Pulse (Milwaukee Avenue Route)

[BusHunter]

If I would have been there, I would've asked about the frequency of local service especially within the city limits on north Milwaukee. No #56A?? Only half to a quarter of the #270 locals still running within that area?? That's not good. I don't know if people realize this but this is a perfect storm scenario with a possible 3/4 cut in local service from what once ran that street. This is going to be the most controversial part of this route. The Glenbrook hospital section is not really being changed, so they are unaffected, but they won't be gaining from any new express service either. It would be somewhat smart to install a bus countdown clock at both terminus' this way riders could be informed on whether they want to switch to express service at a terminal.

[Busjack]

If I would have been there, I would've asked about the frequency of local service especially within the city limits on north Milwaukee. No #56A?? Only half to a quarter of the #270 locals still running within that area?? That's not good. I don't know if people realize this but this is a perfect storm scenario with a possible 3/4 cut in local service from what once ran that street. This is going to be the most controversial part of this route. The Glenbrook hospital section is not really being changed, so they are unaffected, but they won't be gaining from any new express service either. It would be somewhat smart to install a bus countdown clock at both terminus' this way riders could be informed on whether they want to switch to express service at a terminal.

• ​Comments are being taken at the website and become part of the official record if made by April 29, so post it there.
• However, it seemed pretty clear (including from what the staff member said, and he seemed to confirm my "wait 30 minutes" comment) that local frequency is being reduced as described. If CTA were that concerned about 56A, it wouldn't have dropped it.
• The materials show arrival time displays for both ART and 270 at the stations, so that part was covered there (see description here),

[BusHunter]

They have uploaded the presentation of Pulse from the community meeting they had on Youtube. They show a Haft/Highland st. stop at Devon, no Devon stop and no stop between Austin and Devon. That must be a bad graphic. Being that Haft is so close to Touhy, I think they should eliminate that and put an Elston stop. That strip doesn't have a stop, but neither does the Bryn Mawr area either.

 

I wonder if CTA got in a cut bus situation, would it make any sense to start making buses stop only at the main streets. They would still technically have service and it would move faster.

[juelzkellz]

Maybe CTA can extend a few of the northbound #56 buses to Devon to make up for the 270 buses being cut due to the pulse being implemented. I doesn't even have to be full time. Just extend a few of the buses during rush hour.

[Busjack]

Maybe CTA can extend a few of the northbound #56 buses to Devon to make up for the 270 buses being cut due to the pulse being implemented. I doesn't even have to be full time. Just extend a few of the buses during rush hour.

​In that Pace (note not CTA) said that the Croiwd Reduction Plan cutback only required adding only one trip (the 7:12 from Golf Mill became the 7:07 and 7:17), evidence is that CTA has no reason to be interested.

As with the issue I raised at the meeting about community transit in the corridor, the question essentially is whether there are enough riders south of Devon/Nagle perturbed about having to walk an extra 2 blocks that they are willing to wait a half hour for a CTA bus (and then communicate that desire to a deaf CTA).

In effect, you saying extend 56 instead of bringing back 56A raises the same tail wagging the dog argument I raised at the meeting about retaining 270 Glenbrook Hospital trips--screwing up the main line schedule for a low ridership extension.

[juelzkellz]

​In that Pace (note not CTA) said that the Croiwd Reduction Plan cutback only required adding only one trip (the 7:12 from Golf Mill became the 7:07 and 7:17), evidence is that CTA has no reason to be interested.

As with the issue I raised at the meeting about community transit in the corridor, the question essentially is whether there are enough riders south of Devon/Nagle perturbed about having to walk an extra 2 blocks that they are willing to wait a half hour for a CTA bus (and then communicate that desire to a deaf CTA).

In effect, you saying extend 56 instead of bringing back 56A raises the same tail wagging the dog argument I raised at the meeting about retaining 270 Glenbrook Hospital trips--screwing up the main line schedule for a low ridership extension.

​I agree with the sentiment, the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". If there's no ridership along that segment, by all means axe it.

[Busjack]

​I agree with the sentiment, the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". If there's no ridership along that segment, by all means axe it.

​In effect, CTA did so a couple of years ago. The only issue now is whether proposed Pulse stations at Central near Foster, Austin near Ardmore, and Haft near Devon, and the 270 local service Pace says will remain at least in the initial stage of Pulse are adequate south of Devon.

BTW, the video and display boards used at the meeting are on the Pulse site. Rereading the proposed schedule board, I guess I have to modify my prior statement that 270 would only be Glenbrook trips, as it says " Every 30 minutes on weekdays Every 60 minutes on weekends" and "Between the Golf Mill Shopping Center and Glenbrook Hospital Current service schedule will remain," but Glenbrook is 30 minutes only during rush. That slide also indicates that local service will be only every 60 minutes on weekends, so that even more reenforces my point on who is going to wait for a local?

[BusHunter]

​In effect, CTA did so a couple of years ago. The only issue now is whether proposed Pulse stations at Central near Foster, Austin near Ardmore, and Haft near Devon, and the 270 local service Pace says will remain at least in the initial stage of Pulse are adequate south of Devon.

BTW, the video and display boards used at the meeting are on the Pulse site. Rereading the proposed schedule board, I guess I have to modify my prior statement that 270 would only be Glenbrook trips, as it says " Every 30 minutes on weekdays Every 60 minutes on weekends" and "Between the Golf Mill Shopping Center and Glenbrook Hospital Current service schedule will remain," but Glenbrook is 30 minutes only during rush. That slide also indicates that local service will be only every 60 minutes on weekends, so that even more reenforces my point on who is going to wait for a local?

​That basically sounds like the Glenbrook schedule. So it still sounds like the Glenbrook's are the locals. #56A had some ridership, in fact they could fill buses. Probably better than what a #55A or #55N does which is about half seated ridership. Most of the Glenbrook's ridership is at the apartments along Central avenue in I guess that's eastern Des Plaines. I don't really get the double service up there with the #272, they could always serve the central apartments and axe the #270 up there. Maybe they just don't want the #272's to veer off the route, they already do it twice at Buffalo Grove and by Vernon Hills. You have to admit these buses that run straight down Milwaukee up there are much faster.

[Busjack]

​That basically sounds like the Glenbrook schedule. ...

​As I noted from my correction, it is the old mathematics problem that all Glenbrooks are locals, but not all locals are Glenbrooks.

...Most of the Glenbrook's ridership is at the apartments along Central avenue in I guess that's eastern Des Plaines. I don't really get the double service up there with the #272, they could always serve the central apartments and axe the #270 up there. Maybe they just don't want the #272's to veer off the route, they already do it twice at Buffalo Grove and by Vernon Hills. You have to admit these buses that run straight down Milwaukee up there are much faster.

​It probably is historic, in that the "East unincorporated Des Plaines" or whatever portion it is is a remnant from route 211 to Dearlove (some trips went to Wheeling).

Om 272, the diversion on Barclay Blvd. is because the office complex is there. The bus was sure not going to serve anyone on Milwaukee Ave. through that portion. Other than that, it is the North Milwaukee Corridor route.

[BusHunter]

They have an article about Pulse in the Northwest side Press (Nadig) from May 6th that states Pace wants to put all of it's city Pulse branded stops on the far sides of the intersection. At Central/Milwaukee the Foremost and Paterno Liquors is complaining about it because they think Pulse buses are going to stop and block traffic on Central, which affects their Central side driveway, but most complaints are blocking the business complaints. Bus stops for Pulse will be 60 feet long.

Now reading further through this article, they state the CTA wants to put it's Central/Milwaukee NB stop on the 5200 block of Central, which I think merits concern because that is a tight area in the first place and they will be blocking businesses. They claim the #270 local will be using these Pulse branded stops too. They entertain the possibility of closing a few local #270 stops in anticipated review of the success of Pulse 270. (I can't believe I'm hearing this) The final decision on the stops is expected by the end of the summer. On tap also is a proposed closure of a driveway of Wintrust Bank, 6336 N. Milwaukee, which I'm unfamiliar with.

Overall though the Pulse stops sound nice. Heated shelters, 15 foot tall identifier signs with an electronic message board, landscaping. They just need to get through a few prelims first.

Edited May 18, 2015 by BusHunter

[BusHunter]

The May 13th. NW side press says they will be repaving Milwaukee starting this week. Remember the protected bike lanes controversy? They will still have bike improvements and they want to make a bump out at Ardmore, Austin and NW Highway. Bump outs are the eliminated one lane only pass lanes at side street stop intersections, they also shorten crosswalks and possibly eliminate one lane of traffic, usually a park lane on the main thoroughfare. Wonder how this is going to screw with traffic or Pulse service?

For the bike rider in us, they want to extend the North Branch Trail from Devon/Caldwell to Foster/Kostner using forest preserve land. Looks like maybe it will run close to Forest Glen but it crosses the Metra North line somewhere nearby, I don't know where. That construction is starting this year. Makes me want to dust off the bicycle, I haven't rode in a few years.

[Busjack]

They have an article about Pulse in the Northwest side Press (Nadig) from May 6th that states Pace wants to put all of it's city Pulse branded stops on the far sides of the intersection. At Central/Milwaukee the Foremost and Paterno Liquors is complaining about it because they think Pulse buses are going to stop and block traffic on Central, which affects their Central side driveway, but most complaints are blocking the business complaints. Bus stops for Pulse will be 60 feet long.

Now reading further through this article, they state the CTA wants to put it's Central/Milwaukee NB stop on the 5200 block of Central, which I think merits concern because that is a tight area in the first place and they will be blocking businesses. They claim the #270 local will be using these Pulse branded stops too. They entertain the possibility of closing a few local #270 stops in anticipated review of the success of Pulse 270. (I can't believe I'm hearing this) The final decision on the stops is expected by the end of the summer. On tap also is a proposed closure of a driveway of Wintrust Bank, 6336 N. Milwaukee, which I'm unfamiliar with.

Overall though the Pulse stops sound nice. Heated shelters, 15 foot tall identifier signs with an electronic message board, landscaping. They just need to get through a few prelims first.

​As was indicated in the request for architectural services, the selected architect is supposed to figure out those issues.

As I mentioned before, at the meeting, the Pace representative said they weren't going to do anything about 270 (other than cutting it back to once a half hour) until they saw how Pulse was working.

I don't think that Nadig had access to either source, and it is always easier for a a neighborhood paper to play to the NIMBYs (that's all the Pioneer Press does). Also, I don't think, again from attending the meetings, that any final decision is going to be made by the end of the summer.

I did see someone at the meeting sitting at the table with a consultant questioning whether there was enough space for the stop at Milwaukee and Haft, but since that wasn't why I was there, didn't pursue it.

[Busjack]

The May 13th. NW side press says they will be repaving Milwaukee starting this week. Remember the protected bike lanes controversy? They will still have bike improvements and they want to make a bump out at Ardmore, Austin and NW Highway. Bump outs are the eliminated one lane only pass lanes at side street stop intersections, they also shorten crosswalks and possibly eliminate one lane of traffic, usually a park lane on the main thoroughfare. Wonder how this is going to screw with traffic or Pulse service?

For the bike rider in us, they want to extend the North Branch Trail from Devon/Caldwell to Foster/Kostner using forest preserve land. Looks like maybe it will run close to Forest Glen but it crosses the Metra North line somewhere nearby, I don't know where. That construction is starting this year. Makes me want to dust off the bicycle, I haven't rode in a few years.

​They are doing something already, since the right lane on Milwaukee has been closed from Dempster to Abt since late April, apparently for curb work. Maybe the paper was talking about in the city.

Elston is already marked with bike lanes.

[BusHunter]

​They are doing something already, since the right lane on Milwaukee has been closed from Dempster to Abt since late April, apparently for curb work. Maybe the paper was talking about in the city.

Elston is already marked with bike lanes.

​They only mean in the city limits, but they will have a bike lane on Milwaukee, it just won't be protected.

[Busjack]

I received a response to the comments I left at the Pulse meeting (apparently they could read my handwriting) from Charlotte O’Donnell, Rapid Transit Project Manager. Mostly it was expected verbiage, but on my point about whether 270 to Glenbrook should be converted to community transit, she said: "Pace is considering options for more efficient service north of Golf Mill Shopping Center, including potential changes to Route 272 and/or the existing Route 270 service to Glenbrook Hospital, but any such changes are beyond the scope of this project and would be subject to a separate public process."

On the question of the relative locations of the Milwaukee Pulse and Dempster Pulse stations at Milwaukee and Dempster, she said far side for each, with the NB Milwaukee one at Milwaukee and Elizabeth, which would put it north of Budget Rent A Car but south of Assi Plaza. Still seems like people will have to cross a busy street too often (any transfer between the two routes would require either crossing Milwaukee or the two ramps from Dempster), but it at least eliminates the problem that the restaurant parking lot precludes building a station there.

Finally, she said there would be a public meeting scheduled for Aug. 2015 to announce the locations of the Milwaukee Pulse stations.

[BusHunter]

Thought they announced the stops already.

[Busjack]

Thought they announced the stops already.

There were the renderings in the notebooks at the meeting, but a contract for the actual architectural services was still pending. For instance, I had noted in the solicitation for those services that it said that it might be necessary to locate the stop near Ballard Road (aside Assi Plaza), but this letter said further south, opposite Elizabeth St. Similarly, I had previously posted that someone questioned at the meeting whether there was enough room at Haft St. There may be a similar issue whether the Howard-Harlem station would fit next to While Castle, which technically is in Chicago, and whether plans for the Harlem Pulse enter into that. I would assume that these would be worked out before the August meeting, even though the concept of stations only at certain major cross streets isn't being altered.

[Busjack]

I received an e-mail that there is another Pulse meeting on Aug. 26 at 5:30-7:30 at the Copernicus Center. Unlike the one at the Niles Park District, not exactly on the route.

[west towns]

Seems  close enough within a half mile of the route at jeff park.  I say its close enough for government work and horseshoes.    The niles pool probably couldn't get with kiddies swimming.

[west towns]

Anyone planning to go?

[Busjack]

Anyone planning to go?

No, since I figured they said enough at Niles, plus in the e-mail I received back from the project manager. Maybe there is a little more than then about how the 410-412 restructuring dovetails with this, but then they would have done it in Niles.

Seems  close enough within a half mile of the route at jeff park.  I say its close enough for government work and horseshoes.    The niles pool probably couldn't get with kiddies swimming.

There are community meeting rooms next to the water park. The last meeting wasn't held in the pool.

[Busjack]

Only thing new in Moving Forward on the meeting at the Copernicus Center: "Using public input gathered since the first public meeting in April, Pace refined the station locations and made other minor updates to its service plan."

 

 

[Dawnlight]

By the end of the day, isn't this just introducing a route "X270" to Pace?

[MetroShadow]

By the end of the day, isn't this just introducing a route "X270" to Pace?

But with much nicer amenities.

[west towns]

According to the pulse website Its part of vision 2020 something more than express buses.