5000-series - Updates

[Busjack]

I gave you guys a plug here. Apparently, CTA is back to giving misinformation to the Trib.

[Amtrak41]

OK, The 5000's can kneel. How is that done ? Does the whole train do it at the command of the motorman ?

Seems to me the problem exists for any railcar that gets sent up the Howard Line, and all 4 types of cars in service now have been there at one time or another, albeit 3200's rather rarely. If the problem exists for them, what makes the 5000's any more incompatible with the platforms ?

[BusHunter]

I gave you guys a plug here. Apparently, CTA is back to giving misinformation to the Trib.

I really like how they said 300 #5000's are going to the blue line. Not going to arrive until next year. Sounds like some old news got passed to the public, (or the trib is recirculating info) unless they are intending to send 300 cars to Blue after they get their confidence up. If I didn't know better I'd say I was reading old news. (I'm checking the date again) Hopefully we will see cars soon or a yard of them anyway. :P

[Busjack]

I really like how they said 300 #5000's are going to the blue line. Not going to arrive until next year. Sounds like some old news got passed to the public, (or the trib is recirculating info)...

I would tend to think that, since it was said much earlier that bonds for paying for the cars had already been authorized. In fact, that was mentioned in the Feb. 2010 President's Report.

[railfan4072]

I don't understand how the unevenness of platform height rules out the 5000's ?

That's because it doesn't. The 5000s encounter the same issues at older platforms - especially North Red - that the other series of cars do. The perception that the 5000s can't be used on the Red Line because of platform/car height discrepancies is erroneous, and your confusion is understandable. Keep in mind that the 5000s have been run on the Red Line for testing (simulated weight and actual passenger loads) to determine the necessary adjustments.

The CTA has said that the 5000s' active vehicle suspension systems can lower or raise the car floor height at platforms. However, when they stop at stations where the track-to-platform height isn't in the standard range, there will still be some platform/car floor height differences.

[railfan4072]

I really like how they said 300 #5000's are going to the blue line. Not going to arrive until next year. Sounds like some old news got passed to the public, (or the trib is recirculating info) unless they are intending to send 300 cars to Blue after they get their confidence up. If I didn't know better I'd say I was reading old news. (I'm checking the date again) Hopefully we will see cars soon or a yard of them anyway.

I read the cited Trib article. Several times. And nowhere did I see it say that they were sending 300 new 5000s to the Blue Line. (did I miss that in another article??)

The Trib article did say that they were going to "...replace the 2200 Series Budd cars that were purchased in 1969-1970 and the 2400 Series Boeing-Vertol cars purchased in 1976-1978." But that that's not news to posters on this board or anyone who reads CTA press releases, board reports and CTA-related news articles. CTA has said for years that the new cars were going to replace the oldest (2200s and 2400s) cars in the fleet. What we don't seem to know yet for sure is how many of the 2600s will be replaced by new cars or whether the fleet size will increase or by how much.

130 2200-series cars and 190 2400-series cars equal 320 cars to be replaced. Since the complete order of 5000s has increased from the previously-announced 406 rail cars to 706, I expect there will be a significant number of 2600s replaced, with some increase to fleet size.

As regards rail line assignment:

The Pink Line has the production 5000s that have been accepted by the CTA, and the Pink Line is where the first 5000s will go into service.

You can expect that to happen sooner, rather than later - possibly within the next two weeks. The Pink Line has enough new cars right now for at least two 4-car trains and 54th will receive enough to fill the Pink Line's normal allotment of 44 cars before CTA starts assigning 5000s to other lines. They don't have to wait for all 44 to be delivered to start running some 5000s in revenue service. As far as the next line to get the 5000s after Pink, my expectation is that they will be assigned to Green next.

[greenstreet]

I would tend to think that, since it was said much earlier that bonds for paying for the cars had already been authorized. In fact, that was mentioned in the Feb. 2010 President's Report.

It looked to me like the Feb 2010 President's report was specifically referring to the bond authorization intended for the purchase of 406 rail cars. The Trib's error-ridden report this week referenced bond authorization for the purchase of the remaining car options in the Bombardier contract - 300 rail cars.

From Trib article:

"Approval for Bombardier to begin production is expected soon, Claypool said, with Thursday’s action by the CTA board approving the upcoming sale of up to $625 million in bonds to finance 300 rail cars, interest costs and associated charges. Financing on 406 other cars was completed several years ago."

[BusHunter]

I read the cited Trib article. Several times. And nowhere did I see it say that they were sending 300 new 5000s to the Blue Line. (did I miss that in another article??)

The Trib article did say that they were going to "...replace the 2200 Series Budd cars that were purchased in 1969-1970 and the 2400 Series Boeing-Vertol cars purchased in 1976-1978." But that that's not news to posters on this board or anyone who reads CTA press releases, board reports and CTA-related news articles. CTA has said for years that the new cars were going to replace the oldest (2200s and 2400s) cars in the fleet. What we don't seem to know yet for sure is how many of the 2600s will be replaced by new cars or whether the fleet size will increase or by how much.

130 2200-series cars and 190 2400-series cars equal 320 cars to be replaced. Since the complete order of 5000s has increased from the previously-announced 406 rail cars to 706, I expect there will be a significant number of 2600s replaced, with some increase to fleet size.

As regards rail line assignment:

The Pink Line has the production 5000s that have been accepted by the CTA, and the Pink Line is where the first 5000s will go into service.

You can expect that to happen sooner, rather than later - possibly within the next two weeks. The Pink Line has enough new cars right now for at least two 4-car trains and 54th will receive enough to fill the Pink Line's normal allotment of 44 cars before CTA starts assigning 5000s to other lines. They don't have to wait for all 44 to be delivered to start running some 5000s in revenue service. As far as the next line to get the 5000s after Pink, my expectation is that they will be assigned to Green next.

As far as the pink, they had 6 cars there since august changed cars in september when they got new ones (prototype II's) and up to last week had the same cars there, unless I'm missing something. But it is positive they are receiving more cars at Skokie shops. But remember all the extra storage capacity 54th has. They could store extra cars there if they need the room. The cars will hit service when training ends, hopefully soon.

[greenstreet]

As far as the pink, they had 6 cars there since august changed cars in september when they got new ones (prototype II's) and up to last week had the same cars there, unless I'm missing something. But it is positive they are receiving more cars at Skokie shops. But remember all the extra storage capacity 54th has. They could store extra cars there if they need the room. The cars will hit service when training ends, hopefully soon.

There are at least twelve 5000s at 54th right now - if not more. 5015-5016, 5019-5020, 5039-5040, 5043-5046, 5049-5050 The cars at 54th are production cars - there is no such designation as prototype II.

And yes, as multiple people have seen and reported, more cars are being delivered to Skokie frequently. There are at least 6 more cars at Skokie now (5001-02, 5021-5022, 5053-54), but likely more than that.

Railfan's info is correct. The cars will go into revenue service on the Pink Line. Pink already has enough cars for service and training. The cars will go into service within the next two weeks, probably next week. And the Pink Line will be the first line to be completely served by 5000 series rail cars.

[Busjack]

The Trib's error-ridden report this week ...

I guess we can agree on that much, even if not on some of the details of the errors.

The question being, since I don't think Hilkevitch made it all up, and since the above seems to demonstrate fairly well that there are a number of cars on the property--Is Claypool that much out of it? Looks like the answer is yes.

[Amtrak41]

Too soon to think about any 2200's going to IRM ?

[BusHunter]

There are at least twelve 5000s at 54th right now - if not more. 5015-5016, 5019-5020, 5039-5040, 5043-5046, 5049-5050 The cars at 54th are production cars - there is no such designation as prototype II.

And yes, as multiple people have seen and reported, more cars are being delivered to Skokie frequently. There are at least 6 more cars at Skokie now (5001-02, 5021-5022, 5053-54), but likely more than that.

Railfan's info is correct. The cars will go into revenue service on the Pink Line. Pink already has enough cars for service and training. The cars will go into service within the next two weeks, probably next week. And the Pink Line will be the first line to be completely served by 5000 series rail cars.

That's excellent news. I haven't been over at 54th in over a week. This must have all taken place last week. I've been by Skokie myself and noticed alot of #5000's seem to have disappeared. They must have went to pink. I don't know what the tribune is smoking. Why does Hilkevich say cars will go into operation next year. Then he goes on to state that the authorization to build cars has not yet been given when we are seeing cars come in left and right. Then we have the ctatattler saying cars are going to replace cars on the blue line. That sounded to me like old news. As far as prototype II's, they may not be officially called that but that's what they were referenced to if you've read news reports on the #5000's. (I can put up links) Besides a couple were delivered up to 5 wks ahead of this mass delivery that started recently. So with all these differing points I guess it would've been easy to get confused. Thanks for straightening out some of the confusion!!

[BusHunter]

I guess we can agree on that much, even if not on some of the details of the errors.

The question being, since I don't think Hilkevitch made it all up, and since the above seems to demonstrate fairly well that there are a number of cars on the property--Is Claypool that much out of it? Looks like the answer is yes.

Even worse they are making concessions on a budget that does not yet exist. I don't know when there going to find the time for any open houses to discuss any cuts.

[BusHunter]

I was over at 54th yesterday. Yes, they now have 16 cars (four 4 car sets) at least. Looks as if they gained 8 -10 cars last week alone. At that rate the line should be fully equipped with #5000's within 3 weeks. Then we will see what happens when they go to green line. Do the #2400's retire ahead of the #2200's? Or more likely will some #2400's retire and some go to blue making that line a quarter #2200's and a quarter #2400's. The green line delivery should keep them busy until at least the end of January.

[Amtrak41]

My uneducated guess is the Green 2400's go to the Red, not the Blue, so as to keep them closer to Skokie as they get older and unreliable, and not bother equipping Blue line shops with 2400 parts.

Then the Red 2600's would displace the Blue 2200's to at least bring the Blue closer to uniformity and more reliable with the 2200's gone.

Eventually, 5000's go to the Blue displacing the 2600's to the Red and Purple, and retire the 2400's, all conveniently in one place.

[toppdawg12]

It would seem logical that the object of all of the movements is to retire the 2200s and 2400s ASAP, not merely to move them around.

[BusHunter]

My uneducated guess is the Green 2400's go to the Red, not the Blue, so as to keep them closer to Skokie as they get older and unreliable, and not bother equipping Blue line shops with 2400 parts.

Then the Red 2600's would displace the Blue 2200's to at least bring the Blue closer to uniformity and more reliable with the 2200's gone.

Eventually, 5000's go to the Blue displacing the 2600's to the Red and Purple, and retire the 2400's, all conveniently in one place.

That probably does make more sense. They would probably want the #2400's around Howard yard so they could be ran with the purple line. Then they could scrap a few purple line #2400's. I think when the pink line #3100's transfer over anyway some Red line cars (the #2948 and below) will go to the blue with the #2600's on the purple line. Blue line already has 8 cars that were from the purple #2966 - #2949 group.

[Mr.cta85]

I'm reading you guys post and are all writing interesting things about the next moves once the 5000's hit revenue service on the Pink and Green Lines. I also noticed no one has mentioned the 3200 series. So my question is what do you all think happens to them, do the stay on the Brown and Orange Lines? Or what are the possibility of them going to the Blue Line along with the 2600's??

[Amtrak41]

It would seem logical that the object of all of the movements is to retire the 2200s and 2400s ASAP, not merely to move them around.

Yes, but my point was to avoid pre-scrapping the 2400's before the 2200's are all gone. My plan would temporarily degrade the Red with some 2400's, which is the lesser of 2 evils. They can just put those consists to sleep off-peak or at least on nites & weekends.

The 2200's are not only 6 years older, with more electrical issues, but have ADA issues, which makes Blue line consists rather inflexible. We all love blinker doors (as they are "so Chicago") and anything that Budd built, but from an operating perspective, they gotta go, ASAP.

[Busjack]

Well, it seems like the plugs I gave you a week ago finally paid off.

[BusHunter]

Well, it seems like the plugs I gave you a week ago finally paid off.

I'm surprised they acknowledged us. I was really wondering about those articles. I was starting to wonder if I was in the Twilight Zone. But at least they have the courage to correct a mistake in print, and that puts them higher up in my book. There's been some healthy rumors that the Pink line was going to start with the #5000's last sunday, so the startup date is really close. It's about time they started. The original prototypes were received 2 years ago. But I was also reading that Bombardier has a reputation of starting up slow with an order. This has been the case with at least another cities cars. So it may not have entirely been CTA's fault for the slowdown.

[Busjack]

I'm surprised they acknowledged us. I was really wondering about those articles. I was starting to wonder if I was in the Twilight Zone. But at least they have the courage to correct a mistake in print, and that puts them higher up in my book. ... The original prototypes were received 2 years ago. But I was also reading that Bombardier has a reputation of starting up slow with an order. This has been the case with at least another cities cars. So it may not have entirely been CTA's fault for the slowdown.

• At least the Tattler acknowledged that it was the source of the Blue Line report, even if someone else pointed out that it wasn't the Trib.
• With regard to any "slowdown," note that I said about 6 months ago that any inventory at Plattsburgh was at Bombardier's risk until such time as CTA said that the prototypes passed the test. In fact CTA has never publicly announced that. So, the reports here that a number of cars are already on the property hits me as being more surprising.

[BusHunter]

• At least the Tattler acknowledged that it was the source of the Blue Line report, even if someone else pointed out that it wasn't the Trib.
• With regard to any "slowdown," note that I said about 6 months ago that any inventory at Plattsburgh was at Bombardier's risk until such time as CTA said that the prototypes passed the test. In fact CTA has never publicly announced that. So, the reports here that a number of cars are already on the property hits me as being more surprising.

Obviously, the top people are not keeping in contact with current affairs. That may be one reason why the budget is late. When we see it then we can really see how good CTA is being managed. I just hope we don't see one sided cuts or fare increases or they may ask everyone to pay $5 or $6 or have very little service left. Having heard of all the Rahm taxes/gimmicks lately, I just don't know.

[Sam92]

Obviously, the top people are not keeping in contact with current affairs. That may be one reason why the budget is late. When we see it then we can really see how good CTA is being managed. I just hope we don't see one sided cuts or fare increases or they may ask everyone to pay $5 or $6 or have very little service left. Having heard of all the Rahm taxes/gimmicks lately, I just don't know.

Just read it, fares will remain the same along with service levels

[toppdawg12]

It makes no sense to shift the 2400s around anymore.