If I ran Transit for one day...

[artthouwill]

I. Agree that the Humboldt Park line should go further west.  My ideal extension would be to Brickyard. 

[strictures]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

At least people are thinking.   I have some slightly different ideas, some I have advocated before.

I would love to see the Humboldt Park branch return,  but I would attach to the Pink Line.  It would run concurrent with the Blue Line from Damen to Racine and use the Loomis inclune to run to 54/Cermak. 

I have always supported a Brown Line extension to Jefferson Park.  Now it would be terribly expensive and probably will never happen. 

A Red Line express only males sense if you make the Purple Line a full time shuttle. Or my preference would be to thru route the Purple Line express through the subway and the SSM to Ashland and Cottage Grove.   This would allow the Green Line to circle the Loop and return to the West Side. 

I would be in favor of a Green Line reroute from Indiana serving the old Kenwood branch and running BESIDE ME service using an abandoned CN r.o.w making inner city stops to 111th and possibly joining the extended Red Line ro 130th, or replacing the South Chicago branch ( not my preference).  I'm not in favor of turning the METRA ELECTRIC into a CTA service.   This idea is insane whether it was called Gray Lune, Gold Line, or Lime Line. 

A Midway to O'Hare service is a fantastic idea and can be routed near Cicero Ave with I-55 and I-194 as an alternate. 

A few Circles gave been proposed before.  Mt favorite ran from 87th to Howard.  NB it ran via the Dan Ryan until 52rd where it connects with the Green line.   It would continue West past Ashland and then turn north to run with the UP tracks.  It would connect with the Orange Line at 49th and serve 35th/Archer.  Then near Paulina, it would run north to connect with the Pink Line at 21st.  It would continue through the Paulina Connector and the Old MET routing along Paulina=Woid until connecting to the Brown Line.  Past Montrose it would continue along the UP-N  to near Howardwhere it would veer to Howard Station.   This probably would  never happen though it would connect most lines outside of downtown. 

I'm still waiting on the Orange Line extension to Ford City.   I haven't heard anything about this at all.  I'm guessing the Red Line extension is the focus niw.

The original mid 1960s plan was that when the Dan Ryan Line opened, the SSML would be abandoned south of the St. Charles Airline & all of that would move to two no longer in use tracks of the IC Mainline, using two tracks of the St. Charles Airline to switch the trains eastward.  Then the new L line would go to 115th [Kensington] & the IC was going to close a large number of stations north of 115th.  Lack of funds killed that in the 1960s, but that fool Richie Daley killed it forever by rehabbing the SSML, mostly with federal funds & that requires the SSML to be used for 75 years or until about 2070.

[artthouwill]

29 minutes ago, strictures said:

The original mid 1960s plan was that when the Dan Ryan Line opened, the SSML would be abandoned south of the St. Charles Airline & all of that would move to two no longer in use tracks of the IC Mainline, using two tracks of the St. Charles Airline to switch the trains eastward.  Then the new L line would go to 115th [Kensington] & the IC was going to close a large number of stations north of 115th.  Lack of funds killed that in the 1960s, but that fool Richie Daley killed it forever by rehabbing the SSML, mostly with federal funds & that requires the SSML to be used for 75 years or until about 2070.

At this point it looks very difficult,  if not impossible,  tobuild a turn from the SSM tracks to turn east at the St Charles Air Line. The building just north of the St Charles AirLuneamonf others makes this a very tight turn.  The middle tracks that come from the 13th St inclune adds to the difficulty.  I don't know what the area looked like in the late 50s and 1960.  Perhaps it could have been possible then.

[strictures]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

At this point it looks very difficult,  if not impossible,  tobuild a turn from the SSM tracks to turn east at the St Charles Air Line. The building just north of the St Charles AirLuneamonf others makes this a very tight turn.  The middle tracks that come from the 13th St inclune adds to the difficulty.  I don't know what the area looked like in the late 50s and 1960.  Perhaps it could have been possible then.

None of those condo buildings existed then, just some old warehouses, so the turn would've been easy & not a tight 90' radius like the Loop L turns.

[NewFlyerMCI]

Took some of the Hyde Park/South Shore discussions and worked a mock-up of what Stony Island should look like with Jumpservice (actual Jump BRT, not the BRT creep we have on Jeffery)

[Sam92]

14 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Took some of the Hyde Park/South Shore discussions and worked a mock-up of what Stony Island should look like with Jumpservice (actual Jump BRT, not the BRT creep we have on Jeffery)

Tbh the rerouted Stony island would double as both the local and express. The idea was to insert 28's at 63rd to serve Hyde park and eliminate the milk run of the current 6 but your rush hour X28 can be a reformed 6 for rush hours which I suggested to retain union statio-HP service. Stony island flows well enough to not need enhancements. The problem with Jeffery is that they never implemented what they said they would fully along with bunching which is why swapping with 26 and using peak hour short turns between Lake and 83rd; and alternating off peak runs to do chicago-83rd might be better.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Tbh the rerouted Stony island would double as both the local and express. The idea was to insert 28's at 63rd to serve Hyde park and eliminate the milk run of the current 6 but your rush hour X28 can be a reformed 6 for rush hours which I suggested to retain union statio-HP service. Stony island flows well enough to not need enhancements. The problem with Jeffery is that they never implemented what they said they would fully along with bunching which is why swapping with 26 and using peak hour short turns between Lake and 83rd; and alternating off peak runs to do chicago-83rd might be better.

Thanks for the feedback. I mostly agree with all that you said, and if this specifically hadn’t been a proposal for true Jump, the graphic would be reflected that.

Stony Island does flow smooth, but I wanted center running bus lanes at least because in a real-world application, there should be little justified opposition to them. The medians are just trees, no parks or walkways and Stony Island is wide enough to maintain left turns and no parking would be eliminated. 94th to 68th could be done in under 20 mins with lanes and limited stops.

[Sam92]

7 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Thanks for the feedback. I mostly agree with all that you said, and if this specifically hadn’t been a proposal for true Jump, the graphic would be reflected that.

Stony Island does flow smooth, but I wanted center running bus lanes at least because in a real-world application, there should be little justified opposition to them. The medians are just trees, no parks or walkways and Stony Island is wide enough to maintain left turns and no parking would be eliminated. 94th to 68th could be done in under 20 mins with lanes and limited stops.

Stony was actually proposed as part of a BRT that rerouted along king drive north of 47th vs lake shore. BRT and zone express usually don't mix, the only reason for "Jump" was because BRT projects help get more artics quicker (which is what Cta thought it needed more of at the time). 103rd was short on artics at the time so a "BRT pilot" gave a way to get money for that and any improvements needed on that stretch. The real issue with adjusting Stony island for what I proposed is taking service off of Lake Park or Hyde Park; I believe the new 28 should just stay on lake park and in rush hours the remaining union station service would use Hyde park still

 

[Railguy]

Would make Metra UP NW line stop trains stop at Clybourn in ruah hour instead of limited service.  Running empty trains past passengers having to wait an hr for service is not serving markets.  Not everyone needs or wants to go downtown to catch a train.

[Sam92]

9 hours ago, Railguy said:

Would make Metra UP NW line stop trains stop at Clybourn in ruah hour instead of limited service.  Running empty trains past passengers having to wait an hr for service is not serving markets.  Not everyone needs or wants to go downtown to catch a train.

I agree. Metra can tap into some lines paralleling a Cta line and act as a "Purple Express" in some areas like Oak Park or the far North. RI can get a boost and contrary to what many think it wouldnt be redundant

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:12 AM, Railguy said:

Would make Metra UP NW line stop trains stop at Clybourn in ruah hour instead of limited service.  Running empty trains past passengers having to wait an hr for service is not serving markets.  Not everyone needs or wants to go downtown to catch a train.

In fairness, UPN trains run every 30 mins during daylight hours on the weekday now, but this is otherwise the correct move

[NewFlyerMCI]

Did a mock-up of what I think a redesigned LaSalle Street Station should look like:

• The two adjacent parking lots would be bought up and razed
• LaSalle & Clinton stations get rehabbed, with LaSalle getting an auxiliary entrance
  • Harrison as well just cause it's as old as the other two
• SWS being rerouted

Benefits are:

• 12 & 18 get better(ish) access to downtown, along with a better layover point for all routes in terms of driver relief.
• Riders going to/from LSS get better access to the rest of downtown, including new one seat rider to Illinois Center, Merchandise Mart & the Mag Mile
  • Other 1-seat ride areas include the parts of UIC & IMD served by bus, and the Far North side (if someone needs to go that far out for some reason)

Things I considered

• Initially, all routes were stopping on Financial Pl, but since 2/6 routes are full time artic and another one is part-time or better, I moved two of the routes to create more space
• I wanted the LaSalle Express routes to start here so they could properly queue up to depart in the evening, but again, space constraints
• Same as above for 148 & Pace 755
• Thought about moving the 28 to here so it wouldn't have to travel as far, but I don't know how many riders take it to/from Union, so I decided against it.

[strictures]

16 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Did a mock-up of what I think a redesigned LaSalle Street Station should look like:

• The two adjacent parking lots would be bought up and razed
• LaSalle & Clinton stations get rehabbed, with LaSalle getting an auxiliary entrance
  • Harrison as well just cause it's as old as the other two
• SWS being rerouted

Benefits are:

• 12 & 18 get better(ish) access to downtown, along with a better layover point for all routes in terms of driver relief.
• Riders going to/from LSS get better access to the rest of downtown, including new one seat rider to Illinois Center, Merchandise Mart & the Mag Mile
  • Other 1-seat ride areas include the parts of UIC & IMD served by bus, and the Far North side (if someone needs to go that far out for some reason)

Things I considered

• Initially, all routes were stopping on Financial Pl, but since 2/6 routes are full time artic and another one is part-time or better, I moved two of the routes to create more space
• I wanted the LaSalle Express routes to start here so they could properly queue up to depart in the evening, but again, space constraints
• Same as above for 148 & Pace 755
• Thought about moving the 28 to here so it wouldn't have to travel as far, but I don't know how many riders take it to/from Union, so I decided against it.

Not bad, but it needs a direct connection to the LaSalle Blue Line station & a rebuilt direct connection to the LaSalle/Van Buren Loop L Station.

[Sam92]

17 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Did a mock-up of what I think a redesigned LaSalle Street Station should look like:

• The two adjacent parking lots would be bought up and razed
• LaSalle & Clinton stations get rehabbed, with LaSalle getting an auxiliary entrance
  • Harrison as well just cause it's as old as the other two
• SWS being rerouted

Benefits are:

• 12 & 18 get better(ish) access to downtown, along with a better layover point for all routes in terms of driver relief.
• Riders going to/from LSS get better access to the rest of downtown, including new one seat rider to Illinois Center, Merchandise Mart & the Mag Mile
  • Other 1-seat ride areas include the parts of UIC & IMD served by bus, and the Far North side (if someone needs to go that far out for some reason)

Things I considered

• Initially, all routes were stopping on Financial Pl, but since 2/6 routes are full time artic and another one is part-time or better, I moved two of the routes to create more space
• I wanted the LaSalle Express routes to start here so they could properly queue up to depart in the evening, but again, space constraints
• Same as above for 148 & Pace 755
• Thought about moving the 28 to here so it wouldn't have to travel as far, but I don't know how many riders take it to/from Union, so I decided against it.

That's not bad. 28 needs to stay it union and 130s need to stay where they are because those are business district services. Moving 147 here probably helps take space constraints off of rush hour 146/148 buses staging at congress plaza. 37 I'm iffy about cause again it serves the business district. 12/18 staging there looks good cause you set up a nice State st- Delano court connection for people that Wanna go to the movies or shop. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, strictures said:

Not bad, but it needs a direct connection to the LaSalle Blue Line station & a rebuilt direct connection to the LaSalle/Van Buren Loop L Station.

400 and 440 S LaSalle isn't owned by Metra so I'm not sure if the building owners are interested in building connections to either or both LaSalle Street CTA stations.  If I remember correctly,  you still have to access the Metra station from outside the building.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

Not bad, but it needs a direct connection to the LaSalle Blue Line station & a rebuilt direct connection to the LaSalle/Van Buren Loop L Station.

Forgot about LaSalle-Van Buren, but the blue staircases on the map are entrances to LaSalle Blue Line, and I put a new one at Ida B Wells & Financial Pl

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

That's not bad. 28 needs to stay it union and 130s need to stay where they are because those are business district services. Moving 147 here probably helps take space constraints off of rush hour 146/148 buses staging at congress plaza. 37 I'm iffy about cause again it serves the business district. 12/18 staging there looks good cause you set up a nice State st- Delano court connection for people that Wanna go to the movies or shop. 

That’s about what I figured for the 28/130s other than space constraints.

the 37 still would serve the business district; it loses its connection to Union Station (but not any of the bus routes serving it) and shaves a few minutes off travel time. I figured losing CUS was fine since it’s a weekday only route and by that point, there probably aren’t that many riders left.

[ChicagoNova]

I would straighten the south side main between Roosevelt & Pershing Roads, even as they're about to straighten the tracks between Belmont & Addison, so the trains could operate faster.

[NewFlyerMCI]

22 minutes ago, ChicagoNova said:

I would straighten the south side main between Roosevelt & Pershing Roads, even as they're about to straighten the tracks between Belmont & Addison, so the trains could operate faster.

The only time the track isn't straight is when it switches over from State, to between Clark & Wentworth. Also, the trains run the same speed there that they do on the rest of that section, except for maybe the ascent to Cermak-Chinatown, which is gravity's fault

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, ChicagoNova said:

I would straighten the south side main between Roosevelt & Pershing Roads, even as they're about to straighten the tracks between Belmont & Addison, so the trains could operate faster.

That's about the straightest stretch of track there is.   The problem is that the Green Line (or the Red Line) doesn't ascend from the subway up the 13th Street incline and contibue straight on the SSM.   Green Line trains have to crossover near 18th St.  Prior to 1992, the Green Line was the Lake Dan Ryan and the Red Line was the Howard Englewood Jackson Park. 

If you are suggesting a realignment back to the original routes, that's interesting. 

[ChicagoNova]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

That's about the straightest stretch of track there is.   The problem is that the Green Line (or the Red Line) doesn't ascend from the subway up the 13th Street incline and contibue straight on the SSM.   Green Line trains have to crossover near 18th St.  Prior to 1992, the Green Line was the Lake Dan Ryan and the Red Line was the Howard Englewood Jackson Park. 

If you are suggesting a realignment back to the original routes, that's interesting. 

No that's not it. Keep the Red Line where it is. The thing is I see some curves that I don't think are necessary between 18th & Pershing.

[artthouwill]

41 minutes ago, ChicagoNova said:

No that's not it. Keep the Red Line where it is. The thing is I see some curves that I don't think are necessary between 18th & Pershing.

Those little  curves have been there for thew longest time.  Perhaps there were buildings along that stretch that caused the old transit system to build around the structures.  Until the 2000z,  these curves hD no effect on the speed of the trains.   Honestly they still don't,  but it's. Ore of a maintenance Issue. 

[strictures]

14 hours ago, ChicagoNova said:

I would straighten the south side main between Roosevelt & Pershing Roads, even as they're about to straighten the tracks between Belmont & Addison, so the trains could operate faster.

When they rebuilt the SSM into part of the Green Line, I never understood why they didn't realign the S-Turn at Indiana into a double 45 degree turn [similar to the realignment of the Harrison curve] & also why they kept it at that high level over the abandoned RR Right-of-way? 

There was so much empty land there at the time, they easily could've bought it through eminent domain & made the turn easier & lowered the tracks to a normal level.   Most of the abandoned ROW has been demolished & only a few isolated short blocks of the embankment are left. 

[artthouwill]

9 hours ago, strictures said:

When they rebuilt the SSM into part of the Green Line, I never understood why they didn't realign the S-Turn at Indiana into a double 45 degree turn [similar to the realignment of the Harrison curve] & also why they kept it at that high level over the abandoned RR Right-of-way? 

There was so much empty land there at the time, they easily could've bought it through eminent domain & made the turn easier & lowered the tracks to a normal level.   Most of the abandoned ROW has been demolished & only a few isolated short blocks of the embankment are left. 

I think that's being picky.  That's not a major S Curve.   If you want to straighten S Curves,  we can start with the Sheridan one on the Red/Purple Line  and I'm sure we could find a way to straighten the North Ave Curve with the Brown and Purple Line.  Now that one might be move difficult now.  I didn't know if the structure could be built to continue along Clybourn across North Ave,  eliminating 2 curves.  Those are more urgent than the extended  S at 40th between State and Prairie.

[ChicagoNova]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I think that's being picky.  That's not a major S Curve.   If you want to straighten S Curves,  we can start with the Sheridan one on the Red/Purple Line  and I'm sure we could find a way to straighten the North Ave Curve with the Brown and Purple Line.  Now that one might be move difficult now.  I didn't know if the structure could be built to continue along Clybourn across North Ave,  eliminating 2 curves.  Those are more urgent than the extended  S at 40th between State and Prairie.

I wish I could think of a way to redo the S curve surrounding Sheridan Red Line Station.