New seats

[artthouwill]

Metra is planning to put nonflipping seats on some of its cars soon.   Reading the comments section of the Tribune article gives the impression that most people don't like the idea.   However I found it ironic that the one line that would enjoy the new seats is the one line that won't ge any (of course it is the Metra Electric).

[Busjack]

13 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Metra is planning to put nonflipping seats on some of its cars soon.   Reading the comments section of the Tribune article gives the impression that most people don't like the idea.   However I found it ironic that the one line that would enjoy the new seats is the one line that won't ge any (of course it is the Metra Electric).

Metra Electric has (or will soon have) 186 new cars, It was clear these were only going into rehabs (the illustration was of a 7400). The illustration also indicated some facing pairs, which afford more legroom than trying to make a facing pair out of flip seats.

[Pace831]

Link to Metra's website post. According to this the majority of people who tried the new seats like them. I wouldn't take the comments in the Tribune too seriously.

When the new highliners were announced, the Electric District riders said they wanted the same amenities as riders of the diesel lines, including flip seats. Now, will anyone say it's unfair not to replace the seats on new equipment?

I personally prefer this arrangement. On the old Highliners and South Shore, I head for the backward-facing section because I expect it to be less crowded. Most people prefer to face forward. And this arrangement makes it harder for lazy people to spread out across 4 seats.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Metra Electric has (or will soon have) 186 new cars, It was clear these were only going into rehabs (the illustration was of a 7400). The illustration also indicated some facing pairs, which afford more legroom than trying to make a facing pair out of flip seats.

The seats going to the rehabbed cars is a pilot.   If successful then eventually they will be in all of the diesel cars..  

[artthouwill]

34 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Link to Metra's website post. According to this the majority of people who tried the new seats like them. I wouldn't take the comments in the Tribune too seriously.

When the new highliners were announced, the Electric District riders said they wanted the same amenities as riders of the diesel lines, including flip seats. Now, will anyone say it's unfair not to replace the seats on new equipment?

I personally prefer this arrangement. On the old Highliners and South Shore, I head for the backward-facing section because I expect it to be less crowded. Most people prefer to face forward. And this arrangement makes it harder for lazy people to spread out across 4 seats.

You said when the new Highline es were announced,  ME riders wanted the same amenities as the diesel riders.   Consider the majority African American ME ridership always felt second class compared to their majority Caucasian diesel riding peers.   The primary amenity the ME ridership wanted was a restroom.   ME riders didn't care about flipping seats.  They got them to standardize the system.   ME riders were used to fixed seating,  which I personally prefer.   The SS trains have fixed seats.   

At the time ME Highliners were announced,  nothing was ever said about new seating on any Metra line. If nothing else,  perhaps the last 50 new cars could've been outfitted also for a pilot.   Don't the opinions of ME riders matter? 

[Pace831]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

You said when the new Highline es were announced,  ME riders wanted the same amenities as the diesel riders.   Consider the majority African American ME ridership always felt second class compared to their majority Caucasian diesel riding peers.   The primary amenity the ME ridership wanted was a restroom.   ME riders didn't care about flipping seats.  They got them to standardize the system...

The seats were definitely mentioned although the restroom was the primary issue, as you noted. Metra was just willing to agree to it because of standardization, so there wasn't really much need for discussion at the time. What makes you so sure they don't care?

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

At the time ME Highliners were announced,  nothing was ever said about new seating on any Metra line. If nothing else,  perhaps the last 50 new cars could've been outfitted also for a pilot.   Don't the opinions of ME riders matter? 

Most of them remember the seating arrangement of the old Highliners, so their preferences could still be surveyed.

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

The SS trains have fixed seats.

The older single level cars do, but the newer bilevel cars have flip seats (which have higher backs and are more comfortable than Metra's).

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The seats going to the rehabbed cars is a pilot.   If successful then eventually they will be in all of the diesel cars..  

When they are rehabbed or replaced.

[trainman8119]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 3:23 PM, Busjack said:

Metra Electric has (or will soon have) 186 new cars, It was clear these were only going into rehabs (the illustration was of a 7400). The illustration also indicated some facing pairs, which afford more legroom than trying to make a facing pair out of flip seats.

The reasons, not explained of course by Mr. Orseno, is that they are installed like that for the emergency exit window. It has absolutely nothing to do with comfort or extra leg room.

[trainman8119]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 4:44 PM, artthouwill said:

You said when the new Highline es were announced,  ME riders wanted the same amenities as the diesel riders.   Consider the majority African American ME ridership always felt second class compared to their majority Caucasian diesel riding peers.   The primary amenity the ME ridership wanted was a restroom.   ME riders didn't care about flipping seats.  They got them to standardize the system.   ME riders were used to fixed seating,  which I personally prefer.   The SS trains have fixed seats.   

At the time ME Highliners were announced,  nothing was ever said about new seating on any Metra line. If nothing else,  perhaps the last 50 new cars could've been outfitted also for a pilot.   Don't the opinions of ME riders matter? 

Never. ME is the stepchild of the Metra system. Don't believe what Metra puts out there. Whether something is great or horribly bad, they will always says "that our surveys show that the people liked it". Ive had passengers tell me they are forgoing the phone app and going back to paper tickets...no one would ever admit in the ivory tower it is bad. Same with the seats..somebody on the board thought it was a good idea (or somebody's cousin is a buyer for the seating company) and whether the implementation is good or bad, the product is good or bad, you will never hear anything but everything is wonderful (see bikes and more predominately quiet cars).

[Pace831]

1 hour ago, trainman8119 said:

Never. ME is the stepchild of the Metra system. Don't believe what Metra puts out there. Whether something is great or horribly bad, they will always says "that our surveys show that the people liked it". Ive had passengers tell me they are forgoing the phone app and going back to paper tickets...no one would ever admit in the ivory tower it is bad. Same with the seats..somebody on the board thought it was a good idea (or somebody's cousin is a buyer for the seating company) and whether the implementation is good or bad, the product is good or bad, you will never hear anything but everything is wonderful (see bikes and more predominately quiet cars).

The 'surveys show that the people like it' because those surveyed are mostly the ones benefiting. From a passenger standpoint, no one is being forced to use the new amenities (seats, bike space, quiet cars, etc.). Everyone still has the option to use a paper ticket, avoid the quiet car, or sit in a car with flip seats. You've given your opinion on these issues from a trainman's perspective, but has Metra actually done anything bad in terms of passenger convenience that they would have to admit to?

[west towns]

Many other commuter agencies have fixed seats.  Amtrak Hiawatha trains to Milwaukee have fixed directional seating  and every seat gets taken on full trains.

[west towns]

On 2/1/2016 at 6:49 PM, trainman8119 said:

Never. ME is the stepchild of the Metra system. Don't believe what Metra puts out there. Whether something is great or horribly bad, they will always says "that our surveys show that the people liked it". Ive had passengers tell me they are forgoing the phone app and going back to paper tickets...no one would ever admit in the ivory tower it is bad. Same with the seats..somebody on the board thought it was a good idea (or somebody's cousin is a buyer for the seating company) and whether the implementation is good or bad, the product is good or bad, you will never hear anything but everything is wonderful (see bikes and more predominately quiet cars).

Too bad ME gets no Metra respect.  It was the pride of the old IC when they ran it like a real railroad with pride.

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, west towns said:

Too bad ME gets no Metra respect.  It was the pride of the old IC when they ran it like a real railroad with pride.

That's a pile of b,s, The IC was running early 1920s cars with rattan seats, and kept going to the Interstate Commerce Commission for fare hikes (claiming that the commuter system was draining the freight system) until the RTA assumed responsibility.

The ME had 40 year old cars until it now has the newest ones, and you are still complaining. Maybe Metra should trade in the new cars for Lexus LC500s chauffeured by Uber.

[west towns]

IC did buy new cars in early 70's before there even was an RTA

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, west towns said:

IC did buy new cars in early 70's before there even was an RTA

No, the IC didn't, they were owned by the Chicago South Suburban Mass Transit District.

Also, maybe for that reason, the green cars remained on the local routes (South Chicago, Kensington) until ~1979. I rode them.

[west towns]

Bus jack you are correct  sorry 

[Pace831]

I rode car #7454 on the RI today which has the new seats.

I didn't think these were any more or less comfortable than the flip seats. But I do like the cup holders and I don't mind riding backwards. They remind me of the seats on the South Shore single level cars, but higher off the floor which is more comfortable. The blue and gray color scheme also helps make the car look more modern. Overall I like the new seats, but will probably still opt for the old ones for now.

The cup holder has a nice secondary function.

This plaque is installed in the vestibule.

[MetroShadow]

On 3/18/2016 at 6:39 PM, Pace831 said:

I rode car #7454 on the RI today which has the new seats.

I didn't think these were any more or less comfortable than the flip seats. But I do like the cup holders and I don't mind riding backwards. They remind me of the seats on the South Shore single level cars, but higher off the floor which is more comfortable. The blue and gray color scheme also helps make the car look more modern. Overall I like the new seats, but will probably still opt for the old ones for now.

The cup holder has a nice secondary function.

This plaque is installed in the vestibule.

Definitely reminds me of the gallery cars on Caltrain...minus the fancy cup holders in front.

[2200SeriesFan]

I still haven't lucked out seeing one of those rehabbed Metra cars, with nonflip seats. Have they only done this on the Rock Island line with a few cars, or have a few cars that were rehabbed to add nonflip seats been instituted onto other Metra lines too? And thanks for the post with pics Pace831, since I kept wondering what these new nonflip seats were like.

Had kept wondering what the difference was between the traditional flip seats, and these new nonflip seats in how they felt when you sit on them. Never mind I mainly ride Metra on weekends when you can get a weekend pass, but do any of the Metra cars with the new nonflip seats sometimes make it into weekend service?

[Pace831]

1 hour ago, 2200SeriesFan said:

I still haven't lucked out seeing one of those rehabbed Metra cars, with nonflip seats. Have they only done this on the Rock Island line with a few cars, or have a few cars that were rehabbed to add nonflip seats been instituted onto other Metra lines too? And thanks for the post with pics Pace831, since I kept wondering what these new nonflip seats were like.

Had kept wondering what the difference was between the traditional flip seats, and these new nonflip seats in how they felt when you sit on them. Never mind I mainly ride Metra on weekends when you can get a weekend pass, but do any of the Metra cars with the new nonflip seats sometimes make it into weekend service?

The rehabbed cars with new seats may be found on any line where the Amerail cars normally run. See this post for car assignments, although I don't know which specific car numbers have the new seats. They are assigned just like any other Metra car which means they do run on weekends. I've rode them so far on the RI, BNSF, and MDW.

The new seats feel very firm due to their newness, but I find them only slightly more comfortable than the flip seats. Being able to lean back on the headrest and take a nap is nice, provided I don't miss my stop because of it.

[2200SeriesFan]

2 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

The rehabbed cars with new seats may be found on any line where the Amerail cars normally run. See this post for car assignments, although I don't know which specific car numbers have the new seats. They are assigned just like any other Metra car which means they do run on weekends. I've rode them so far on the RI, BNSF, and MDW.

The new seats feel very firm due to their newness, but I find them only slightly more comfortable than the flip seats. Being able to lean back on the headrest and take a nap is nice, provided I don't miss my stop because of it.

Thanks for posting a link to the assignments for Amerail railcars. So have they only added the nonflip seats to certain 7400s and 8400s railcars, for now? My guess is that most of those cars with the added nonflip seats don't make it to weekend service, where I ride Metra most often. It'd be nice to catch a random one sometime make it to weekend service with nonflip seats, though.

[Pace831]

11 minutes ago, 2200SeriesFan said:

Thanks for posting a link to the assignments for Amerail railcars. So have they only added the nonflip seats to certain 7400s and 8400s railcars, for now? My guess is that most of those cars with the added nonflip seats don't make it to weekend service, where I ride Metra most often. It'd be nice to catch a random one sometime make it to weekend service with nonflip seats, though.

The decision to change the seat type was made after the rehabs started, so the cars that were rehabbed earlier still have flip seats. You are correct that 7400s and 8400s are the only cars to have the new seats so far. A weekend train is just as likely to have a car with new seats as a weekday one, since the same sets of equipment are used every day. The only exception is, obviously, lines with no weekend service.

[2200SeriesFan]

1 minute ago, Pace831 said:

The decision to change the seat type was made after the rehabs started, so the cars that were rehabbed earlier still have flip seats. You are correct that 7400s and 8400s are the only cars to have the new seats so far. A weekend train is just as likely to have a car with new seats as a weekday one, since the same sets of equipment are used every day. The only exception is, obviously, lines with no weekend service.

Thanks for explaining it was a later decision to do, vs. some of their other decisions to do in Metra rehabs(i.e. add charging plugs next to certain seats). And good to hear the nonflip seats do have a chance of making it into weekend service, besides on weekdays. I'll pay more attention to looking for 7400s and 8400s cars, to see if I luck out and find any of those on a weekend Metra train have the nonflip seats.

[garmon757]

Alright people, so I'm doing some train spotting on 16th and Clinton (BNSF) and spotted #7458, #7465, #7471 and #7492 retorfitted with those new seats. 

[cta5658]

8 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Alright people, so I'm doing some train spotting on 16th and Clinton (BNSF) and spotted #7458, #7465, #7471 and #7492 retorfitted with those new seats. 

Anything for the Rock Island besides #7483 and #7493?