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5 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

With 3 minute headway i don't think this works.  A short turn Brown has to clear the flyover, stop, the rail operator has to walk through 8 cars, switch  track signals to get to the stage track, all in less than 3 minutes because the follower is waiting.  This assumes a perfect world.

It happens on the blue line during rush hour. They have to walk the train for sleepers, walk back to go to Morgan middle. The same would happen here plus since i suggested running lite it would take less time due to not dealing with clearing passengers. Just get to south port and move back to clear the flyover. 

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Just now, Sam92 said:

It happens on the blue line during rush hour. They have to walk the train for sleepers, walk back to go to Morgan middle. The same would happen here plus since i suggested running lite it would take less time due to not dealing with clearing passengers. Just get to south port and move back to clear the flyover. 

The difference is that on the Blue Line the short turns go directly to a middle teack, which doesn't impede the progress of the immediate follower unless the first train was delayed.  In your scenario, the short turn train still has to cross directly in front of the follower after the flyover, or cross in front of Red Line trains as they currently do.  Besides,  currently Blue Line rush trains run about 5 to 7 minutes apart during rush periods.   As a result. I haven't seen any short turning trains either at UIC Halsted or Jefferson Park.  I'm sure this is pandemic related.

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2 hours ago, strictures said:

You left out the north end of the 151s which run to Clark/Devon.  Supposedly they run at 20 minute headways north of Belmont in each direction, but there are many times when the Ventra app shows no buses, which means it's a 30+ minute wait. 

Earlier this year, I waited for a SB 22 at Clark/Devon for over 45 minutes.   Over the years, I have waited over an hour for a NB Broadway at Elmdale & then 6 NB Broadways came. 

Of course none of those are as bad as when a Pace bus that's on an hourly basis, has an entire run missed for some reason & the wait is 2 hours!

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Screenshot_20210428-142748_Ride Chicago.jpg

Screenshot_20210428-204747_Ride Chicago.jpg

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2 hours ago, strictures said:

You left out the north end of the 151s which run to Clark/Devon.  Supposedly they run at 20 minute headways north of Belmont in each direction, but there are many times when the Ventra app shows no buses, which means it's a 30+ minute wait. 

Earlier this year, I waited for a SB 22 at Clark/Devon for over 45 minutes.   Over the years, I have waited over an hour for a NB Broadway at Elmdale & then 6 NB Broadways came. 

Does the Ventra app not showing buses mean the buses aren't there/coming? Bus tracking technology is far from perfect, and is often misread as "coming in # minutes" instead of "# minutes away" like it should. And the broadway situation seems like extraordinary circumstances, like with what I mentioned to SaneHuman.

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1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

21432253_Screenshot_20210428-204657_RideChicago.thumb.jpg.1a815b799cfb9dcbffd824198a4c8391.jpg665051339_Screenshot_20210428-204806_RideChicago.thumb.jpg.755350c80458ebdd02c90a3fcff596a9.jpg

Screenshot_20210428-142748_Ride Chicago.jpg

Screenshot_20210428-204747_Ride Chicago.jpg

Seriously?   Just because at the moment you picked there were plenty of buses on those routes.  I ride those routes regularly & so many times the waits are far over 20 minutes & often 30 minutes.

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1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Does the Ventra app not showing buses mean the buses aren't there/coming? Bus tracking technology is far from perfect, and is often misread as "coming in # minutes" instead of "# minutes away" like it should. And the broadway situation seems like extraordinary circumstances, like with what I mentioned to SaneHuman.

The Ventra app doesn't show any buses if there aren't any coming within 30 minutes.  And there are many times I have waited for 30+ minutes for all three routes I mentioned. 

One of the things that screw up all three routes are the driver changes at Foster.  I have had multiple times where the relief driver is over five minutes late & on two separate occasions, I've had relief drivers then spend five minutes & yes I measured the time, spend that time cleaning the driver's seat & the surrounding area.  Stop having driver changes for the SB runs, which are usually on time, but get delayed when the relief driver is late & make the changes only for the NB runs, like they all were 20 years ago.  Drivers are rarely late for NB changes.

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5 hours ago, strictures said:

Seriously?   Just because at the moment you picked there were plenty of buses on those routes.  I ride those routes regularly & so many times the waits are far over 20 minutes & often 30 minutes.

I travel the city a lot when I'm not operating, the reason why I showed you those screenshots was to give you an idea of what normal service should look like and I took those last night while traveling to and from work. I want everyone to get a better idea of what normal service is suppose to look like versus what they say it looks like. Depending on your location and the time of day you're more than likely to be in the dead zone of the route where you'll get normal service for maybe 3 or 4 buses and then boom one run isn't filled which will create that gap you're referring to, like I said before a number of factors will contribute to the headways looking the way they are. You'll get consistent service for an 30 minutes and then you'll get one run missing on a street where the headway will go from 10-12 minutes to 20 minutes. Now sometimes multiple runs will go missing but for the most part service does run normally, certain weekdays of service sometimes will run like weekend service but at the end of the day we all have to adapt if we understand the routes we're taking, if I know at a certain time of the day that the route I'm taking has a major gap coming up I will leave earlier to avoid that. It's a hard sell but sometimes that gets the job done as far as traveling goes.

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11 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Does the Ventra app not showing buses mean the buses aren't there/coming? Bus tracking technology is far from perfect, and is often misread as "coming in # minutes" instead of "# minutes away" like it should. And the broadway situation seems like extraordinary circumstances, like with what I mentioned to SaneHuman.

Here's the real issue and I'll use the RideChicago app I'm using as an example. Whenever a bus is lets say a mile away the normal wait time for it is between 2-4 minutes give or take the route, the passengers on the bus ,on the street and of course traffic conditions. Sometimes a full bus or empty bus will show up on the tracker as approaching when its still half a mile away to less than a quarter of a mile a way and then disappear of the tracker and then pop back up before even getting to the stop you're currently at it will usually show approaching less than 200 feet away. The GPS on these buses will sometimes give misleading data back to the tracker but for the most part its accurate. 

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7 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

I travel the city a lot when I'm not operating, the reason why I showed you those screenshots was to give you an idea of what normal service should look like and I took those last night while traveling to and from work. I want everyone to get a better idea of what normal service is suppose to look like versus what they say it looks like. Depending on your location and the time of day you're more than likely to be in the dead zone of the route where you'll get normal service for maybe 3 or 4 buses and then boom one run isn't filled which will create that gap you're referring to, like I said before a number of factors will contribute to the headways looking the way they are. You'll get consistent service for an 30 minutes and then you'll get one run missing on a street where the headway will go from 10-12 minutes to 20 minutes. Now sometimes multiple runs will go missing but for the most part service does run normally, certain weekdays of service sometimes will run like weekend service but at the end of the day we all have to adapt if we understand the routes we're taking, if I know at a certain time of the day that the route I'm taking has a major gap coming up I will leave earlier to avoid that. It's a hard sell but sometimes that gets the job done as far as traveling goes.

I don't care what normal service is supposed to be, the sad fact is, we don't get normal service most of the time & for you to waste all of your time showing what might be normal service, doesn't negate the fact that every single week, there are times I & others are waiting over 30 minutes for buses that are scheduled to run every 10-12 minutes!

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3 minutes ago, strictures said:

I don't care what normal service is supposed to be, the sad fact is, we don't get normal service most of the time & for you to waste all of your time showing what might be normal service, doesn't negate the fact that every single week, there are times I & others are waiting over 30 minutes for buses that are scheduled to run every 10-12 minutes!

Well we can agree to disagree but headways change throughout the day depending on the route, 10-12 minutes isn't always the norm but I understand your frustration but I'm giving you data that can easily be accessible on the daily hour by hour minute by minute of what normal service does look like 70 to 80 percent of the time, nothing is going to be completely perfect all the time which we all have to understand. If you can add any valuable suggestions I'd love to discuss them with you on here but lets put the frustration aside and understand how transit works and what factors play a role into some days being worse than others. I get it though, I'm not going to act naïve about this because I'm sure everyone including myself have gone through "the waiting game" for a bus. I go through it every evening between 8 pm to 2 am on most weekdays and weekends but after figuring out the schedules from other garages I tend understand the trends of why things the way they are especially now more than ever since I'm an operator myself does that make it right? No but I do understand.

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16 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The difference is that on the Blue Line the short turns go directly to a middle teack, which doesn't impede the progress of the immediate follower unless the first train was delayed.  In your scenario, the short turn train still has to cross directly in front of the follower after the flyover, or cross in front of Red Line trains as they currently do.  Besides,  currently Blue Line rush trains run about 5 to 7 minutes apart during rush periods.   As a result. I haven't seen any short turning trains either at UIC Halsted or Jefferson Park.  I'm sure this is pandemic related.

Yeah an operator on Facebook said short turns are coming back soon. But In this scenerio it’s a straight move to the “middle” too only in the reverse direction to the old northbound track. Besides with only 7 trains at 11 min apart that do it it wouldn’t be as disruptive. Plus if anything running lite most likely would put it close enough to the train ahead that the operator would get a bit more than the 3 min. The slight headache might be worth looking into though considering the milage it would save. you’re saving 18 miles not going to the Dan Ryan. 18 miles not sending a train from midway to kimball AND by starting at Belmont shave off another 6-10. 5,800 miles a month saved and even with the inconvenience, not as many are going the reverse direction (which the staging move would primarily affect)

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37 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Yeah an operator on Facebook said short turns are coming back soon. But In this scenerio it’s a straight move to the “middle” too only in the reverse direction to the old northbound track. Besides with only 7 trains at 11 min apart that do it it wouldn’t be as disruptive. Plus if anything running lite most likely would put it close enough to the train ahead that the operator would get a bit more than the 3 min. The slight headache might be worth looking into though considering the milage it would save. you’re saving 18 miles not going to the Dan Ryan. 18 miles not sending a train from midway to kimball AND by starting at Belmont shave off another 6-10. 5,800 miles a month saved and even with the inconvenience, not as many are going the reverse direction (which the staging move would primarily affect)

The .main reasons for Ravenstons and Brownages is the high Brown line frequency and the limited yard space at Kimball.  If Kimball Yard was bigger,  trains from Howard And Midway wouldn't be needed and more cars could be assigned to the Brown line. 

To tweak your Red/Purple idea, why not run some of the Reds as Red Line Expresses,  originating at Howard,  running in between Purple Expresses,  then switching to Red Line tracks at Belmont.   Teains could terminate at Roosevelt and use Green Line tracks to 37th middle tracks, or build a middle track north or south of Cermak McCormick.  The other option is to continue thru service to Garfield and use 63rd middle to turn back.  The Expresses would have white background and Red letters. 

I still don't know if your Brown line idea works from the standpoint of operator breaks.  An operator starting at Kimball going downtown, then to Southport, returning back downtown and running back to Kimball.   

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7 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The .main reasons for Ravenstons and Brownages is the high Brown line frequency and the limited yard space at Kimball.  If Kimball Yard was bigger,  trains from Howard And Midway wouldn't be needed and more cars could be assigned to the Brown line. 

To tweak your Red/Purple idea, why not run some of the Reds as Red Line Expresses,  originating at Howard,  running in between Purple Expresses,  then switching to Red Line tracks at Belmont.   Teains could terminate at Roosevelt and use Green Line tracks to 37th middle tracks, or build a middle track north or south of Cermak McCormick.  The other option is to continue thru service to Garfield and use 63rd middle to turn back.  The Expresses would have white background and Red letters. 

I still don't know if your Brown line idea works from the standpoint of operator breaks.  An operator starting at Kimball going downtown, then to Southport, returning back downtown and running back to Kimball.   

Well I know the reason behind the brownages but the issue arising is, before the pandemic, those brownages started creating the same issue as the Howard Dan Ryan imbalance. Both Brown and Red Need more trains but that means even more unneeded service back to midway hence the move to “interline” red and brown extras in a way. Also since those operators wouldn’t go out to kimball or 95th there’s plenty of time saved to put in a break. BUT to tweak the plan and still keep extra trains off midway and off 95th have those trains stage at western since the report posted shows the crowding starting at Paulina. That way you can increase frequency with the same number of trains

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16 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Well I know the reason behind the brownages but the issue arising is, before the pandemic, those brownages started creating the same issue as the Howard Dan Ryan imbalance. Both Brown and Red Need more trains but that means even more unneeded service back to midway hence the move to “interline” red and brown extras in a way. Also since those operators wouldn’t go out to kimball or 95th there’s plenty of time saved to put in a break. BUT to tweak the plan and still keep extra trains off midway and off 95th have those trains stage at western since the report posted shows the crowding starting at Paulina. That way you can increase frequency with the same number of trains

It's too late now, but Wilson Yard., if it still existed, would have been a perfect place to origami short turn Brown line trains.  Hindsight is 20/29 vision. 

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17 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It's too late now, but Wilson Yard., if it still existed, would have been a perfect place to origami short turn Brown line trains.  Hindsight is 20/29 vision. 

It would also have been a good place to feed trains in for the rpm construction. Anything south of wilson will suffer the delays of the north end. They could still do that if at montrose interlocking they went to 2 tracks and let 1 and 2 go to Wilson. They could terminate a few trains then at wilson and fill in any gaps to service.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Are there any planes for more in-fill stations on the Yellow line? It seems to me like the Yellow could transition to Purple Line Shuttle status with stops at Ridge, Dodge & Crawford. Crawford could be an island platform and Ridge & Dodge would be side platforms and because it's the Yellow, they only need to be 2 or 4 cars long, and not a full length platform. Skokie & Evanston residents get expanded service, and while I don't know the exact calculations for how this would be determined, I don't see more than 1 or 2 additional trainsets needing to be added to maintain existing levels of service. I believe this would also relieve pressure on the the 93 and 215 (and maybe the 97 as well). All the stations would be located in areas with great walk-up access and bus transfers, with no houses (and possibly even additional land having to be taken).

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37 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Are there any planes for more in-fill stations on the Yellow line? It seems to me like the Yellow could transition to Purple Line Shuttle status with stops at Ridge, Dodge & Crawford. Crawford could be an island platform and Ridge & Dodge would be side platforms and because it's the Yellow, they only need to be 2 or 4 cars long, and not a full length platform. Skokie & Evanston residents get expanded service, and while I don't know the exact calculations for how this would be determined, I don't see more than 1 or 2 additional trainsets needing to be added to maintain existing levels of service. I believe this would also relieve pressure on the the 93 and 215 (and maybe the 97 as well). All the stations would be located in areas with great walk-up access and bus transfers, with no houses (and possibly even additional land having to be taken).

I thought there was a CTA proposal for a new station at Dodge.  O hadn't thought about Crawford as a possible station, though McCormick had crossed my mind before.  I still think people will opt for Purple during rush hour rather than make an additional transfer at Howard, even a free transfer. 

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12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I thought there was a CTA proposal for a new station at Dodge.  O hadn't thought about Crawford as a possible station, though McCormick had crossed my mind before.  I still think people will opt for Purple during rush hour rather than make an additional transfer at Howard, even a free transfer. 

I’ll see if I can find that Dodge proposal. Imo,  a McCormick station would have no passengers, it’s surrounded by land and/or industry on all sides and the closest residential areas at least a 10 min walk away.
 

When you say riders would still opt for the purple line, do you mean like 215 and 93 riders would just stay on the bus to Howard or Davis? Or something else? 

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5 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I’ll see if I can find that Dodge proposal. Imo,  a McCormick station would have no passengers, it’s surrounded by land and/or industry on all sides and the closest residential areas at least a 10 min walk away.
 

When you say riders would still opt for the purple line, do you mean like 215 and 93 riders would just stay on the bus to Howard or Davis? Or something else? 

I don't think 93 riders go to any line.  I was mainly thinking riders north of Oakton.  Mostly east west riders around  Dempster.  If anything. Infill stations would take riders from the 97.  O suppose some 215 riders north of Howard might opt for the Yellow bit I think most would stick with the 215. 

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5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I don't think 93 riders go to any line.  I was mainly thinking riders north of Oakton.  Mostly east west riders around  Dempster.  If anything. Infill stations would take riders from the 97.  O suppose some 215 riders north of Howard might opt for the Yellow bit I think most would stick with the 215. 

I don't ride the 97 enough to know what their pre-pandemic crowds looked like, but I imagine it's probably better for riders to be on the train as opposed to the bus.

As for the 93, riders north of Oakton/Howard are definitely going to Davis. South of that, I imagine it's either a 97 transfer, or human laziness compels them to ride to the Brown Line instead of having to take 2 buses.

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