Return of the X Routes

[Shannoncvpi]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Further proof the 53 should start at the Orange Line. 31st to 51st isn’t such a long distance, esp considering 33rd to 43rd is effectively going to be no stops considering the landscape. Then 82 can be moved to 31st/Komensky full time

The 82 does turn around at 31st full time

[NewFlyerMCI]

24 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said:

The 82 does turn around at 31st full time

Yeah, 31st/Central Park (really 32nd).

31st/Komensky is only after 9p, during the day, trips end at Congress or 31st/CP

[artthouwill]

14 hours ago, cta5658 said:

My opinion on the X28 Stony Island Express was that the problem was that it stopped every block like the 28 until 47th/Lake park when the X28 headed on Lake Shore Drive to Union Station, if it was brought back, it would have to stop every 4 blocks.

I don't think Stony Island has the ridership to warrant express service every 1/2 mile.  That's why most of the rush 28s go downtown and not 47th/Lake Park.   The other thing is that the downtown trips have to supplant the 6 north of 67th and has to make all of the stops that the 6 makes.

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The X28 did stop every 4 blocks and run via Hyde park to Union, but that was before all other X routes were cut. Whether or not it should’ve gone to OTC is debatable, CUS was just a convenient layover point, not it’s dedicated destination

Originally X28 went to IMD, but (unlike what the consultants said) there was no demand from the south side to there, so it was cut back to CUS.

Similarly, there was the 127 Circulator to IMD, but that didn't work, either.

At the time of that south side restructuring, I wondered if and how they determined the downtown terminals (i.e. 6 to Wacker, 14 to Ogilvie, etc.), but X28 was the only one that changed.

[artthouwill]

10 hours ago, Shannoncvpi said:

The 82 got too many dam stop signs up north & at 31st terminal its already tight af when you got the 53 82 & 53a all in one term then with the 53 running artics & the 82 running artics have anyone ever tried to pull in with an attic while another attic or 2 along with the 53A there at the same time its a nightmare 2 weeks ago I had a artic & it was 2 53 buses thats was artics & a 53a there it was he'll sliding in then another reg 53 40 foot & 82 40 footer was close behind 

Thar 31st/Kominsky turnaround is too small for those high frequency routes. I would either stagger some 53A trips or extend the 53A to use the Pink Line turnaround 

I would stagger 53A trips with trips beginning at 115th ending at Pulaski Orange Line and trips beginning at 81st ending at 31st or Pink Line.  Whatever the case, I would not send the 82 there because that creates the same problem that already exists.  It's doing fine at 31st and Lawndale. ( I know that they layover on Central).

Rhe Pulaski Pink line turnaround is big enough to handle the 53A and the 157.

UPDATE:  Thinking about this more, CTA could bring back the 53AL.  It could be that or X53A or 153 South Pulaski Express with local stops from 115th to 81st and 1/2 mile stops north of 79th to the Orange Line or even the Pink Line.   Pulaski has long supported an express bus route daring back to the 162.  I believe extending the 53A north 1 mile is better than extending the 53 2 1/4 miles south to the Orange Line. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Thar 31st/Kominsky turnaround is too small for those high frequency routes. I would either stagger some 53A trips or extend the 53A to use the Pink Line turnaround 

I would stagger 53A trips with trips beginning at 115th ending at Pulaski Orange Line and trips beginning at 81st ending at 31st or Pink Line.  Whatever the case, I would not send the 82 there because that creates the same problem that already exists.  It's doing fine at 31st and Lawndale. ( I know that they layover on Central).

Rhe Pulaski Pink line turnaround is big enough to handle the 53A and the 157.

UPDATE:  Thinking about this more, CTA could bring back the 53AL.  It could be that or X53A or 153 South Pulaski Express with local stops from 115th to 81st and 1/2 mile stops north of 79th to the Orange Line or even the Pink Line.   Pulaski has long supported an express bus route daring back to the 162.  I believe extending the 53A north 1 mile is better than extending the 53 2 1/4 miles south to the Orange Line. 

I like your idea of staggering it, and the express for south Pulaski. A regular X53 from Peterson to maybe 81st could handle that.
 

If half of 53A trips end at 31st/K and 53 goes to Orange Line, some 82 trips during the day should serve the terminal. It provides a transfer connection southbound, especially with the 53A, as the 82/52 isn’t a direct transfer and the 52 only goes as far as 63rd. Maybe introduce more Congress trips and extend everything else to 31st/K.

Speaking of terminals, Cicero/24th desperately needs an actual layout and signal restructure for that intersection.

[jajuan]

14 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The X28 did stop every 4 blocks and run via Hyde park to Union, but that was before all other X routes were cut. Whether or not it should’ve gone to OTC is debatable, CUS was just a convenient layover point, not it’s dedicated destination

Actually no it didn't. The whole reason X28 was created was because folks on the south side didn't like CTA's previous experiment of having the 28 an express route during all times of service.  A large part of it was because of the route running on Hyde Park instead of Lake Park. So they restored the 28 to a local route and operating on Lake Park north of the Museum, but terminating at 47th/Lake Park since the 15 pretty much took over carrying passenger to the 47th Red Line station. A separate X28 route was created that replaced the previous 28 express and operated rush periods only. It ran with the same exact route and service stop pattern as the 28 express, meaning what made it express was the nonstop express zone on Lake Shore Drive. There was no limited stop pattern south of 47th Street. 

[artthouwill]

40 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Actually no it didn't. The whole reason X28 was created was because folks on the south side didn't like CTA's previous experiment of having the 28 an express route during all times of service.  A large part of it was because of the route running on Hyde Park instead of Lake Park. So they restored the 28 to a local route and operating on Lake Park north of the Museum, but terminating at 47th/Lake Park since the 15 pretty much took over carrying passenger to the 47th Red Line station. A separate X28 route was created that replaced the previous 28 express and operated rush periods only. It ran with the same exact route and service stop pattern as the 28 express, meaning what made it express was the nonstop express zone on Lake Shore Drive. There was no limited stop pattern south of 47th Street. 

The original problem with the 28 downtown route wasn't that folks didn't like the route going downtown as much as it didn't generate any ridership in Hyde Park.  That was because there wasn't ridership along Lake Park which was the original and historical routing.  Meanwhile the restructured 6 Jackson Park Express was getting crush loads.    So CTA adjusted the 28 to run via Hyde Park and rerouted the 15 to run on Lake Park.   The 28 reroute gave some relief to the 6 during the rush, but outside of that,  Hyde Park riders did not ride the 28. That is why the 28 local was restored and the X28 was created to maintain the rush hour help with the 6.  Stony Island never really had a downtown market and the higher frequency of the 6 makes it the preferred option.

I would do away with the 28 going downtown altogether and would go with one of two options.

1.  Eliminate the 1 Bronzeville/Union and make it a South Hyde Park Express terminating at 63rd.   Also I would change the terminal  from Union zstation to Michigan and Wacker or Michigan and Ohio or maybe even Navy Pier.  With a Navy Oier terminal you have the option of renumbered the 2 trips to 60th the 1, making that a bidirectional  and NB 1 South Hyde Park Express trips can begin at 59th and Stony Island. 

2.  Short turn half of the 6s all day at 57th and the Museum.  Except for trips serving Kenwood students,  there's no need for every 6 to go to 79th. 

[jajuan]

37 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The original problem with the 28 downtown route wasn't that folks didn't like the route going downtown as much as it didn't generate any ridership in Hyde Park.  That was because there wasn't ridership along Lake Park which was the original and historical routing.  Meanwhile the restructured 6 Jackson Park Express was getting crush loads.    So CTA adjusted the 28 to run via Hyde Park and rerouted the 15 to run on Lake Park.   The 28 reroute gave some relief to the 6 during the rush, but outside of that,  Hyde Park riders did not ride the 28. That is why the 28 local was restored and the X28 was created to maintain the rush hour help with the 6.  Stony Island never really had a downtown market and the higher frequency of the 6 makes it the preferred option.

I would do away with the 28 going downtown altogether and would go with one of two options.

1.  Eliminate the 1 Bronzeville/Union and make it a South Hyde Park Express terminating at 63rd.   Also I would change the terminal  from Union zstation to Michigan and Wacker or Michigan and Ohio or maybe even Navy Pier.  With a Navy Oier terminal you have the option of renumbered the 2 trips to 60th the 1, making that a bidirectional  and NB 1 South Hyde Park Express trips can begin at 59th and Stony Island. 

2.  Short turn half of the 6s all day at 57th and the Museum.  Except for trips serving Kenwood students,  there's no need for every 6 to go to 79th. 

Your second option would probably be the better one because the first one brings up the question of why not just do that anyway. And I'm not sure it's as accurate to say that Stony Island doesn't have a downtown market as as it is maybe Union Station may not necessarily be the best north end terminus for the route. In the morning rush I have observed that are a good number of riders when the buses come off Balbo onto Michigan Ave. But once past Adams and State buses are already pretty empty. In the PM vice versa. Not many aboard coming along Jackson, but a modest number after passing Jackson and State. 

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

The original problem with the 28 downtown route wasn't that folks didn't like the route going downtown as much as it didn't generate any ridership in Hyde Park.  That was because there wasn't ridership along Lake Park which was the original and historical routing.  Meanwhile the restructured 6 Jackson Park Express was getting crush loads.    So CTA adjusted the 28 to run via Hyde Park and rerouted the 15 to run on Lake Park.   The 28 reroute gave some relief to the 6 during the rush, but outside of that,  Hyde Park riders did not ride the 28. That is why the 28 local was restored and the X28 was created to maintain the rush hour help with the 6.  Stony Island never really had a downtown market and the higher frequency of the 6 makes it the preferred option.

I would do away with the 28 going downtown altogether and would go with one of two options.

1.  Eliminate the 1 Bronzeville/Union and make it a South Hyde Park Express terminating at 63rd.   Also I would change the terminal  from Union zstation to Michigan and Wacker or Michigan and Ohio or maybe even Navy Pier.  With a Navy Pier terminal you have the option of renumbered the 2 trips to 60th the 1, making that a bidirectional  and NB 1 South Hyde Park Express trips can begin at 59th and Stony Island. 

2.  Short turn half of the 6s all day at 57th and the Museum.  Except for trips serving Kenwood students,  there's no need for every 6 to go to 79th. 

What is the exact routing going to be for the revised #1?  63rd to Navy Pier and or Wacker/Michigan? Then as far as the #2 is concerned have it start at 59th an Stony Island and run it Bidirectional to the 1 during the rush and have it terminate at Union? I just want to make sure I'm understanding your idea in full context.

[artthouwill]

8 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Your second option would probably be the better one because the first one brings up the question of why not just do that anyway. And I'm not sure it's as accurate to say that Stony Island doesn't have a downtown market as as it is maybe Union Station may not necessarily be the best north end terminus for the route. In the morning rush I have observed that are a good number of riders when the buses come off Balbo onto Michigan Ave. But once past Adams and State buses are already pretty empty. In the PM vice versa. Not many aboard coming along Jackson, but a modest number after passing Jackson and State. 

I attribute your good number of riders to the Hyde Park boarding, especially if a 28 happens to perfectly fill a gap between two 6s or happens to precede a 6.  I think those numbers would go up if the 28 had a terminal at Michigan and Wacker or further north.

I still prefer a 28 and X28 distinction since there's a different routing in the Hyde Park corridor between downtown and nondowntown trips. I still don't think there's much of a downtown market for the 28, especially since Jeffery is 1/2  away and the J14 runs express from 67th as opposed to 47th for the 6 and 28. The Metra tracks to the west of Stony Island limit that market and competes with Metra to a small degree.

[artthouwill]

3 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

What is the exact routing going to be for the revised #1?  63rd to Navy Pier and or Wacker/Michigan? Then as far as the #2 is concerned have it start at 59th an Stony Island and run it Bidirectional to the 1 during the rush and have it terminate at Union? I just want to make sure I'm understanding your idea in full context.

The idea of the 1 was to serve the Hyde Park area but not Union Station to make it more effective.  I only suggested the current nonpeak direction of the 2 to possibly be attached to that 1 if Nagy Pier was the end destination.   It's not necessary but a thought.  But I suppose the same thing can be accomplished by terminating half of the 6s at 57th to keep the busiest portion of the 6 at a high frequency and ditch the downtown 28, which runs at a lower frequency. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

3 hours ago, jajuan said:

Actually no it didn't. The whole reason X28 was created was because folks on the south side didn't like CTA's previous experiment of having the 28 an express route during all times of service.  A large part of it was because of the route running on Hyde Park instead of Lake Park. So they restored the 28 to a local route and operating on Lake Park north of the Museum, but terminating at 47th/Lake Park since the 15 pretty much took over carrying passenger to the 47th Red Line station. A separate X28 route was created that replaced the previous 28 express and operated rush periods only. It ran with the same exact route and service stop pattern as the 28 express, meaning what made it express was the nonstop express zone on Lake Shore Drive. There was no limited stop pattern south of 47th Street. 

I stand corrected. I honestly don’t remember the X28 being a local, but I’ll just chalk it up to getting on at 75th and not being local streets that long.

[NewFlyerMCI]

I still maintain that any N-S routes east of the Ryan that don’t have a direct CTA connection should be going downtown all-day. 6 for South Shore, 14 for Jeffery, 28 for Stony Island. Makes no sense for riders near Stony to effectively be relegated to taking the Red Line or hopping over to Jeffery to get downtown and access other routes

[artthouwill]

12 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I still maintain that any N-S routes east of the Ryan that don’t have a direct CTA connection should be going downtown all-day. 6 for South Shore, 14 for Jeffery, 28 for Stony Island. Makes no sense for riders near Stony to effectively be relegated to taking the Red Line or hopping over to Jeffery to get downtown and access other routes

For years the 28 terminal was 47th/Indiana, but during most of that time there was also a CTA L station at 63rd

  .  Jeffery and South Shore Drive also had routes serving that station.  Unfortunately,  a structural crack on the bridge over the IC (ME) tracks forced the truncation of the Jackson Park branch of the L.  But even before that the 6 was the preferred option for many riders with the Dan Ryan Line  being second.  Perhaps that and the expense to rebuild the bridge play a factor in not rebuilding the connection back to Stony.  The CRA built a new structure from Kimball to Dorchester but the church there was successful in convincing the CTA to tear down the structure all the way to Cottage Grove. 

There was no griping from the community about lack of access to downtown along Stony Island before the 2003 restructuring,  and there was no griping when the X28 was reduced to rush hour only.  I'm sure if CTA stopped sending the 28 downtown,  there would be little griping,  and that might come from a few Hyde Park riders and not from Stony riders.

[Shannoncvpi]

9 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Yeah, 31st/Central Park (really 32nd).

31st/Komensky is only after 9p, during the day, trips end at Congress or 31st/CP

Yea I forgot about that 

[jajuan]

31 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I stand corrected. I honestly don’t remember the X28 being a local, but I’ll just chalk it up to getting on at 75th and not being local streets that long.

Yeah X28 wasn't an X route in the sense of the others being crosstown limited stop routes that supplemented a main local route it ran beside. It was more similar to the routes like 2, 6, 135, and 147 among others in being an express route that ran local for part of its route and had an extended nonstop express zone on a highway, which for the remaining express routes that do so is Lake Shore Drive. 

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I attribute your good number of riders to the Hyde Park boarding, especially if a 28 happens to perfectly fill a gap between two 6s or happens to precede a 6.  I think those numbers would go up if the 28 had a terminal at Michigan and Wacker or further north.

I still prefer a 28 and X28 distinction since there's a different routing in the Hyde Park corridor between downtown and nondowntown trips. I still don't think there's much of a downtown market for the 28, especially since Jeffery is 1/2  away and the J14 runs express from 67th as opposed to 47th for the 6 and 28. The Metra tracks to the west of Stony Island limit that market and competes with Metra to a small degree.

That hasn't been my observation having used the route in the peak direction to visit friends south of Hyde Park. A good part of those downtown riders have been from Stony Island itself south of Hyde Park. I agree with you that it's not 6 heavy, but the traffic has been there. That's been especially true with the Red Line having been in the news so much lately for folks being robbed or victims of violent attacks on either the train or station platforms. On a side note, the north side expresses have seen similar upticks. But either way the route is serving a purpose CTA hasn't shown little indication it wants to end. I do agree with you though that CTA should reinstate a local vs express distinction between the Stony Island buses that end and those that travel downtown.

[renardo870]

18 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The X28 did stop every 4 blocks and run via Hyde park to Union, but that was before all other X routes were cut. Whether or not it should’ve gone to OTC is debatable, CUS was just a convenient layover point, not it’s dedicated destination

The X28 Stony Island Express made all local stops from 103rd to 47th then went 'Express' to 11th/Columbus and then made local stops to Union Station. It wasn't like the skip stop service that the 14 Jeffery Express/J14Jeffery Jump provides. 

[artthouwill]

58 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

The X28 Stony Island Express made all local stops from 103rd to 47th then went 'Express' to 11th/Columbus and then made local stops to Union Station. It wasn't like the skip stop service that the 14 Jeffery Express/J14Jeffery Jump provides. 

That wasn't @jajuan who said the X28 was a skip stop express.

[renardo870]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:29 PM, artthouwill said:

The original problem with the 28 downtown route wasn't that folks didn't like the route going downtown as much as it didn't generate any ridership in Hyde Park.  That was because there wasn't ridership along Lake Park which was the original and historical routing.  Meanwhile the restructured 6 Jackson Park Express was getting crush loads.    So CTA adjusted the 28 to run via Hyde Park and rerouted the 15 to run on Lake Park.   The 28 reroute gave some relief to the 6 during the rush, but outside of that,  Hyde Park riders did not ride the 28. That is why the 28 local was restored and the X28 was created to maintain the rush hour help with the 6.  Stony Island never really had a downtown market and the higher frequency of the 6 makes it the preferred option.

I would do away with the 28 going downtown altogether and would go with one of two options.

1.  Eliminate the 1 Bronzeville/Union and make it a South Hyde Park Express terminating at 63rd.   Also I would change the terminal  from Union zstation to Michigan and Wacker or Michigan and Ohio or maybe even Navy Pier.  With a Navy Oier terminal you have the option of renumbered the 2 trips to 60th the 1, making that a bidirectional  and NB 1 South Hyde Park Express trips can begin at 59th and Stony Island. 

2.  Short turn half of the 6s all day at 57th and the Museum.  Except for trips serving Kenwood students,  there's no need for every 6 to go to 79th. 

If the #1 was to restored via Hyde Park Blvd, maybe the end route could be 67th/Lakefront terminal  or the 79th/South Shore Terminal. Then the #6 could be extended  south to 83rd/Jeffery via South Shore Dr and 83rd Street to Jeffery/South Chicago or 92nd/Commercial via South Shore 83rd Exchange Commercial, 92nd to Buffalo. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by renardo870
Added additional info

[Busjack]

On 6/9/2022 at 4:40 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

Ashland/63rd would be better than 79th red, especially since that’s barely a connection

The Rail Service Alert topic illustrates the problem. Ashland-63  branch trains run at best every 15 to 20 minutes. Red Line runs approx. every 3 to 8 minutes. That was also the case when the Red Line ran to Ashland.

If crossing Lafayette Ave. from the current turnaround is such a problem, you should advocate that the South Halsted Corridor Project include building a bus bridge at 79th. Minus that, 69-Red Line (via Vincennes) would make more sense than 63rd.