7000-series - Delivery & Updates

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, Mr.cta85 said:

So if Bombarider gets the contract "again" to build the 7000 series, my question is will they be able to train with the 5000's even after cta changed the order saying the 7000's didn't have to be compatable? Im thinking if Bombarider gets the contract might as make make them compatable right??

It might, but then the question would be what Bombardier changed in response to the second spec. to make it more price competitive compared to the first solicitation, which was thrown out.

[BusHunter]

50 minutes ago, Busjack said:

It might, but then the question would be what Bombardier changed in response to the second spec. to make it more price competitive compared to the first solicitation that was thrown out.

I'd be surprised if Bombardier got this order. CTA has been doing backflips in an attempt to stop this, even sending out another bid. If Bombardier did get the contract, it would essentially be a pie in the face to the organizers of the 2nd bid. Plus CSR has stated they will build on the south side a manufacturing facility. This is jobs folks and you can bet your buster browns that Rahm will be out there passing out cigars saying "I did this" He needs to do something in the black community and this is probably it. Now if I was Bombardier, I would come forward and offer the same thing. Then we have a real race going.

[Pink Jazz]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

I'd be surprised if Bombardier got this order. CTA has been doing backflips in an attempt to stop this, even sending out another bid. If Bombardier did get the contract, it would essentially be a pie in the face to the organizers of the 2nd bid. Plus CSR has stated they will build on the south side a manufacturing facility. This is jobs folks and you can bet your buster browns that Rahm will be out there passing out cigars saying "I did this" He needs to do something in the black community and this is probably it. Now if I was Bombardier, I would come forward and offer the same thing. Then we have a real race going.

If CTA awards the contract to CSR, I would not be surprised to see Bombardier file a formal protest and a lawsuit to overturn the award, considering that CTA is knowingly using a loophole to circumvent fair FTA procurement rules, which prohibits locking out specific vendors.  And knowing that the FTA has gotten more strict about enforcing its rules in recent years (see their ruling for out-of-state agencies purchasing from the Minnesota CPV umbrella contract without procurement), I except they will rule in favor of Bombardier. CTA better not make the foolish decision to award the contract to CSR, otherwise that will lead to more delays for the 7000-series due to the protest and litigation.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Pink Jazz said:

If CTA awards the contract to CSR, I would not be surprised to see Bombardier file a formal protest and a lawsuit to overturn the award, considering that CTA is knowingly using a loophole to circumvent fair FTA procurement rules, which prohibits locking out specific vendors. 

Again you are making allegations for which you have no personal evidence to back.

Someone may protest (this Boston article says everyone protested) but CTA DID NOT DISQUALIFY BOMBARDIER. It rejected all bids (which it had the legal right to do) and issued a new solicitation.

I'm really shocked by all the defamation on this topic today.

[Juniorz]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

First you misread the article. It was CSR that promised the facility, according to Crain's: "but in its brochure CSR promises to spend $40 million to build a 160-employee manufacturing facility on the Southeast Side." Rahm needs the jobs.

Maybe you had it confused with the no bid deal that got derailed for Bombardier to rebuild the 3200s into AC cars at the 63rd Lower Yard.

Aside from the above blown deal, Rahm has no investment in Bombardier cars. The contract was let in 2006. The only thing said during Emanuel's time was that they won't change the seats.

_______

* I bet the proposal is similar to the Boston one, where not only the Chinese underbid Bombardier, but promised to build an assembly plant in Springfield, MA (Railway Gazette)

I didn't misread the article, all the facts I've stated have been factual at this point. Rahm and Bombardier were "secretly" planning a manufacturing facility that derailed when the administration and cta found out about the journal bearing situation. Yes, Rahm had no involvement with the 5000s creation, but he has plenty involvement since their launch

[Busjack]

18 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

Rahm and Bombardier were "secretly" planning a manufacturing facility that derailed when the administration and cta found out about the journal bearing situation.

It was derailed when Hilkevitch blew the whistle in the Tribune. The journal bearing issue was resolved to CTA's satisfaction.

But I was apparently correct that you were carrying over the derailed 3200s deal in indicating that somehow da Mare had some partiality toward Bombardier. No indication (as of yet) that Bombardier made a similar offer to open a plant in Chicago as part of the current bid.

[Juniorz]

14 hours ago, Busjack said:

It was derailed when Hilkevitch blew the whistle in the Tribune. The journal bearing issue was resolved to CTA's satisfaction.

But I was apparently correct that you were carrying over the derailed 3200s deal in indicating that somehow da Mare had some partiality toward Bombardier. No indication (as of yet) that Bombardier made a similar offer to open a plant in Chicago as part of the current bid.

Reading the article in "detail" a manufacturer is not specified for the new rail facility .

"In the new bid request, the CTA also made it clear that a significant factor in its decision would be whether the competitors would open a factory in Chicago to assemble the cars."

[Busjack]

No, you did not read it "in detail." The article also said:

"Details of Bombardier's bid aren't available, but in its brochure CSR promises to spend $40 million to build a 160-employee manufacturing facility on the Southeast Side."

[BusHunter]

23 hours ago, Pink Jazz said:

If CTA awards the contract to CSR, I would not be surprised to see Bombardier file a formal protest and a lawsuit to overturn the award, considering that CTA is knowingly using a loophole to circumvent fair FTA procurement rules, which prohibits locking out specific vendors.  And knowing that the FTA has gotten more strict about enforcing its rules in recent years (see their ruling for out-of-state agencies purchasing from the Minnesota CPV umbrella contract without procurement), I except they will rule in favor of Bombardier. CTA better not make the foolish decision to award the contract to CSR, otherwise that will lead to more delays for the 7000-series due to the protest and litigation.

I believe CTA did this before, take the 2nd in line on a bid but I don't remember what bid. They obviously were not interested in the 2nd in line on the first bid. They don't seem to be interested in Bombardier or they wouldn't have rebid.

[Busjack]

25 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

They don't seem to be interested in Bombardier or they wouldn't have rebid.

Why is this repeated, when it was made clear that the only reason it was rebid was that there was insufficient competition replying to the first specification, which said that the 7000s had to be compatible with the 5000s?

Half of you think Bombardier has already been disqualified, and others think it has the ins. Unless any of you works for the Chief Rail Engineer, the only thing that is known probably is that Greg Hinz talked to some lobbyists.

[briman94]

4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Why is this repeated, when it was made clear that the only reason it was rebid was that there was insufficient competition replying to the first specification, which said that the 7000s had to be compatible with the 5000s?

Half of you think Bombardier has already been disqualified, and others think it has the ins. Unless any of you works for the Chief Railway Engineer, the only thing that is known probably is that Greg Hinz talked to some lobbyists.

You beat me to it. They hardly got any bids on the last one because nobody wanted to add compatibility with the 5000-series (stupid software patents...)

Now, if Bombardier is the lowest bid this time and meets all the criteria, they'd better darn well take the bid because then they will have compatibility with the 5000s and they can train them together if needed. It's an added bonus.

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, briman94 said:

You beat me to it. They hardly got any bids on the last one because nobody wanted to add compatibility with the 5000-series (stupid software patents...)

Now, if Bombardier is the lowest bid this time and meets all the criteria, they'd better darn well take the bid because then they will have compatibility with the 5000s and they can train them together if needed. It's an added bonus.

As I noted above, maybe they will have compatibility or maybe they won't if they have to do something to bring the price down from the previously announced $1.6 million/car.

I think the only thing that can be said with certainty is one thing Juniorz said: we'll find out on or about the date of the CT Board March or April meeting.

[BusHunter]

33 minutes ago, Busjack said:

As I noted above, maybe they will have compatibility or maybe they won't if they have to do something to bring the price down from the previously announced $1.6 million/car.

I think the only thing that can be said with certainty is one thing Juniorz said: we'll find out on or about the date of the CT Board March or April meeting.

I take it the first bid has #5000 accessibility but the 2nd bid don't. If they take on Bombardier on the 2nd bid they would have lost the compatibility of the first. But I don't get how this 2nd bid was not a complete wait of time then and even may have less to favor than the first bid had.

[briman94]

3 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I take it the first bid has #5000 accessibility but the 2nd bid don't. If they take on Bombardier on the 2nd bid they would have lost the compatibility of the first. But I don't get how this 2nd bid was not a complete wait of time then and even may have less to favor than the first bid had.

The reason they pulled the first bid and re-posted the RFP was mainly to remove the "compatible with 5000-series" requirement. They also added a few extra options.

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, BusHunter said:

I take it the first bid has #5000 accessibility but the 2nd bid don't. If they take on Bombardier on the 2nd bid they would have lost the compatibility of the first. But I don't get how this 2nd bid was not a complete wait of time then and even may have less to favor than the first bid had.

Aside from maybe being a stalling tactic (the rehab of the 3200s would not have been justified under the original schedule), the justifications given were (1) the bid price was too high, which, as I indicated above, sets a ceiling on this round of bids), and (2) this would somehow assure that the 7000s would be "up to date."

Just now, briman94 said:

The reason they pulled the first bid and re-posted the RFP was mainly to remove the "compatible with 5000-series" requirement. They also added a few extra options.

That's correct. I don't know what difference it would make to have an option for Tomlinson couplers instead of Form 5 ones with regard to meeting the two criteria stated above, but there must be one. I can see how automatic third rail deicer dispensers would be an improvement, but that alone could make the cars incompatible.

[Juniorz]

From Mr. Carter's remarks during February 28th WBBM At Issue "An announcement regarding the new rail cars is coming "Very Soon!" 

Stay Tuned!

[BusHunter]

11 hours ago, Juniorz said:

From Mr. Carter's remarks during February 28th WBBM At Issue "An announcement regarding the new rail cars is coming "Very Soon!" 

Stay Tuned!

Hmm... they say on CBS news that they want the cars to be manufactured here. Hmm.... I wonder who said they would manufacture cars here???

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/02/28/cta-preparing-to-purchase-more-than-850-new-rail-cars/

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Hmm... they say on CBS news that they want the cars to be manufactured here. Hmm.... I wonder who said they would manufacture cars here???

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/02/28/cta-preparing-to-purchase-more-than-850-new-rail-cars/

You obviously have not been reading this topic Try again.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

You obviously have not been reading this topic Try again.

You are obviously missing the point. The point is if Bombardier is not offering a chicago manufacturing location then they are out and CSR is in. I told you that chicago jobs matters to the politicos, probably so much that they might actually buy from a 2nd bidder. 

[sw4400]

25 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

You are obviously missing the point. The point is if Bombardier is not offering a chicago manufacturing location then they are out and CSR is in. I told you that chicago jobs matters to the politicos, probably so much that they might actually buy from a 2nd bidder. 

It's still hazy at best.....

It has been reported that the mayor wants the rail cars built in Chicago. Carter will only say there’s a part of the contract that suggests American-built cars.

“One of the features that’s in the solicitation is something that’s called the U.S. employment plan that allows a manufacturer to basically identify opportunities that they could present to this contract,” Carter said. “There’s nothing in the contract itself that specifically dictates where those jobs have to be generated.”

I don't know if CSR is currently based anywhere in the U.S(their website only shows a Chinese address for contact, which no doubt is their plant. New Flyer shows a US Plant address in St. Cloud, Nova Bus in Plattsburgh). Bombardier has a plant based in Plattsburgh, NY. That might also be why CSR is wanting to build a plant on the southeast side of Chicago, because they may not have a U.S Plant at this time(much like M.A.N didn't when 7000-7019 were made in 1979, the shells were finished by AM General).

It's still up in the air as to who CTA has selected until they say that (Transit Company Here) has won the contract to build up to 850 new railcars dubbed the 7000-Series.

[BusHunter]

The mayor has shown he has the executive decision here as far as where equipment goes. It goes to the people that he needs the votes from and minorities get niete. So based on that, I would say the mayor has the last say on what will happen.

In a way this is misguided, because like say Kia wanted to build you a fleet of cars or Mercedes for the same price, you would go with Kia cause they want to build here? Ultimately it should matter what is the best product for the money, not where they are being built.

[Busjack]

It isn't as complicated as you two guys are making it out, as neither of you have read Juniorz's post and my reply.

Or maybe you should go back to the original Crain's article.

As well as a citation to the Railway Gazette that C-R built a facility in Springfield MA. to get the MBTA contract.

[Busjack]

4 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The mayor has shown he has the executive decision here as far as where equipment goes.

Totally unsubstantiated.

[BusHunter]

14 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Totally unsubstantiated.

Ask yourself this, why then would it matter what the mayor wishes, if he is not running things, yet the article says the mayor wants a manufacturing facility here.

So your telling me Claypool, Huberman, and Carter all have the same views. Yeah right!!

[Juniorz]

All I'm going to say is this, on March 9th (or April 6th), all questions will finally be answered and a new rail series will be born. Mr. Carter has not insinuated anything other than an award will be announced "very soon".