Sam92 Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 44 minutes ago, pudgym29 said: As well, since the Authority has proclaimed the return of the #X54 route: Since its original run was from Jefferson Park Transit Center to Midway Orange Line, the reinstatment of the route should probably be from Chicago garage. This would also allow the route to be partially served by electric buses. The southerly lane at the south portal @ Jeff. Pk. would get the charging equipment, as Midway has the equipment for the #63 route. Depends. You could possibly have an issue similar to K not having the resources to handle the #10 extension. K added 12, 60 and 82 to the FBN on top of the #10 extension but only got rid of off peak #151 and moved #35 to 7 so that's probably why they had their issues. C is in a similar situation with all these extensions and FBN additions but so far only looks to be offloading 54B so maybe moving something to FG will offset any issues.
Busjack Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Sam92 said: Depends. You could possibly have an issue similar to K not having the resources to handle the #10 extension. K added 12, 60 and 82 to the FBN on top of the #10 extension but only got rid of off peak #151 and moved #35 to 7 so that's probably why they had their issues. C is in a similar situation with all these extensions and FBN additions but so far only looks to be offloading 54B so maybe moving something to FG will offset any issues. All these (and Pace) service enhancements are based on the premise that there are enough resources to fill the pick, so I assume they will not be officially announced to the public ( @pudgym29 notwithstanding) until there are enough operators to fill the pick. Not up to us to do it for the Authority.
MetroShadow Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 On 6/19/2026 at 12:36 PM, NewFlyerMCI said: Where’s the Kalshi/Polymarket/(insert betting site here) on whether this means 83rd/South Shore, 79th/South Shore, 67th/South Shore, 63rd/Stony Island or perhaps even 47th/Lake Park 😂 Going off the board. With a box of Donuts Somewhere in the U of C neighborhood (63rd/Stony) 1
Sam92 Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 On 6/19/2026 at 2:36 PM, NewFlyerMCI said: Where’s the Kalshi/Polymarket/(insert betting site here) on whether this means 83rd/South Shore, 79th/South Shore, 67th/South Shore, 63rd/Stony Island or perhaps even 47th/Lake Park 😂 Sadly they'd have to make a serious move towards implementing it to see the point of this 😮💨. Personally since the #10 and #6 are express and the 'L' has such a bad reputation I'm thinking this is to handle local traffic between south loop to the Obama Center in which case 63rd and Stony would probably be the terminal. Everything else on the list at least has something we can clearly say is being done to streamline or connect services (53, the midway feeders, 88/92).
Busjack Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 3 hours ago, Sam92 said: Sadly they'd have to make a serious move towards implementing it to see the point of this 😮💨. Personally since the #10 and #6 are express and the 'L' has such a bad reputation I'm thinking this is to handle local traffic between south loop to the Obama Center in which case 63rd and Stony would probably be the terminal. Everything else on the list at least has something we can clearly say is being done to streamline or connect services (53, the midway feeders, 88/92). From this and your previous posts, you're saying bring back the 1 Drexel Hyde Park, but, personally, I don't think so, for reasons I previously said.
Sam92 Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 7 hours ago, Busjack said: From this and your previous posts, you're saying bring back the 1 Drexel Hyde Park, but, personally, I don't think so, for reasons I previously said. "Extend along the lakefront" is very vague BUT I interpreted it as however it does, the southern portion is gonna wind up getting along Hyde Park, 57th, Stony to 63rd. Due to the layout and experience of the area I don't see Drexel (too close to Cottage) or Lake Park (one way and also close to Cottage north of 39th) being options. Woodlawn and Greenwood are 3-4 blocks way from cottage but are quiet and not student apartments compared to further south where the 171 and 172 serve so this is a tricky call Edit: meant to throw this in but there's also development along Michigan and Indiana, I know 43rd is supposed to be redeveloped so they might be fishing for potential riders out of that
Busjack Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 12 hours ago, Sam92 said: "Extend along the lakefront" is very vague BUT I interpreted it as however it does, the southern portion is gonna wind up getting along Hyde Park, 57th, Stony to 63rd. Due to the layout and experience of the area I don't see Drexel (too close to Cottage) or Lake Park (one way and also close to Cottage north of 39th) being options. Woodlawn and Greenwood are 3-4 blocks way from cottage but are quiet and not student apartments compared to further south where the 171 and 172 serve so this is a tricky call Edit: meant to throw this in but there's also development along Michigan and Indiana, I know 43rd is supposed to be redeveloped so they might be fishing for potential riders out of that If it were 63-Stony Island, CTA knows how to say that or OPC, so it isn't that. If we apply your "local for #6" 47th is sufficient. CTA did say "South Lakefront." Maybe they meant Quantum Campus. As good a speculation as any. 1
Busjack Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 I'll add some principles in attempt to bring some focus to this discussion. Like Pace, CTA hired Jarrett-Walker, but after the preliminary report, figured out how to implement improvements itself. The two J-W criteria are: Ridership: The Frequent Network, reinstating X54. Coverage: Essentially the half mile grid. That's illustrated by the extensions of 93 and 94, even though we said a couple of years ago that that wasn't possible because California Ave. did not go through the Metra Yard and Ravenswood Manor. (That's why I'm not buying what @Sam92 is saying about 1 through Oakland and Kenwood.) 57 to Jefferson Park is similar, and I presume west of Midway and 201 also are. There are other thins happening, such as Regional Connections and Coordination: Changes like 9 to Ravenswood Metra (and see below), consolidation of 95 and 108 with Pulse, and timing changes on 84 to connect with UP-N. Operators' Facilities: 'Nuff said, but that's the revealed reasons for 9 and 4 to 115th (intergovernmental agreement to let CTA use the Kensington ME station).
Sam92 Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 1 hour ago, Busjack said: I'll add some principles in attempt to bring some focus to this discussion. Like Pace, CTA hired Jarrett-Walker, but after the preliminary report, figured out how to implement improvements itself. The two J-W criteria are: Ridership: The Frequent Network, reinstating X54. Coverage: Essentially the half mile grid. That's illustrated by the extensions of 93 and 94, even though we said a couple of years ago that that wasn't possible because California Ave. did not go through the Metra Yard and Ravenswood Manor. (That's why I'm not buying what @Sam92 is saying about 1 through Oakland and Kenwood.) 57 to Jefferson Park is similar, and I presume west of Midway and 201 also are. These are guidelines but there are situations where you can't always comform to that standard and maintain consistent service. The Lakefront pushes in so far that running down Lake Park becomes redundant to the #4 (conflicting with the long established rule of not providing duplicate service) between 35th to Oakland/Kenwood area then physically south of 42nd you might as well use Greenwood and Woodlawn instead. So I understand why you would interpret the #1 extension as you did but the location and layout of Lake Park is why I have my doubts. At most I can see maybe via Indiana to 43rd (where Lake Park is actually more distant from Cottage), then Woodlawn (SB) continuing along the lake from there. Only NB buses would be able to use Lake Park.
YoungBusLover Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 1 hour ago, Sam92 said: These are guidelines but there are situations where you can't always comform to that standard and maintain consistent service. The Lakefront pushes in so far that running down Lake Park becomes redundant to the #4 (conflicting with the long established rule of not providing duplicate service) between 35th to Oakland/Kenwood area then physically south of 42nd you might as well use Greenwood and Woodlawn instead. So I understand why you would interpret the #1 extension as you did but the location and layout of Lake Park is why I have my doubts. At most I can see maybe via Indiana to 43rd (where Lake Park is actually more distant from Cottage), then Woodlawn (SB) continuing along the lake from there. Only NB buses would be able to use Lake Park. I laid out a few layouts for the possible south Lakefront extension of the #1 that more than likely will head SB to 63rd/Stony Island. I think the one that makes the most sense is Michigan to 51st, 51st to Lake Park down to 56th over to Stony Island and 63rd and then the same way in reverse to the current routing via 51st/Indiana. 51st is the busiest corridor just East of State Street and if the CTA wanted to add some extra service to an area that needs it as a feeder that would be the way to do it. The other options are little more complicated since Greenwood has speed bumps on it now North of 47th, Lake Park is nice going NB but the problem would be the narrow streets that run parallel to it going SB that are very narrow. Drexel Blvd would be the 2nd best option outside of Ellis or Woodlawn south of 43rd. 43rd isn't much of a rider generator compared to 47th or 51st. Duplicate service via Michigan/Indiana or Drexel would be an issue that could easily be resolved depending on the frequency and the obvious direction of the route. 1
Sam92 Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 2 hours ago, YoungBusLover said: I laid out a few layouts for the possible south Lakefront extension of the #1 that more than likely will head SB to 63rd/Stony Island. I think the one that makes the most sense is Michigan to 51st, 51st to Lake Park down to 56th over to Stony Island and 63rd and then the same way in reverse to the current routing via 51st/Indiana. 51st is the busiest corridor just East of State Street and if the CTA wanted to add some extra service to an area that needs it as a feeder that would be the way to do it. The other options are little more complicated since Greenwood has speed bumps on it now North of 47th, Lake Park is nice going NB but the problem would be the narrow streets that run parallel to it going SB that are very narrow. Drexel Blvd would be the 2nd best option outside of Ellis or Woodlawn south of 43rd. 43rd isn't much of a rider generator compared to 47th or 51st. Duplicate service via Michigan/Indiana or Drexel would be an issue that could easily be resolved depending on the frequency and the obvious direction of the route. On the subject of coverage, that doesn't necessarily have to mean fill in the grid, it can also mean creating more convenient trips (think the convenience of traveling through multiple neighborhoods without having to transfer). The 39th and Drexel basically is the #4 so that's a no. We both note that it's physically hard to do anything else BUT use Michigan/Indiana if we want to avoid using Drexel. The 43 Green redevelopment along with the bronzeville to lakefront projects are what make the Indiana/51st routing stand out as the one that makes the most sense. Also notice even the #1 doesn't go south of bronzeville it's portion was replaced by #6 which turns around that does just as much local work as express work and maybe the #1 picking up the people that aren't going downtown could help.
Busjack Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 11 hours ago, Sam92 said: These are guidelines but there are situations where you can't always comform to that standard and maintain consistent service. The Lakefront pushes in so far that running down Lake Park becomes redundant to the #4 (conflicting with the long established rule of not providing duplicate service) between 35th to Oakland/Kenwood area then physically south of 42nd you might as well use Greenwood and Woodlawn instead. So I understand why you would interpret the #1 extension as you did but the location and layout of Lake Park is why I have my doubts. At most I can see maybe via Indiana to 43rd (where Lake Park is actually more distant from Cottage), then Woodlawn (SB) continuing along the lake from there. Only NB buses would be able to use Lake Park. Yes they are only guidelines and maybe the routing you suggested at the end may be necessary, but it is clear that the CTA plan is based on the stated criteria and not on such things as "the 10 needs a local."
Busjack Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 10 hours ago, YoungBusLover said: I laid out a few layouts for the possible south Lakefront extension of the #1 that more than likely will head SB to 63rd/Stony Island. I think the one that makes the most sense is Michigan to 51st, 51st to Lake Park down to 56th over to Stony Island and 63rd and then the same way in reverse to the current routing via 51st/Indiana. 51st is the busiest corridor just East of State Street and if the CTA wanted to add some extra service to an area that needs it as a feeder that would be the way to do it. The other options are little more complicated since Greenwood has speed bumps on it now North of 47th, Lake Park is nice going NB but the problem would be the narrow streets that run parallel to it going SB that are very narrow. Drexel Blvd would be the 2nd best option outside of Ellis or Woodlawn south of 43rd. 43rd isn't much of a rider generator compared to 47th or 51st. Duplicate service via Michigan/Indiana or Drexel would be an issue that could easily be resolved depending on the frequency and the obvious direction of the route. All you did was lay out the former #1 Indiana-Hyde Park. And, essentially, the Indiana corridor does not need service because it is within a few blocks of State and King Dr. and the L, and anyone who wants to go from 51st can take the #15.
Busjack Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 7 hours ago, Sam92 said: On the subject of coverage, that doesn't necessarily have to mean fill in the grid, it can also mean creating more convenient trips (think the convenience of traveling through multiple neighborhoods without having to transfer. No, that's Ridership, defined by JW as how many destinations you can reach in an hour.
YoungBusLover Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 2 hours ago, Busjack said: All you did was lay out the former #1 Indiana-Hyde Park. And, essentially, the Indiana corridor does not need service because it is within a few blocks of State and King Dr. and the L, and anyone who wants to go from 51st can take the #15. Yeah the problem is the Hyde Park area needs a consistent feeder to take a load off of the 6, 15 and 28 that are held up by heavy congestion downtown and or the south side (south of 63rd). The consistency of service over the past couple of years over there has taken a major hit during the rush periods with the increased density of the population and congestion of traffic. Add local route that helps out with while still going downtown via the heart of Hyde Park/Kenwood and Bronzville would be beneficial in my honest opinion.
Busjack Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said: Yeah the problem is the Hyde Park area needs a consistent feeder to take a load off of the 6, 15 and 28 that are held up by heavy congestion downtown and or the south side (south of 63rd). The consistency of service over the past couple of years over there has taken a major hit during the rush periods with the increased density of the population and congestion of traffic. Add local route that helps out with while still going downtown via the heart of Hyde Park/Kenwood and Bronzville would be beneficial in my honest opinion. I'll just say, I don't think so. Maybe my head is in the sand in believing that the character of the neighborhoods hasn't changed since the 1 Drexel-Hyde Park and the 5 Jeffery (via the now 15 routing to Drexel Square, and then Drexel/43rd/indiana/Michigan/Wacker to State) were canceled, but there certainly now isn't any need for the 1973 routing of #1 through Michael Reese. There might be a need for some infill via 43rd and Lake Park, but certainly no one today is going to ride a local bus from downtown to the Hyde Park area. 1
Sam92 Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 4 hours ago, Busjack said: Yes they are only guidelines and maybe the routing you suggested at the end may be necessary, but it is clear that the CTA plan is based on the stated criteria and not on such things as "the 10 needs a local." It didn't state the extension was strictly to provide coverage either. Also the #10 wasn't the only justification just ONE possible reason. See my point above about 43rd Green (which is close to Indiana). 1 hour ago, Busjack said: I'll just say, I don't think so. Maybe my head is in the sand in believing that the character of the neighborhoods hasn't changed since the 1 Drexel-Hyde Park and the 5 Jeffery (via the now 15 routing to Drexel Square, and then Drexel/43rd/indiana/Michigan/Wacker to State) were canceled, but there certainly now isn't any need for the 1973 routing of #1 through Michael Reese. There might be a need for some infill via 43rd and Lake Park, but certainly no one today is going to ride a local bus from downtown to the Hyde Park area. When is the last time you've physically been in the area? Cause 53rd is pretty much becoming it's own downtown. A LOOOT of stuff has popped up in that area. Someone that wants to go downtown is gonna take the #6 but what about people wanting to go to Bronzeville or so?
Busjack Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 1 hour ago, Sam92 said: When is the last time you've physically been in the area? Cause 53rd is pretty much becoming it's own downtown. A LOOOT of stuff has popped up in that area. Someone that wants to go downtown is gonna take the #6 but what about people wanting to go to Bronzeville or so? I know there has been development around 63rd and Dorchester and 63rd and Cottage. However, there are the 63 bus and Green Line to get around t here. In fact, the CTA Obama Center announcement said one can take the Green Line and the 63 bus. You keep changing the landscape, but if someone wants to get to Bronzeville from 63rd St. (say 43rd and Cottage), he or she can take the 4 or X4 bus. But one can't reasonably respond to your "what ifs" if you can't focus, and you have already eliminated Lake Park and Drexel. I'm not a CTA mindreader, but at least I have some conception of CTA's methodology. You don't. 1 1
NewFlyerMCI Posted June 26 Report Posted June 26 On 6/24/2026 at 1:00 PM, Busjack said: I'll just say, I don't think so. Maybe my head is in the sand in believing that the character of the neighborhoods hasn't changed since the 1 Drexel-Hyde Park and the 5 Jeffery (via the now 15 routing to Drexel Square, and then Drexel/43rd/indiana/Michigan/Wacker to State) were canceled, but there certainly now isn't any need for the 1973 routing of #1 through Michael Reese. There might be a need for some infill via 43rd and Lake Park, but certainly no one today is going to ride a local bus from downtown to the Hyde Park area. It has changed, but not that much. Anyone riding a local bus from Hyde Park (especially 53rd St area) to downtown means LSD is fighting the traffic jabberwocky and the MED is on literal fire. On 6/24/2026 at 12:14 PM, YoungBusLover said: Add local route that helps out with while still going downtown via the heart of Hyde Park/Kenwood and Bronzville would be beneficial in my honest opinion. On 6/24/2026 at 3:10 PM, Sam92 said: Someone that wants to go downtown is gonna take the #6 but what about people wanting to go to Bronzeville or so? I'm interested why y'all think the Hyde Park-Bronzeville (and let's toss South Loop in there too) demand is so great that it necessitates a single route vs the existing 59/55/15/47 to 3/4/Green transfer options. We know this is an agency largely against redundancy, and it's hard to imagine a 1 (re)extension into Hyde Park that wouldn't be that 1
Busjack Posted June 26 Report Posted June 26 2 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said: It has changed, but not that much. Anyone riding a local bus from Hyde Park (especially 53rd St area) to downtown means LSD is fighting the traffic jabberwocky and the MED is on literal fire. From when I lived in Hyde Park (a long time ago), at least those associated with the U of C only rode the IC/ME, and didn't recognize the CTA. Obviously that changed with the introduction of the 170s, and occasionally I would take the #1 for a joyride (say downtown to roughly state senator Obama's future house), but not when I had to get somewhere. I also agree with your second point, and with 6 and 28 to go downtown.
YoungBusLover Posted June 26 Report Posted June 26 12 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said: It has changed, but not that much. Anyone riding a local bus from Hyde Park (especially 53rd St area) to downtown means LSD is fighting the traffic jabberwocky and the MED is on literal fire. I'm interested why y'all think the Hyde Park-Bronzeville (and let's toss South Loop in there too) demand is so great that it necessitates a single route vs the existing 59/55/15/47 to 3/4/Green transfer options. We know this is an agency largely against redundancy, and it's hard to imagine a 1 (re)extension into Hyde Park that wouldn't be that I work the #2 religiously outside of the #8 and I've lived in Woodlawn/Hyde Park for a good chunk of my life so when I say that service out of 103rd going in/out of Hyde Park/Jackson Park is sketchy at times believe me when I tell you it is. Cottage Grove, 59th, the Jeffery Local aren't as consistent as they should be and don't get me started on 63rd Street service, 47th has improved since getting added to the FBN. Although service is currently present the best alternative for residents that need a quick shot downtown with minimal stops along the way let alone going southeast towards South Shore service isn't as consistent as it needs to be due to the bottlenecks they endure just getting into the area at times. The density between 63rd and 47th from Cottage Grove to LSD has increased a lot over the past several years and with the recent additions via the Obama Center there needs to be a concerted effort to beef up service in that corridor.
Busjack Posted June 26 Report Posted June 26 43 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said: I work the #2 religiously outside of the #8 and I've lived in Woodlawn/Hyde Park for a good chunk of my life so when I say that service out of 103rd going in/out of Hyde Park/Jackson Park is sketchy at times believe me when I tell you it is. Cottage Grove, 59th, the Jeffery Local aren't as consistent as they should be and don't get me started on 63rd Street service, 47th has improved since That's beond getting added to the FBN. Although service is currently present the best alternative for residents that need a quick shot downtown with minimal stops along the way let alone going southeast towards South Shore service isn't as consistent as it needs to be due to the bottlenecks they endure just getting into the area at times. The density between 63rd and 47th from Cottage Grove to LSD has increased a lot over the past several years and with the recent additions via the Obama Center there needs to be a concerted effort to beef up service in that corridor. That's beyond question, but: Service is sketchy all over Chicago (as typified by all the beotching about Clark). Jarrett-Walker put in a report to CTA that the ridership issue would be cured by getting back to 2007 levels. That was when CTA ran about 2400 buses. And, of course, there was bus bunching then, too. What you are suggesting doesn't have anything to do with new or extended routes, but putting more resources into existing routes. For instance, after several rounds of cuts to 59, CTA (per the planning department document) is putting more resources into 59. If I had any quarrels with the current layout, they would be the assumption that riders in Hyde Park want to take #15 to 51st-Green Line or 47th-Red Line, and, as you implied, 6, 15, and 28 come from the far south side, as opposed to former short runs on 6 to or from 63rd or 57th (current schedule brochure doesn't show any). 1
MetroShadow Posted July 30 Report Posted July 30 The paradigm discussions about the Express vs Local Debate now have their own thread. 1
BossBiggity Posted August 8 Report Posted August 8 Is anything else planned for the next round of service changes (which I think is on the 23rd) besides adding the 35, 74, and 85 to the Frequent Network? 1
Elkmn Posted August 9 Report Posted August 9 23 hours ago, BossBiggity said: Is anything else planned for the next round of service changes (which I think is on the 23rd) besides adding the 35, 74, and 85 to the Frequent Network? I believe the next big extensions will be winter pick
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