BusHunter Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well it's official, according to this month's roster (Feb 2014) #906 has been retired. So i guess they are going to have extra light kits from Specialty Manufacturing. Another thing I noticed is it said that #4074 went to Kedzie. I haven't really noticed this myself, but I wasn't looking for it either. All other changes are already documented on here. (last updated 11/11/14 @ 1:30 PM) CTA #900's Retirement List: #900 retired 7/5/14 #901 retired 7/5/14 #902 retired 7/5/14 #903 retired 7/5/14 #904 retired 7/5/14 #905 retired 10/10/14 taken to south shops, still on the roster though as of 10/27/14; off roster 11/14 #906 retired 2/14 #907 still in service; has not been seen in service since 10/15/14; reported at south shops 11/10/14 in scrap line #908 retired 7/5/14 #909 retired 7/5/14 #900 - #904, #906, #908, #909 were up for auction to be sold as scrap buses; (since bidding has closed) (link below showing the winning bid on these buses) http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=1238603 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well it's official, according to this month's roster (Feb 2014) #906 has been retired. So i guess they are going to have extra light kits from Specialty Manufacturing. Another thing I noticed is it said that #4074 went to Kedzie. I haven't really noticed this myself, but I wasn't looking for it either. All other changes are already documented on here. The 900's(ISE-Thundervolt Series) seemed to be in the shop a lot since going into service. The 800's(GM/Allison Series) seemed to operate better. This might've helped the CTA decide what powertrain series to use for the 4000's when they procured them from New Flyer. The thought turns to after the 900's are gone, will the CTA keep the 800's operating too for a few more years, or will they start to retire them early as well? Kevin's article from 2007 here even mentions them being test buses "The CTA will test the 800- and 900-series DE40LF buses for at least one year to measure their performance in Chicago’s extreme weather conditions." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 #907 is only the active bus on Kedzie's roster. Every other 900s are still at 77th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 The 900's(ISE-Thundervolt Series) seemed to be in the shop a lot since going into service. The 800's(GM/Allison Series) seemed to operate better. This might've helped the CTA decide what powertrain series to use for the 4000's when they procured them from New Flyer. The thought turns to after the 900's are gone, will the CTA keep the 800's operating too for a few more years, or will they start to retire them early as well? Kevin's article from 2007 here even mentions them being test buses "The CTA will test the 800- and 900-series DE40LF buses for at least one year to measure their performance in Chicago’s extreme weather conditions." It was already stated at the time that they got the 4000-series artics that the GM-Allison system in the 800s proved to be superior to the ISE system in terms of what CTA wanted from a hybrid bus that would perform well in Chicago's rough weather. So your observation is a few years late. And the only reason the 900s have pretty much been sidelined is likely due to Busjack's discovery and revelation that ISE Corporation filed for bankruptcy which quite possibly caused a problem with getting parts for the 900s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 #907 is only the active bus on Kedzie's roster. Every other 900s are still at 77th. So you have seen the rest at 77th? I still have 5 on the roster. Or are you saying this is all you have seen in service from Kedzie lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 So you have seen the rest at 77th? I still have 5 on the roster. Or are you saying this is all you have seen in service from Kedzie lately? I'm pretty much saying that #907 is the "lone duck" on behalf of Kedzie. I've seen the rest of them except #906 (Sadly it's retired) at 77th. I have a bad feeling that #901, #903, and #904 might join #906 because they've been sitting there for quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 #909 at Kedzie. My son couldn't stop saying "bus" after we walked past there on this snowy evening lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 #909 at Kedzie. My son couldn't stop saying "bus" after we walked past there on this snowy evening lol. Yeah, that's the bus they always promote as green. It has the new blueish headlights in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Yeah, that's the bus they always promote as green. It has the new blueish headlights in it. Wow! Makes me thinking that there's still some hope for some of them to continue operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Wow! Makes me thinking that there's still some hope for some of them to continue operation. With the replacements of engines and drivetrains on the #1000's, one might wonder why not rebuild the #900's with either an alternate hybrid source/drivetrain or rebuild them as a diesel bus. The buses themselves could still see life. With ISE out of the picture otherwise it sounds like their done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 With the replacements of engines and drivetrains on the #1000's, one might wonder why not rebuild the #900's with either an alternate hybrid source/drivetrain or rebuild them as a diesel bus. The buses themselves could still see life. With ISE out of the picture otherwise it sounds like their done. I don't think Claypool would waste his time trying to alter the 900s with anything. To me, it's a waste of money just to have them, except #907, to just sit there like they're in an auto pound or something. It was a bs decision to have one of them retired (#906) after nearly 7 years in service!!! That just shows how deploring CTA can be when it comes to managing their fleet. What's next? Retired all 20 hybrids because they couldn't fit the criteria that CTA was expecting??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 With the replacements of engines and drivetrains on the #1000's, one might wonder why not rebuild the #900's with either an alternate hybrid source/drivetrain or rebuild them as a diesel bus. The buses themselves could still see life. With ISE out of the picture otherwise it sounds like their done. The thing that is still not clear is why most of them are hanging around 77th. If it is near the heavy maintenance facility, it could just be because they are supposed to get an in house rehab, as opposed to sending out 1000-1629 to N Power for what people now say is an engine swap. The requisition for 1050 interior light sets would seem to indicate that. On the other hand, trying to rebuild or replace the hybrid system probably would be another $100,000 per bus. So, unless someone at South Shops is posting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I don't think Claypool would waste his time trying to alter the 900s with anything. To me, it's a waste of money just to have them, except #907, to just sit there like they're in an auto pound or something. It was a bs decision to have one of them retired (#906) after nearly 7 years in service!!! That just shows how deploring CTA can be when it comes to managing their fleet. What's next? Retired all 20 hybrids because they couldn't fit the criteria that CTA was expecting??? Well, you have to remember that the CTA ordered the DE40LF series as test buses before the 4000's came into the picture. The plan was to test them for a year in Chicago's harsh weather to see how they hold up. The rehabs are for only 1,030 buses, which covers the D40LF's only. The DE40LF's may be retired soon, as they were only meant to be for testing(at least one year, they have been around for 7-8 now), not for long-term service... The thing that is still not clear is why most of them are hanging around 77th. If it is near the heavy maintenance facility, it could just be because they are supposed to get an in house rehab, as opposed to sending out 1000-1629 to N Power for what people now say is an engine swap. The requisition for 1050 interior light sets would seem to indicate that. On the other hand, trying to rebuild or replace the hybrid system probably would be another $100,000 per bus. So, unless someone at South Shops is posting.... I don't see why the CTA would procure 1,050 interior light sets since the 800's and 900's are not getting a rehab of anything else, and might be retired in the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 .... I don't see why the CTA would procure 1,050 interior light sets since the 800's and 900's are not getting a rehab of anything else, and might be retired in the next few years. Which may indicate that they are not being retired in the next few years. But then, why did Jewel and Mariano's procure Safeway Kitchens food for a couple of weeks (at the stores they were converting, but already owned)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well, you have to remember that the CTA ordered the DE40LF series as test buses before the 4000's came into the picture. The plan was to test them for a year in Chicago's harsh weather to see how they hold up. The rehabs are for only 1,030 buses, which covers the D40LF's only. The DE40LF's may be retired soon, as they were only meant to be for testing, not for long-term service... I don't see why the CTA would procure 1,050 interior light sets since the 800's and 900's are not getting a rehab of anything else, and might be retired in the next few years. Which may indicate that they are not being retired in the next few years. But then, why did Jewel and Mariano's procure Safeway Kitchens food for a couple of weeks (at the stores they were converting, but already owned)? Busjack is right that their ordering 1,050 lighting full lighting kits would indicate the 800s and 900s as a series are not going anywhere within the next few years. We've pointed to several pieces of information as evidence that the series themselves are not getting pulled any time soon, except maybe individual 900s if ISE's bankruptcy is indeed causing issues with procuring parts for the 900 series buses. So don't you think it's time to stop saying the DE40LFs will be retired soon? You have no basis to keep making that statement and as I said there are too many pieces of evidence suggesting otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Busjack is right that their ordering 1,050 lighting full lighting kits would indicate the 800s and 900s as a series are not going anywhere within the next few years. We've pointed to several pieces of information as evidence that the series themselves are not getting pulled any time soon, except maybe individual 900s if ISE's bankruptcy is indeed causing issues with procuring parts for the 900 series buses. So don't you think it's time to stop saying the DE40LFs will be retired soon? You have no basis to keep making that statement and as I said there are too many pieces of evidence suggesting otherwise. Why only 1,030 rehabs then? Why not 1,050? These buses are the same age as some of the oldest New Flyer D40LF's(800's are 2006 models and the 900's are 2007 models). If they CTA had plans to keep them long term, they would do more than light rehabs. They would get the propulsion systems rehabbed(the buses have Cummins Engines and the Hybrid Drive systems can be outsourced to a Green Co. specializing in Hybrid technology I'm sure). Remember when the CTA rehabbed the Flxible 6000's... which buses were the first to be retired? 6305-6329, the non-rehabbed Cummins buses. Most of the others with the Detroit Series-50 engines got rehabs... the only upgrade 6305-6329 got were the LED displays in the front and that was it. If you can show proof that other than lights, these buses are getting powertrain rehabs, then I'll believe otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Why only 1,030 rehabs then? Why not 1,050?... Because the other 20 buses don't have the same engines. The other contracts with Cummins NPower and New Flyer were for engine overhauls. And besides that, those contracts were for 1029 rehabs--because 1005 was rehabbed in house. And were those contracts issued in error because it was reported that some 1000s were bad wrecks? Now, I don't work at South Shops or CTA Procurement, but you admitted that you don't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 800's have the same engine as the 4000's(Cummins ISL paired with a GM/Allison HybriDrive system). Cummins ISL engines are found in 1630-2029, except no HybriDrive system. 900's have a Cummins ISB engine paired with the ISE/Thundervolt HybriDrive system. Cummins ISB engines are found in the Optimas. Pretty sure a company such as Cummins N Power could rehab the diesel portion of the Hybrid 40' buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 800's have the same engine as the 4000's(Cummins ISL paired with a GM/Allison HybriDrive system). Cummins ISL engines are found in 1630-2029, except no HybriDrive system. 900's have a Cummins ISB engine paired with the ISE/Thundervolt HybriDrive system. Cummins ISB engines are found in the Optimas. Pretty sure a company such as Cummins N Power could rehab the diesel portion of the Hybrid 40' buses. One, I don't think the same liters of displacement, or the hybrid wouldn't save anything. News reports at the time indicated that hybrid buses could run on the same Cummins engine as in a Ram pickup truck (certainly the series ones). Second, as I implied above, why don't you write CTA Procurement and get an answer, and then post it here? Addresses are here. Now, maybe it turns out like Huberman hiding the intent to pull the NABIs, but I doubt that CTA would do that two times in a row. CTA certainly stated that it was replacing the Optimas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwantae Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I don't think Claypool would waste his time trying to alter the 900s with anything. To me, it's a waste of money just to have them, except #907, to just sit there like they're in an auto pound or something. It was a bs decision to have one of them retired (#906) after nearly 7 years in service!!! That just shows how deploring CTA can be when it comes to managing their fleet. What's next? Retired all 20 hybrids because they couldn't fit the criteria that CTA was expecting??? I drove past 77th couple days ago and I hardly see any 900s sitting there, I see mostly 500s but I totally agree with SW4400 that 900s were lemons since they entered service in 2007, I actually liked them but they were so hard to catch because they're constantly breaking down often. I Believe that they're about to be next soon to be retired and 800s could stay until it's time for oldest 1000s to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I drove past 77th couple days ago and I hardly see any 900s sitting there, I see mostly 500s but I totally agree with SW4400 that 900s were lemons since they entered service in 2007, I actually liked them but they were so hard to catch because they're constantly breaking down often. I knew that they're about to be next soon to be retired and 800s could stay until it's time for oldest 1000s to retire. There is a difference between "I knew" and "I believe." As I indicated above, write the Procurement Department if there is any actual information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Well, you have to remember that the CTA ordered the DE40LF series as test buses before the 4000's came into the picture. The plan was to test them for a year in Chicago's harsh weather to see how they hold up. The rehabs are for only 1,030 buses, which covers the D40LF's only. The DE40LF's may be retired soon, as they were only meant to be for testing(at least one year, they have been around for 7-8 now), not for long-term service... I don't see why the CTA would procure 1,050 interior light sets since the 800's and 900's are not getting a rehab of anything else, and might be retired in the next few years. Which may indicate that they are not being retired in the next few years. But then, why did Jewel and Mariano's procure Safeway Kitchens food for a couple of weeks (at the stores they were converting, but already owned)? Busjack is right that their ordering 1,050 lighting full lighting kits would indicate the 800s and 900s as a series are not going anywhere within the next few years. We've pointed to several pieces of information as evidence that the series themselves are not getting pulled any time soon, except maybe individual 900s if ISE's bankruptcy is indeed causing issues with procuring parts for the 900 series buses. So don't you think it's time to stop saying the DE40LFs will be retired soon? You have no basis to keep making that statement and as I said there are too many pieces of evidence suggesting otherwise. I drove past 77th couple days ago and I hardly see any 900s sitting there, I see mostly 500s but I totally agree with SW4400 that 900s were lemons since they entered service in 2007, I actually liked them but they were so hard to catch because they're constantly breaking down often. I Believe that they're about to be next soon to be retired and 800s could stay until it's time for oldest 1000s to retire. Soooo drawing upon the discussion and evidence stated above, I guess its safe to say that the 900-series Hybrids are probably going to have their full 12 years; BUT any bus in that series that gets sidelined isn't moving anywhere else until they find some type of alternative to ISE for parts. On a bigger note, luckily CTA pretty much a potentially NASTY 243 (hybrid) artic shortage by choosing the tech from the 800-series to power the 4000's. If they indeed would've stuck with ISE we'd be in BIG trouble only working with the 67 diesel powered for its artic needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 One, I don't think the same liters of displacement, or the hybrid wouldn't save anything. News reports at the time indicated that hybrid buses could run on the same Cummins engine as in a Ram pickup truck (certainly the series ones). Second, as I implied above, why don't you write CTA Procurement and get an answer, and then post it here? Addresses are here. Now, maybe it turns out like Huberman hiding the intent to pull the NABIs, but I doubt that CTA would do that two times in a row. CTA certainly stated that it was replacing the Optimas. Thank you Busjack. You hit it right on the nail of why I keep pointing out to him he's got little basis to say the DE40LFs as a whole are getting pulled soon and needs to let that thought go. If they were going to pull them, they could have announced that AT THE SAME TIME that they announced they were going to eventually pull the 500s soon. Yet they didn't do so. And it surprises me he hasn't caught on from his even his own statements with the lighting jobs, that he can't keep saying the DE40LFs will likely be pulled early (though I'll grant him he tried to pull that back some by modifying that to get some of them up to the 12 year mark). Why spend money upgrading lights if you're going to pull the model early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 ...On a bigger note, luckily CTA pretty much a potentially NASTY 243 (hybrid) artic shortage by choosing the tech from the 800-series to power the 4000's. If they indeed would've stuck with ISE we'd be in BIG trouble only working with the 67 diesel powered for its artic needs. I think you meant 900s, but anyway, the Allison system was pretty well proved in Seattle, and the "sudden unexplained rush" to lease 150 hybrids was to get Seattle options and essentially the same specs. Although there was some talk on this forum one way or the other, the series system didn't really get much of a trial here before the options were acquired. It also wasn't very clear (except for some drawings showing the drive motors on the center axle) whether a series system was adapted to an articulated bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I think you meant 900s, but anyway, the Allison system was pretty well proved in Seattle, and the "sudden unexplained rush" to lease 150 hybrids was to get Seattle options and essentially the same specs. Although there was some talk on this forum one way or the other, the series system didn't really get much of a trial here before the options were acquired. It also wasn't very clear (except for some drawings showing the drive motors on the center axle) whether a series system was adapted to an articulated bus.Wait.... So, they used the system from the 900's for the 4000's? I thought the Allison system from the 800's were used? I was saying if they would've used the ISE for our hybrid artics then that would've potentially become problematic in keeping all 243 of them in service seeing as this problem came up in maintaining our ISE-powered buses. Thus leading to an artic shortage similar to 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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