2020 Pace Budget

[Pace831]

6 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Photo of the budget info that I saw in 6783 last weekend.

The time of the Chicago West hearing has been changed to 2:30-4:30 PM.

[NewFlyerMCI]

8 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The time of the Chicago West hearing has been changed to 2:30-4:30 PM.

Some of these destinations seem very in the city for the services being cut?

[Tcmetro]

The public hearings are for the entire budget, in addition to the service cuts. 

[MetroShadow]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Some of these destinations seem very in the city for the services being cut?

Since Pace covers all six counties and the City, it’s customary and mandatory that public hearings be held in the city as part of that process. 

[Pace831]

Here’s a Streetsblog article discussing the main points of the Pace budget. I must retract my comment that no one opposes elimination of route 806.

It also mentions the school trips on 540 aren’t a big portion of that route’s ridership.

[rotjohns]

On 10/26/2019 at 1:05 PM, Pace831 said:

Here’s a Streetsblog article discussing the main points of the Pace budget. I must retract my comment that no one opposes elimination of route 806.

It also mentions the school trips on 540 aren’t a big portion of that route’s ridership.

Since my car has been down for the last week, I've been riding the 559 Northbound transferring to the 530 Northbound.  Talking to the 559 bus driver today, he stated that his ridership is extremely low and isn't surprised they're cutting it back on weekends and think complete elimination may be next.  I'm one of 2 passengers on the route I've been taking daily.  The 530 isn't overly hot full of passengers, on average 5-6 from Fox Valley Mall area to downtown Naperville.

Interesting note, I'm told the 534 was once on the chopping block, but a slew of people came out to the hearing protesting so they left it alone and it's a feeder route.  And yes, I see the Naperville feeder routes still do quite well, even the Naperville Park and Rides from Route 59.  Not shocked 186 and 187 are on the chopping block, most of the time when it's past 6:30pm, people are being picked up or using rideshare if they're not driving.  Uber/Lyft drivers line up along the stations when those trains show up.   

[Pace831]

The Pace board approved the 2020 budget today. Due to opposition, the proposed service cuts will not be part of the budget. This doesn't mean they won't occur; they may be evaluated on an individual basis sometime in 2020.

You can hear all the details in the board meeting video.

The board also approved intergovernmental agreements with the RTA and Cook County for potential new overnight rideshare services in Harvey and the O'Hare South Cargo Area.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

The Pace board approved the 2020 budget today. Due to opposition, the proposed service cuts will not be part of the budget. This doesn't mean they won't occur; they may be evaluated on an individual basis sometime in 2020.

You can hear all the details in the board meeting video.

The board also approved intergovernmental agreements with the RTA and Cook County for potential new overnight rideshare services in Harvey and the O'Hare South Cargo Area.

Can you explain on this last part? Is this intended to replace and/or supplement 332 and 361 service?

[Pace831]

56 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Can you explain on this last part? Is this intended to replace and/or supplement 332 and 361 service?

It’s explained in the video. Basically, Pace would partner with a rideshare company to provide last mile connections during overnight hours when fixed route service would be excessive. The O’Hare one sounds like it will serve the same area as 332 by getting cargo workers to Rosemont. A similar concept would be implemented around the Harvey TC. They cited feedback from riders who said that although 352 runs all night, it only gets them to the TC and not their ultimate destination. 361 won’t be part of it, as that route serves a facility with defined shift change times.

[BusHunter]

6 hours ago, Pace831 said:

It’s explained in the video. Basically, Pace would partner with a rideshare company to provide last mile connections during overnight hours when fixed route service would be excessive. The O’Hare one sounds like it will serve the same area as 332 by getting cargo workers to Rosemont. A similar concept would be implemented around the Harvey TC. They cited feedback from riders who said that although 352 runs all night, it only gets them to the TC and not their ultimate destination. 361 won’t be part of it, as that route serves a facility with defined shift change times.

Really!! Who's (uber drivers) gonna work suburbia for 2.25 a ride. Most of us work downtown. Theres no surges in suburbia. Only if we get taken out there would we be out there. Then we are on the xway headed downtown. Uber and lyft have a rideshare tax proposal to fight from mayor lightfoot. Dont know how that will play into it. I basically make the same driving a bus. Only downside is you are not getting paid out the door of your house. 

They could always partner up with a scooter company lol!! ?

[Pace831]

2 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Really!! Who's (uber drivers) gonna work suburbia for 2.25 a ride. Most of us work downtown. Theres no surges in suburbia. Only if we get taken out there would we be out there. Then we are on the xway headed downtown. Uber and lyft have a rideshare tax proposal to fight from mayor lightfoot. Dont know how that will play into it. I basically make the same driving a bus. Only downside is you are not getting paid out the door of your house. 

They could always partner up with a scooter company lol!! ?

One can assume there would be a subsidy involved, otherwise Pace and the RTA wouldn't need to get involved at all. The rideshare partner would probably need to designate drivers and vehicles who are dedicated to these services. This would ensure drivers would be available when needed, and that the vehicles are ADA accessible (which was a concern raised at the meeting).

What happens currently if someone tries to summon Uber in Harvey at 2 AM? Do they have to wait for someone to deadhead from downtown, or are they just out of luck if there are no drivers in the area?

[BusHunter]

Most likely have to wait. I did uber the morning of my UPS shuttle. Alot of the calls have crazy pickup times like I saw a 20 minute pickup. Is that worth it? But theres always lyft. Lyfts calls were shorter like 8 minutes. What's cool about uber is if the pickup is long you get paid a certain rate after 4 or 5 minutes of driving to a call. You can make good money roads are clear. If you got some xway runs you are golden. There are ada ubers out here already. 

[andrethebusman]

Now there is Uber Freight - basically Uber acting as  freight broker, connecting loads with independent truckers. We are seeing Uber getting into what is essentially jitney operation, routes run by individual independent operators with different operators from day to day. Chaotic to be sure, but I suppose the way of the future. Transportation gig work.

[artthouwill]

On 11/14/2019 at 8:37 AM, BusHunter said:

Most likely have to wait. I did uber the morning of my UPS shuttle. Alot of the calls have crazy pickup times like I saw a 20 minute pickup. Is that worth it? But theres always lyft. Lyfts calls were shorter like 8 minutes. What's cool about uber is if the pickup is long you get paid a certain rate after 4 or 5 minutes of driving to a call. You can make good money roads are clear. If you got some xway runs you are golden. There are ada ubers out here already. 

The sheer number of rideshare drivers make it easy to get a ride, even at 2a.m. in Harvey.  There are drivers who live out that way and would be glad to take some fares on their way home or to start their day.  Depending on the distance,  rides would be more than $2,25, and the opportunity exists for pool rides.  If the amount of drivers is very small, the rides will pay the driver more.  

[artthouwill]

50 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Now there is Uber Freight - basically Uber acting as  freight broker, connecting loads with independent truckers. We are seeing Uber getting into what is essentially jitney operation, routes run by individual independent operators with different operators from day to day. Chaotic to be sure, but I suppose the way of the future. Transportation gig work.

The transportation industry is already a low profit margin industry,  and this could make it worse.   Uber will start paying drivers well  until it gets enough drivers to start paying less.  Independent truckers will have tough choices to make, especially with their lease payments for their trucks.  The question is whether Uber can deny the freight industry like it has rideshare. 

[BusHunter]

56 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The transportation industry is already a low profit margin industry,  and this could make it worse.   Uber will start paying drivers well  until it gets enough drivers to start paying less.  Independent truckers will have tough choices to make, especially with their lease payments for their trucks.  The question is whether Uber can deny the freight industry like it has rideshare. 

Theres tons of freight out here. Uber has no impact. I would say amazon affected more jobs with there own delivery services ups got killed this Christmas. There an amazon truck everywhere. Thats eventually going to be what happens to rideshare the manufacturers will take over with self driving vehicles under there own brand name. 

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Theres tons of freight out here. Uber has no impact. I would say amazon affected more jobs with there own delivery services ups got killed this Christmas. There an amazon truck everywhere. Thats eventually going to be what happens to rideshare the manufacturers will take over with self driving vehicles under there own brand name. 

Amazon is sort of different.   There's a lot of trucking companies.   Some employ their own drives, some contract with independent owner/operators,  and some do both.  Uber Freight could affect the independent driving market.  There's already a shortage of truck drivers.  I think Uber will get some business,  but it won't be to the scale of its rideshare. 

[Pace831]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Amazon is sort of different.   There's a lot of trucking companies.   Some employ their own drives, some contract with independent owner/operators,  and some do both.  Uber Freight could affect the independent driving market.  There's already a shortage of truck drivers.  I think Uber will get some business,  but it won't be to the scale of its rideshare. 

Amazon doesn't employ its own drivers, although there was speculation recently that they may begin doing so. Their truckload freight is hauled by contractors in Amazon-owned trailers. The drivers of the Amazon delivery vans are independent contractors as well, although they have had some seasonal employee drivers for the past two years.

The "truck driver shortage" is often misrepresented by popular media. Companies can find enough people to "put butts in the seats", so to speak, but the shortage is of hires who will provide a positive return on investment. As you noted, trucking is a commodity service with tiny profit margins to begin with. A lot of money is spent on recruiting, hiring, and training, but many new hires will quit after a short time, drive unsafely, work inefficiently, et cetera. Workers would be more profitable if hiring and training standards were increased, but employers cannot afford to do this without reducing the applicant pool too much. This feedback loop is commonly simplified as the "driver shortage", and I don't think Uber will necessarily change this. If anything, they will make it harder for other companies to compete and the driver experience will get worse.

[andrethebusman]

On 3/11/2020 at 9:04 PM, Pace831 said:

Amazon doesn't employ its own drivers, although there was speculation recently that they may begin doing so. Their truckload freight is hauled by contractors in Amazon-owned trailers. The drivers of the Amazon delivery vans are independent contractors as well, although they have had some seasonal employee drivers for the past two years.

The "truck driver shortage" is often misrepresented by popular media. Companies can find enough people to "put butts in the seats", so to speak, but the shortage is of hires who will provide a positive return on investment. As you noted, trucking is a commodity service with tiny profit margins to begin with. A lot of money is spent on recruiting, hiring, and training, but many new hires will quit after a short time, drive unsafely, work inefficiently, et cetera. Workers would be more profitable if hiring and training standards were increased, but employers cannot afford to do this without reducing the applicant pool too much. This feedback loop is commonly simplified as the "driver shortage", and I don't think Uber will necessarily change this. If anything, they will make it harder for other companies to compete and the driver experience will get worse.

True - you increase standards too much and end up short of employees. ATC Nevada in Las Vegas fell into this trap early 2000's, got so picky and so quick to fire drivers they ended up with almost a 100% a year turnover. By 2006 had run thru the local "victim pool", and despite weekly new hire classes and constant advertising, could not get driver count much above 400, where 700 was needed to make schedule. Result was endless mandatory overtime, which just caused burnout and low morale, which contributed to the high turnover. From what I gather this situation persisted until Keolis and MV took over with new, more lenient, management.