Amtrak Tacoma,WA derailment

[jtrosario]

First day of amtrak service on this segment AND at this time of morning(1.5 hours before previous first train out) Serious derailment, fall looks similar to CTA derailment/fall at Lake & Wabash decades ago:

Live video coverage here: (Live Link inactive as of evening 12/18/17)

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/watch-live-train-derailment-in-seattle-area-1118852675847

One minute update pictures(when traffic cam faces accident scene):

https://www.wsdot.com/Traffic/Cameras/CameraDirection.aspx?city=Tacoma&camId=9279

EDIT: The line goes from miles of straightaway with a P30 left curve immediately before this bridge. Eyewitness on news states saw the train leave tracks at high speed on the curve.

[ThirdRailVision]

Any speculations on how this arrangement could've occurred? I'm baffled at how the engine is relatively unscathed yet there are train cars all the way down on the highway. 

 

**EDIT**: Unless the engine was being used to push the cars instead of pull them...?

[jtrosario]

The car up top by the red fire trucks(previous post picture) is a new Siemens engine(lead engine probably pulling), two passengers cars hit the front and center of the orange semi, two more passenger cars are on the ground on the far side(one not in picture, one to the right of the blue rear engine). Seems like passengers cars 5 and 6 are diagonal upright on the bridge. Passenger car 7 is upside down under the bridge upside down. Passenger cars  7  8 and  8  9 are hanging off the bridge onto the interstate, before what might be a baggage car and then the blue rear engine. The live news feed just showed a drone footage of the other cars not seen here. All but one two were upright. Also, to me it looks like that orange semi truck prevented two passenger cars from plowing into other vehicular traffic. The semi truck's engine crushed and hit on right, driver's seat OK and looks like semi truck driver was able to walk away after getting directly hit up front and again on the trailer.

[jtrosario]

If the passenger car hanging off the bridge also hit the orange semi-truck, then the orange DOUBLE TRAILER semi-truck may have been hit by 3 separate Amtrak passenger cars. Guessing Car numbers 1, 2, and 7.

[jtrosario]

Guessing that the upside down Amtrak passenger car is Car #7 with Car #8 on top. From this viewpoint passenger Car #2 is behind #7, with one end of Car #1 sticking up behind Car #2 near the orange double trailer semi-truck.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, jtrosario said:

First day of amtrak service on this segment. at this time of morning(1.5 hours before previous first train out) Serious derailment, fall looks similar to CTA derailment/fall at Lake & Wabash decades ago:

Live video coverage here:

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/watch-live-train-derailment-in-seattle-area-1118852675847

 

Your link got superseded. This one seems more current. The best I can tell from this, it was an inauguration of "high speed" service and apparently one of the passenger cars went off the new track, sending others off the overpass. What doesn't seem obvious at the moment is that the rear cars apparently got uncoupled and went down an embankment on the other side of the tracks.

If there is any analogy, it seems like the coal train that telescoped and went off the Shermer Road bridge in  Glenview or Northbrook.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

What doesn't seem obvious at the moment is that the rear cars apparently got uncoupled and went down an embankment on the other side of the tracks.

ABC just had a simulation that while cars 3 and 4 went over the edge, the ones behind them just kept going.

[jtrosario]

Apparently, this was/is the first revenue run of a new earlier run AND a new segment of track for Amtrak today:

 

 

Original Map Below:  (from https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Rail/PNWRC_PtDefiance/Map.htm )

   

 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

The project is called the Point Defiance Bypass, and it was intended to shave some good time off the Amtrak Cascades route down to Portland. The Amtrak Cascades service is unique because the trains aren't conventional Amfleets and Horizon coaches. It uses special cars made by Talgo, and each car has it's own axle and wheels at one end. The car next to it provides the axle and wheels at the other end of the car. Whether the shared wheel arrangement played a role in the severity of the derailment is yet to be seen. There are no two-axle bogies, but the cars can be hooked up to any locomotives in Amtrak's fleet. Historically the trains had an F59PHI from a dedicated Cascades fleet pool at one end and an F40PH cabbage at the other, but then they got new trainsets for the service with cab cars built into the last car. Now it seems that they have locomotives on both ends.

It was announced later on that the Genesis was at the rear of the train, apparently undamaged, and that the Charger was in the front.

A frequent visitor to the Seattle-Tacoma area, I have driven under that bridge countless times. Interstate 5 is already heavily congested in that area most of the time due to Joint Base Lewis-McChord.

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, jtrosario said:

Apparently, this was/is the first revenue run of a new earlier run AND a new segment of track for Amtrak today:

 

 

Original Map Below:  (from https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Rail/PNWRC_PtDefiance/Map.htm )

   

 

Sun-Times article confirms what the map implies-that stretch of track was not upgraded, and the train was running at 80 mph in a 30 mph zone, and no positive train control.

[jajuan]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Sun-Times article confirms what the map implies-that stretch of track was not upgraded, and the train was running at 80 mph in a 30 mph zone, and no positive train control.

It brings up the question now of why there was no positive train control along that stretch after they just recently completed this project to speed up the travel times of the Amtrak service. 

[Busjack]

4 minutes ago, jajuan said:

It brings up the question now of why there was no positive train control along that stretch after they just recently completed this project to speed up the travel times of the Amtrak service. 

...or why the project was declared done with only half the track upgraded.

[jajuan]

6 minutes ago, Busjack said:

...or why the project was declared done with only half the track upgraded.

True. So now they've got to spend more money on repairs as well as contend with disruption of service that normally comes with accident clean up, evidence collection for investigation, and the resulting infrastructure repairs. That's not counting the traffic disruptions and service disruptions to other transportation services as yesterday Sound Transit had been warning its passengers to expect longer commute times on its express bus routes that operate on that stretch of I-5 while simultaneously assuring them that buses would still make all normal stops. 

[rvwnsd]

7 hours ago, jajuan said:

It brings up the question now of why there was no positive train control along that stretch after they just recently completed this project to speed up the travel times of the Amtrak service. 

NPR reported this evening that positive train control was installed but was still undergoing testing. Based on news accounts, the train was going 80 MPH despite a 30 MPH speed limit. It seems to me that the line should never have opened without operable positive train control when the speed limit decreased 50 MPH in order to navigate around a curve. 

[andrethebusman]

Recent reports state that straightening that one curve would have cost $400 mil, more than the entire rest of the project together as it would have involved moving I5 to a new alignment as well as a major new rail bridge. Deemed not cost-effective.

[Pace831]

NTSB press release on interviews with train crew.

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, Pace831 said:

NTSB press release on interviews with train crew.

The question there is how much engineers are dependent on the mileposts, as opposed to qualifying for the route.It's sort of like I know that I-80/94 is Exit 258 on I-65, but I'm not navigating from Exit 129 on that basis.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

The question there is how much engineers are dependent on the mileposts, as opposed to qualifying for the route.It's sort of like I know that I-80/94 is Exit 258 on I-65, but I'm not navigating from Exit 129 on that basis.

Mileposts can be a great tool for navigating routes, but I think a veteran should also have a feel for about how far he has traveled.   If it took 45 seconds from milepost 15 to 16 and the same from 16 to 17, after a minute, instinct should  kick in to slow down even if he didn't see  milepost 18.  Did he see milepost 19?  Apparently not.  How did he miss 2 mile markers?

[Busjack]

4 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Mileposts can be a great tool for navigating routes, but I think a veteran should also have a feel for about how far he has traveled.   If it took 45 seconds from milepost 15 to 16 and the same from 16 to 17, after a minute, instinct should  kick in to slow down even if he didn't see  milepost 18.  Did he see milepost 19?  Apparently not.  How did he miss 2 mile markers?

My qualified comment was based on:

In the five weeks preceding the derailment, the engineer had qualified on the Point Defiance Bypass section of track following the completion of seven to 10 observational trips in the locomotive as well as three trips operating the equipment, two northbound and one southbound.

Later on, he seems disoriented:

The engineer said that he saw mileposts 16 and 17 but didn’t recall seeing milepost 18 or the 30 mph advance speed sign, which was posted two miles ahead of the speed-restricted curve. 

The engineer said that he did see the wayside signal at milepost 19.8 (at the accident curve) but mistook it for another signal, which was north of the curve.

While the above indicates that he recalled MP 16 and 17, the article also refers to MP 15.5.If it is like here, with some railroads having mile markers every half mile, he missed more than 2.

[andrethebusman]

You have to wonder if he was running in what a friend used to call "dream mode" - where you are awake, but your mind is a million miles away and you see things, but the brain refuses to accept the messages the optic nerve is sending. The news report says the second man heard the engineer mumble something just before the wreck. Probably something like "oh, shit!". One also has to wonder if the trainee wasn't paying any attention either, and both were just sitting there dead to the world.