Pace Bus Moves

[Busjack]

I noted last night the oddity that there are 11 2600s in the Lake Cook fence, but no Orions. I wonder if that is a sign of things to come.

At least it explains why 6200s were showing up on some runs that usually had 2600s.

[rotjohns]

I noted last night the oddity that there are 11 2600s in the Lake Cook fence, but no Orions. I wonder if that is a sign of things to come.

At least it explains why 6200s were showing up on some runs that usually had 2600s.

Wasn't it said a while ago that 2344/2345 was at fence? Do you think they have been moved to North Shore?

[Guest]

Yesterday at Harlem/Higgins Blue Line about 7:45pm, I Saw a 40ft Nabi leaving the Blue Line turning north on the #423. I thought that was a weird sight.

[Busjack]

Wasn't it said a while ago that 2344/2345 was at fence? Do you think they have been moved to North Shore?

Again, you missed the point. The fence is part of North Shore (i.e. North Shore buses are rotated in and out of there).

My inference was that it might have signaled the end of the Orion Is, period, but that's just speculation.

Yesterday at Harlem/Higgins Blue Line about 7:45pm, I Saw a 40ft Nabi leaving the Blue Line turning north on the #423. I thought that was a weird sight.

Evidence of what I said before that North Shore 6200s were on runs that usually had 2600s.

Weird, but 6200s and 6600s have been on North Shore's share of 423 before.

[New Flyer]

30ft 2427 on the 359 this morning at 95th Red Line

[rotjohns]

I believe 2427 is a 35 footer.

It is a 35 footer and I know there are a few of them at south. But 2427 seems like an odd ball to be at south.

[rotjohns]

Is it possible we could see some more bus shuffling? Looking at the passenger notices, it looks like some times at West and in Joliet are being eliminated due to low ridership. Also, 397 is getting cut. BTW, what's up with all the UPS cutting in recent months? That's 3 in the last year. Has work disappeared at that facility resulting in layoffs, which could explain the low ridership?

[MetroShadow]

Is it possible we could see some more bus shuffling? Looking at the passenger notices, it looks like some times at West and in Joliet are being eliminated due to low ridership. Also, 397 is getting cut. BTW, what's up with all the UPS cutting in recent months? That's 3 in the last year. Has work disappeared at that facility resulting in layoffs, which could explain the low ridership?

Low ridership overall (the economy might have something to do with it), and UPS decided to cut the subsidy for the route in part.

[Busjack]

Is it possible we could see some more bus shuffling? Looking at the passenger notices, it looks like some times at West and in Joliet are being eliminated due to low ridership. Also, 397 is getting cut. BTW, what's up with all the UPS cutting in recent months? That's 3 in the last year. Has work disappeared at that facility resulting in layoffs, which could explain the low ridership?

Actually, it is a heck of a lot more than 3. It might be more than a year, but 391, 393, 394, 397, 556, and 891 are gone. You can add to that CTA 168. Some went to UPS in Addison and Palatine. The one 422 run to Northbrook is still running.

As indicated in the Pace minutes, UPS at one time thought it had to recruit from all over the area; apparently it no longer needs the help or is no longer willing to subsidize partially full buses to get there. I never understood their business model of having part timers to work a 3 a.m. to 8 a.m shift, and then paying to transport them there, but that's what it was.

Since you came in 2000, you weren't around when there were numerous subscription routes to Sears, and they are now all gone. The worm of the economy turns.

With regard to run cuts, equipment is freed only if they are during the rush hour. I suppose that one bus was freed in Joliet, maybe 1 from 307 (I guess people aren't riding to Triton from Harlem).* All the rest of them (especially West) either are weekend, or trips start a couple of minutes earlier, and thus have no impact on the number of buses needed. It looks like Pace used its analytics to deal with delays in the West division, not much more.

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*There was a time when 307 was cut back to Elmwood Park because River Grove didn't want them to idle at Fullerton and Thatcher, then reinstated when Triton was proposed as the terminal. Apparently we are back to that.

[rotjohns]

I do remember some subscription routes to Sears, like the 555 and 558. Now, only the 610 goes there and I'm wondering how ridership is with that route too. And I didn't believe there would be much bus shuffling with these changes, but it looks like Pace decided to take a long look at ridership and eliminate times that are unprofitable. Triton should probably just stay with 318 and 331, that should be enough.

[Busjack]

I do remember some subscription routes to Sears, like the 555 and 558. Now, only the 610 goes there and I'm wondering how ridership is with that route too. And I didn't believe there would be much bus shuffling with these changes, but it looks like Pace decided to take a long look at ridership and eliminate times that are unprofitable. Triton should probably just stay with 318 and 331, that should be enough.

558 was to South Barrington. 555 theoretically was a regular River division route, interlined with 554.

I was referring to all the 1000 series routes, which at one time went from many Sears stores (or more likely vacant Sears locations, like at 79th and Kimbark) to Prairie Stone, the last being 1012 from 95th. There were also subscription routes to other employers in Warrenville and Lincolnshire, having numbers up to 1024. Pretty much, you had to pay a special monthly fare to ride. Those are all gone. (Note twy's post describing some of them).

Initially, the Sears ones were inaugurated to keep Sears from moving from Sears Tower to out of state, thinking that it would preserve some Illinois jobs if they went to Hoffman Estates. Of course, considering the condition SHLD is now in, I assume that the number of those jobs has also been reduced.

[rotjohns]

558 was to South Barrington. 555 theoretically was a regular River division route, interlined with 554.

I was referring to all the 1000 series routes, which at one time went from many Sears stores (or more likely vacant Sears locations, like at 79th and Kimbark) to Prairie Stone, the last being 1012 from 95th. There were also subscription routes to other employers in Warrenville and Lincolnshire, having numbers up to 1024. Pretty much, you had to pay a special monthly fare to ride. Those are all gone. (Note twy's post describing some of them).

Initially, the Sears ones were inaugurated to keep Sears from moving from Sears Tower to out of state, thinking that it would preserve some Illinois jobs if they went to Hoffman Estates. Of course, considering the condition SHLD is now in, I assume that the number of those jobs has also been reduced.

Oh yeah, I do know about the 1000s routes. I couldn't remember all of them, but I knew at least 2-3 of them went up there and one went to Warrenville. One was from 95/Ryan, one was somewhere on the north side of Chicago.

[MetroShadow]

Now, only the 610 goes there and I'm wondering how ridership is with that route too.

Its stable, and definitely needs a 40-footer. As a matter of fact, during the summer, there were standing room only (in part of the interns).

They had to change the scheduling a couple of years back to allow for an extra round trip or two (since it came out of Northwest).

[rotjohns]

Its stable, and definitely needs a 40-footer. As a matter of fact, during the summer, there were standing room only (in part of the interns).

They had to change the scheduling a couple of years back to allow for an extra round trip or two (since it came out of Northwest).

If that's the case, no question we'll see Orion VIs take over those routes in a matter of weeks if not sooner.

[Busjack]

To throw another on the fire, I haven't seen 2665 and 2666 on WebWatch nor physically in the NW area for a while. While there are obviously voids and ghost buses (to use BusExpert's term), is there a chance that they turned up in Naperville?

[rotjohns]

To throw another on the fire, I haven't seen 2665 and 2666 on WebWatch nor physically in the NW area for a while. While there are obviously voids and ghost buses (to use BusExpert's term), is there a chance that they turned up in Naperville?

That could be possible. I'll check it out next week, it would make sense. They just seemed so out of place in the NW burbs.

[twyztdmynd]

To throw another on the fire, I haven't seen 2665 and 2666 on WebWatch nor physically in the NW area for a while. While there are obviously voids and ghost buses (to use BusExpert's term), is there a chance that they turned up in Naperville?

Quite possibly on Deerfield/LakeCook Shuttle bugs... I'll check out next week.

[Busjack]

Quite possibly on Deerfield/LakeCook Shuttle bugs... I'll check out next week.

I know that the latter isn't the case, at least of last weekend, based on both Webwatch and having personally checked the cage.

Update: Checked it out tonight; no change.

[rotjohns]

Checking Webwatch this morning, SW has unloaded their 6052-6056 buses and sent them back to West, as all of them are on West routes. The only bus still at SW is 6057. Also, 6218 has been moved from West to South. It's on the 350 right now as I speak. That's somewhat of a surprise. Must've had to replace a dead bus, most likely a 2400 series.

[Busjack]

It looks like NW Eldos other than what they just got (2767-2792) are shipping out and showing up elsewhere, mostly first at NS. 2707 on 421, which is definitely a NS route, and 2635 on 423 on a run I know from frequent physical sightings is a NS run on a mixed route. IIRC, I saw 2630 on 422 this morning on WebWatch on a run that should have been NS.

I am so confused, especially with 2704 and 2706 popping up and then not. :o

[rotjohns]

It looks like NW Eldos other than what they just got (2767-2792) are shipping out and showing up elsewhere, mostly first at NS. 2707 on 421, which is definitely a NS route, and 2635 on 423 on a run I know from frequent physical sightings is a NS run on a mixed route. IIRC, I saw 2630 on 422 this morning on WebWatch on a run that should have been NS.

I am so confused, especially with 2704 and 2706 popping up and then not.

Probably for the same reasons why they sent 2665 and 2666 to Naperville. They want to keep the El Dorados consistent with each other. Funny to think that considering the Orion VIs are all over the place from 6000-6041, then 6063-6067, then 6114-6161. NS probably doesn't care as long as they have buses to replace the 93 Orions...lol. And the more I think about it, unless they are in the unlikely spot of Elgin where the rest of the 2700s are, they probably got shipped to NS and are awaiting programming before sending them out. Only other place they could go would be the shuttle bugs.

[Busjack]

... they probably got shipped to NS and are awaiting programming before sending them out. Only other place they could go would be the shuttle bugs.

You may have stumbled onto something here.

I just returned from an errand, and encountered 2635 and 2790 on 210. Since that is usually one NS and one NW, the inference can be made that 2635 was the NS one, and since most have shown up on shared routes (210, 422, 423), NS is only using them, for the moment, where they don't have to be reprogrammed. Probably when they are, that will be the end of most Orions.

[Busjack]

... It isn't necessarily that Pace doesn't have enough 40 ft buses, it is a matter of WHERE they are using them. Pace route 320 will NEVER need a 40 ft bus, but it always has one. Same for Rt 319 and 305. Yet those 35ft NABIs wind up on the most crowded routes...

One also has to take into account that 320 is interlined with 315 (as demonstrated that when the Saturday 320 was canceled, 315 got a new schedule). The rest is an issue of what the garage supervisor lets a driver take, as opposed to how the buses are allocated among garages.

I had previously commented that the Eldos showed up on routes we expected. However, in the divisions, there don't seem to be any exclusive Eldo routes, because of interlines and school runs. Even after West was theoretically all accessible, a couple of their timetables said that school runs were not (presumably run with 8900s).

[rotjohns]

One also has to take into account that 320 is interlined with 315 (as demonstrated that when the Saturday 320 was canceled, 315 got a new schedule). The rest is an issue of what the garage supervisor lets a driver take, as opposed to how the buses are allocated among garages.

I had previously commented that the Eldos showed up on routes we expected. However, in the divisions, there don't seem to be any exclusive Eldo routes, because of interlines and school runs. Even after West was theoretically all accessible, a couple of their timetables said that school runs were not (presumably run with 8900s).

If you notice at West, during the non-peak hours, you'll see a bunch of 6600s out everywhere. So even though you may see 6600s on the heavier routes, it's usually around times where it would seem reasonable. Case in point, the other day I saw 6618 on route 322 at Oak Brook heading towards the Pink Line, it had about 10 passengers on it. But about 3 weeks ago, I saw on route 319 a 40-foot Nabi with 1 passenger in Schiller Park and this route has been known to have Eldos 2665 and 2666. Now the school runs, I wouldn't think you'd put a 35-foot bus on those runs, especially for both Proviso schools.

[Busjack]

El Dorado #2664 will be heading to 1st Student/Naperville soon.

Now they are starting to bite into North Shore* (and not replacing Orions in the process). Is there any real plan for resolving all the bus shuffling?

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*North Shore's original allocation, untouched to this point, being 2650-2664.