Random Pace

[strictures]

On 1/4/2025 at 12:31 PM, artthouwill said:

Apparently the demand doesn't justify that.  Therefore Pace covers service yhe way it does.  Consider that ridership doesn't fill up a cutaway vehicle.   

But back to the topic,  the 475 is a route. Albeit a special event route for Ravinia.   The question is whether this service is suspended due to lack of staffing?  I would suppose suspended routes would still count or be included in the proposed topic question.   

That would include the 327  which is a fixed route.

If they built it, they will come.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

If they built it, they will come.

1. If that were the case, there would be no need to hire Jarrett Walker. While he has some theories about coverage generating ridership if the state kicks in $ 1.5 billion, it's still necessary to do market research to see if there is demand. Despite his apparent disregard of On Demand, the death of 712 and the apparent adequacy of On Demand indicates there isn't.
2. You are being inconsistent. You said that the Peterson-Ridge station was a waste of money, but now say "if they build it they will come" where the only two traffic generators are the courthouse and fairgrounds. Unless you have a developer with a transit oriented development plan (like NICTD in Michigan City, or apparently Evanston has several), it won't.

[Busjack]

On 1/4/2025 at 12:31 PM, artthouwill said:

But back to the topic,  the 475 is a route. Albeit a special event route for Ravinia.   The question is whether this service is suspended due to lack of staffing?  I would suppose suspended routes would still count or be included in the proposed topic question.   

That would include the 327  which is a fixed route.

The topic changed, but still back to Pace.

474 and 475 were always Ravinia, and the question is only whether Highland Park wants to run them. Ravinia quit using Trumbull Woods in Glencoe for remote parking, so there's no need for 475.

327 appeared similar to the Shuttle Bugs in that it went to a specific industrial park, rush hour only. What all 3 had in common is that some private entity undoubtedly subsidized Pace. UPS and Amazon apparently still do;  the dissolution of the Lake-Cook TMA definitely indicates that the Shuttle Bugs are dead (also indicated by Walgreens* and Allstate shrinking their footprints and demolishing much of their campuses, and VanGo being used at Lake-Cook),

-----------

*Note also in that article that Baxter is gone, but Deerfield blocked a proposal to build a logistics center.

[busfan2847]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

*Note also in that article that Baxter is gone, but Deerfield blocked a proposal to build a logistics center.

Baxter have decided to stay after Deerfield blocked the logistics center and are moving people back in from other sites.

[busfan2847]

The two Ravinia routes were 475 South and 476 North. Both started 6/79. Parking in Turnbull Woods was banned from 1/1/2004, the 475 Ravinia South route was then diverted to the Chicago Botanical Garden parking on extremely busy nights, but ended at some point (any idea of date?)

The remaining route which was Ravinia North was renumbered 475 (Ravinia Festival Direct) after the South route ended. It did not run in 2020 but was restarted on busy nights at Ravinia from 7/21.

474 was a route from Highland Park to Braeside primarily via St Johns Ave which lasted from 2/2/75 to 8/25/86

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

The remaining route which was Ravinia North was renumbered 475 (Ravinia Festival Direct) after the South route ended.

Yes. Searching for Highland Park on pacebus.com comes up with 475 - Ravinia Festival Direct, although there is nothing on the buses or RTAMS to indicate any route number.

The more interesting speculation concerns Express to Events, which, except for the community buses (Highland Park and Rosemont) and Bears games, are suspended; the notice stating:

Quote

Due to ongoing bus operator shortages affecting numerous industries nationwide, most Express to Events services continue their suspensions until further notice including service to Wrigley Field, Guaranteed Rate Field, Allstate Arena, SeatGeek Stadium and Six Flags Great America.

Also, even though Pace has a study of the central Tri-State, if and when 877, 888, and 895 come back is also a matter of speculation.

[strictures]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

1. If that were the case, there would be no need to hire Jarrett Walker. While he has some theories about coverage generating ridership if the state kicks in $ 1.5 billion, it's still necessary to do market research to see if there is demand. Despite his apparent disregard of On Demand, the death of 712 and the apparent adequacy of On Demand indicates there isn't.
2. You are being inconsistent. You said that the Peterson-Ridge station was a waste of money, but now say "if they build it they will come" where the only two traffic generators are the courthouse and fairgrounds. Unless you have a developer with a transit oriented development plan (like NICTD in Michigan City, or apparently Evanston has several), it won't.

I'm not inconsistent. There was never any demand for Peterson/Ridge except from former alderman Pat O'Connor, whose wife has extensive real estate holdings in the area & current alderman Vasquez, who lives less than 200 feet from it.  The general public never wanted it, the Northwestern Ry closed the Kenmore Station in the same location around 1960.  The DuPage Courthouse has lots of people using it.  Metra doesn't have to be like the Peterson/Ridge insanity, wasting $27 million building a station at County Farm Road, a simple pair of platforms, two small waiting rooms are all that's necessary.  One question that hasn't been answered, do any Loop lawyers need to go to the DuPage Courthouse, they would be the biggest users, along with a few defendants from the city that get caught for traffic violations in DuPage..

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, strictures said:

I'm not inconsistent. There was never any demand for Peterson/Ridge except from former alderman Pat O'Connor, whose wife has extensive real estate holdings in the area & current alderman Vasquez, who lives less than 200 feet from it.  The general public never wanted it, the Northwestern Ry closed the Kenmore Station in the same location around 1960.  The DuPage Courthouse has lots of people using it.  Metra doesn't have to be like the Peterson/Ridge insanity, wasting $27 million building a station at County Farm Road, a simple pair of platforms, two small waiting rooms are all that's necessary.  One question that hasn't been answered, do any Loop lawyers need to go to the DuPage Courthouse, they would be the biggest users, along with a few defendants from the city that get caught for traffic violations in DuPage..

1. You are inconsistent. Saying an alderman had property in the area indicates there is population. Coordinating the 84 bus with inbound arrivals indicates there is some demand. Just because  you prefer to . wait 45 minutes for the 22 bus doesn't mean that someone who works in Wilmette and lives in North Park wants to.
2. Metra isn't going to build "2 platforms." In that Metra iis building new stations along the 59th to Kensington stretch (about 50 years too late), most of which are flag stops, indicates that isn't the standard today.Congratulations for living in the past (especially with the Kenmore reference).
3. You don't have any customer research on why 712 failed, and why 301 in rush hour and On Demand are inadequate. Since this is a Pace topic, why are you ignoring that?
4. Again, from experience, most lawyers who practice in DuPage have offices there or drive. Do you really think a lawyer could get away with charging a client $400/hour for  40 minute ride to Forest Park and then a 1:10 ride on 301? They might send a clerk to Wheaton, who can take the On Demand. Get real.

[busfan2847]

14 hours ago, Busjack said:

Also, even though Pace has a study of the central Tri-State, if and when 877, 888, and 895 come back is also a matter of speculation.

The 877, 888 and 895 were three of the 69 suspended routes that were permanently eliminated on 11/10/2022

[Busjack]

17 minutes ago, busfan2847 said:

The 877, 888 and 895 were three of the 69 suspended routes that were permanently eliminated on 11/10/2022

That was known. I said it was a matter of speculation if and when the Board would authorize bringing them back (as it did the Harper College part of 696 as 697, leaving the rest to the Arlington Heights-Rolling Meadows On Demand).

Clearly, Pace is not going to get funding for the Tri-state project if its intent is never to run buses there.