs

[Busjack]

Neighborhood opposition. They do not want buses operating on Pratt between Kedzie and Western. It has been this way for quite some time. The heavy Jewish population has long been opposed to CTA operating buses down this section because "they make too much noise" and has even threatened CTA will lawsuits for failure to comply. ...

Since, as I suspected, 96 does not run on Saturday, this is just an ethnic and religous slur. Also, West Rogers Park is ethnically diverse, but no different on Pratt than Lunt.

Even when it was 96 Lunt Touhy, it never ran on Pratt. Bill V. indicates that even CMC 54/CTA 154 only ran on Lunt, and then was incorporated into 96. As usual with number shifts, the tail wagged the dog.

Sorry.

[jajuan]

Since, as I suspected, 96 does not run on Saturday, this is just an ethnic and religous slur. Also, West Rogers Park is ethnically diverse, but no different on Pratt than Lunt.

Even when it was 96 Lunt Touhy, it never ran on Pratt. Bill V. indicates that even CMC 54/CTA 154 only ran on Lunt, and then was incorporated into 96. As usual with number shifts, the tail wagged the dog.

Sorry.

Kind of why I didn't want to get into the ethnic and religious aspect. But without those factors is neighborhood opposition along with what you said about a sizable senior demand at one point in time a possibility of why the route has operated on Lunt all these years when Pratt as a wider street with more room to fit buses in on opposite directions more comfortably is available?

[mkohut]

Kind of why I didn't want to get into the ethnic and religious aspect. But without those factors is neighborhood opposition along with what you said about a sizable senior demand at one point in time a possibility of why the route has operated on Lunt all these years when Pratt as a wider street with more room to fit buses in on opposite directions more comfortably is available?

I think the safest and fair way to get a answer is ask the CTA

[cta_44499_FG]

Since, as I suspected, 96 does not run on Saturday, this is just an ethnic and religous slur. Also, West Rogers Park is ethnically diverse, but no different on Pratt than Lunt.

Even when it was 96 Lunt Touhy, it never ran on Pratt. Bill V. indicates that even CMC 54/CTA 154 only ran on Lunt, and then was incorporated into 96. As usual with number shifts, the tail wagged the dog.

Sorry.

This is how it was explained to me. Nothing more. I should of noted that. I don't buy it either, but when does anything here make sense?

With that being said, the post has been edited.

[jajuan]

I think the safest and fair way to get a answer is ask the CTA

As if management, such as its constituted currently, would give a straight and direct answer. We've got a President of the agency who is more prone to slip into corporate double speak than the rest and a board of incompetents who rubber stamped this ridiculous decrowd initiative that eliminated routes and route segments that several of us realized and pointed out didn't even meet their own definition of low ridership given routes of even lower ridership were left untouched in part because Mayor Ego and Micromanage was pressuring for it in some way behind the scenes. And when it was shown in the papers that this group of incompetents had reservations and questions about aspects of this initiative even as they voted it through anyway (I.e. the clown who said he didn't understand cutting out the whole middle section of the #11 yet voted to cut it anyway), the fools didn't even understand their own powers to call an emergency meeting to look back into the cuts given their concerns when they made their initial vote. So it's more than safe to say getting an answer from current CTA management structure isn't going to happen.

UPDATE: Edited to make it more clear than was apparent that Emanuel is who I meant by 'Mr. Ego and Micromanage'

Edited December 1, 2013 by jajuan

[Busjack]

I think the safest and fair way to get a answer is ask the CTA

In addition to what jajuan says, it is also a matter of inertia (as I indicated by the historical explanation of 96).

The relevant comparison is the Crowd Reduction Plan, especially Lincoln, where they laid the changes basically on the Northwestern U. Traffic Center, and used typical planner talk, such as a diagonal route can be replaced by cross ones, without really saying what the motivation was, and lying about listening to the community.

Now, if they had decided to cut 96 completely, Ald. Joe Moore might have gotten a crowd out, but that wouldn't have made any difference. In fact, I'm surprised that there wasn't any subsequent stink about cutting service on Wilson.

[jajuan]

In addition to what jajuan says, it is also a matter of inertia (as I indicated by the historical explanation of 96).

The relevant comparison is the Crowd Reduction Plan, especially Lincoln, where they laid the changes basically on the Northwestern U. Traffic Center, and used typical planner talk, such as a diagonal route can be replaced by cross ones, without really saying what the motivation was, and lying about listening to the community.

Now, if they had decided to cut 96 completely, Ald. Joe Moore might have gotten a crowd out, but that wouldn't have made any difference. In fact, I'm surprised that there wasn't any subsequent stink about cutting service on Wilson.

Yes I'm also surprised that public outcry over cuts in service on Wilson didn't continue much past the angry crowds at the public meeting. Regardless of what folks on here were saying at the time in banding together to push the point about the 78, I can personally attest to the fact that the 145 and 148 service along Wilson served a far bigger purpose than delivering folks to transfers to the 22, 36, 151 and Red Line. A sizable number stayed on board to travel downtown just as a sizable number traveling in the opposite direction and disembarking along Wilson came from downtown.

On the diagonal route point, the current increased push to cut what diagonal routes remain around the edges is a big leap from their past position of pushing the fact that a diagonal route is another one of its services besides an express bus route or rail route that potentially provides faster service to a given location, in this case the diagonal route being quicker than the necessary two cross routes as an alternative.