Put your bets on what bus garages may close

[Buslover88]

Yes Buslover and I were disaggreing about the Doomsday scenerio, but you have to take into consideration that if he did nothing wrong then he would've stopped posting on the topic, but he continued just as I did. So we both wanted to get our points across. Blaming only me for this would be totally unfair. And it was I who stopped the topic at the end. And I am playing by the permises of this thread. I've already placed my bet, that there will be no garage closings. And if I'm not mistaken at this point my bet was the only correct one, but then again there still is a lot of time until January 6th and anything can happen. And if playing by the permises is only pointing out spelling errors, then I'll join in that if you all what me to. And if you can't understand me, we were both chasing each other around the board. So why would this be my fault?

I was only responding because you were and I don't back down when i'm trying to give a point. You only stopped because you knew I was right and yes, there are supposed to be three closed garages starting 1/6/08. Are you trying to put all the blame on me? It's both our faults, not only mine or yours. BusExpert32, if you want to debate further, please PM me because I will not argue with you like this on a public board and I don't want to be banned again.

Anyway, I just heard about the cuts for Sunday being called off, so what does that mean? Does Sunday's cuts take place in January and January's cuts take place in the spring (or summer) of 2008? I'm worried about this and I want to know. Thank you.

[BusExpert32]

I was only responding because you were and I don't back down when i'm trying to give a point. You only stopped because you knew I was right and yes, there are supposed to be three closed garages starting 1/6/08. Are you trying to put all the blame on me? It's both our faults, not only mine or yours. BusExpert32, if you want to debate further, please PM me because I will not argue with you like this on a public board and I don't want to be banned again.

Anyway, I just heard about the cuts for Sunday being called off, so what does that mean? Does Sunday's cuts take place in January and January's cuts take place in the spring (or summer) of 2008? I'm worried about this and I want to know. Thank you.

No, I was just kindly informing Busjack that it was both of our faults. He blamed it all on me which got me upset. Sunday's cuts being called off mean's that there will be two more months for a plan to be made and approved and if it will, then there will be no cuts what so ever. Yes I also understand you, I was proving my point too and I always get blamed for it. Well you weren't right about Sunday's cuts and that's what I stopped for; to wait until Sunday. And with these cuts avoided, there will be no garage closings January 6th because the CTA could not possibly cut that many routes at the same time.

[Buslover88]

Just to let everyone know, but me and BusExpert32 will be pm-ing each other about this. End of discussion here. Thanks.

BTW, my bets are still FG, C and 74th.

[cta_44499_FG]

Street relief and washroom locations are good points.

I note that at one time, Belmont was a North-Cicero garage route. Pulaski would seem to make sense as a relief point.

The proposed killing of 93 would make it hard to set up relief points on crosstown routes from North Park, unless the drivers walk over to Kimball (or in the Lawrence case, south to Lawrence). However, since Lawrence is within 1/4 mile of North Park, I can't see it going out of any other garage.

Until I knew better, I sort of assumed that Central was a North-Cicero route; apparently it hasn't been the case for at 50 years. I never understood the purpose of the Jefferson Park-Bryn Mawr leg, except to serve the Forest Glen garage. Maybe you can inform us if it has another purpose (given the availability of 85A until the next doomsday).

90: As you know, I don't favor it having been extended to Lake, in an era of scarce resources. Assuming that other cross-town routes are eliminated, the nearest relief point would then be North Ave. As you posit it, either the reliever would have to use the Green Line to Lake-Harlem, the Belmont bus to Harlem, or get some way to the Blue Line. Or CTA could turn the whole route over to Pace, which wants to establish a corridor from Tinley Park to Glenview (ha, see if th

at ever happens).

Thats really all the 85 to Bryn Mawr is for to serve the garage. Keep in mind it connects to all the relief points, from Jeff Park all the way down to Central/Belmont...the furthest south route operating from FG. The only exception routes being the 84 and the 206 which are all pullout/in runs.

[sw4400]

I was only responding because you were and I don't back down when i'm trying to give a point. You only stopped because you knew I was right and yes, there are supposed to be three closed garages starting 1/6/08. Are you trying to put all the blame on me? It's both our faults, not only mine or yours. BusExpert32, if you want to debate further, please PM me because I will not argue with you like this on a public board and I don't want to be banned again.

Anyway, I just heard about the cuts for Sunday being called off, so what does that mean? Does Sunday's cuts take place in January and January's cuts take place in the spring (or summer) of 2008? I'm worried about this and I want to know. Thank you.

No, Buslover... What this means is come Jan. 6th, without funding, 39 bus routes will not be eliminated, but 'Doomsday' becomes 'D-Day' as 82 bus routes are eliminated(39+43=82), both waves of cuts plus the fares will increase to at or above $3.00 a ride.

This could be implemented as early as January 1st or 2nd, though.

[Buslover88]

What this means is come Jan. 6th, without funding, 39 bus routes will not be eliminated, but 'Doomsday' becomes 'D-Day' as 82 bus routes are eliminated(39+43=82), both waves of cuts plus the fares will increase to at or above $3.00 a ride.

This could be implemented as early as January 1st or 2nd, though.

SW4400, you read my mind! That's what I was thinking about besides my other option (or whatever you want to call it). I was afraid something like that was going to happen. I can't believe the CTA would do such a thing...*shakes head*

[Kevin]

I can't believe the CTA would do such a thing...*shakes head*

They're being pushed into a corner. Another problem is the labor agreement, which is contingent on CTA funding by the end of the year. If January 1st comes and there are still no funds, that deal would need to be renegotiated.

Hopefully Madigan and Cross can agree on a capital budget within their stated 7-10 day timeline. That's the only way downstaters will allow a sales tax-based transit funding bill to pass the House.

[jajuan]

They're being pushed into a corner. Another problem is the labor agreement, which is contingent on CTA funding by the end of the year. If January 1st comes and there are still no funds, that deal would need to be renegotiated.

Hopefully Madigan and Cross can agree on a capital budget within their stated 7-10 day timeline. That's the only way downstaters will allow a sales tax-based transit funding bill to pass the House.

I agree. They are being pushed into a corner. The governor and the legislature continue to play the 'give us more time' stalling games, forcing the CTA and Pace to institute new doomsday scenarios. They do absolutely nothing during this extra time, then the governor comes at the last minute with another 'heroic' temporary infusion of cash and gets in front of the media daring the transit officials to deny his gesture of help to make himself look good to the media and the public. Then we all by into this cock and bull game of his agreeing that they would be crazy to refuse the money not taking into account that all his stalling games are increasingly making the situation worse because his past gestures of help were loans from next years budget. We all need to man up so to speak and make it clear that it's time to stop the games and come up with a true permanent solution to the problem. The collective transit boards have owned up to their ends of the bargain. Now it's time for the state to do the same.

[Busjack]

The collective transit boards have owned up to their ends of the bargain.

While I agree that the state has been a disgrace, I disagree with the preceding, at least with regard to compliance with the Auditor General's recommendations. To indict all three: The CTA and Pace budgets do not eliminate overlapping service, with both eliminating service in some areas. Metra, by calling for percentage fare increases, ignored the AG's finding that riders outside of Zone E do not pay their share, and their fares should be disproportionately increased.

I agree that CTA under Huberman has made an effort to comply with recommendations regarding the pension plan, labor agreements, and track maintenance before extensions.

I also agree that the proposed state legislation removes the onus from CTA and Pace to address the service overlap issue, since it puts it in the RTA's lap, but then requires a majority vote just to enable the Executive Director to intervene. Thus, in addition to the posturing mentioned by jajuan, the legislature should be accused of dawdling over ineffective reform measures.

Finally, while we were only conjecturing, I believe that we put more thought into what goes into closing a garage than CTA management did in making its budget recommendation. Since I am not on the inside, I can't say that conclusively, however.

[Busjack]

Well here's a list of garages that'll have the remaining routes...

To reinforce my point that this isn't the criterion for what garages would close if the 2008 CTA budget is implemented, is the following from the CTA Press Release:

In addition, with more than 700 fewer buses operating due to the bus route eliminations, the CTA will close three of its eight garages. Service on the remaining routes will be provided by other locations.

Of course, you can lay your bets whether either the legislature will do something, or the governor has more secret stashes, to prevent the 2008 budget from being implemented in the form approved by the CTA Board. That is too uncertain for me to predict. However, I note that I read elsewhere that no challengers have filed in any of the legislative districts in my area for the 2008 elections, so so much for changing things from the ballot perspective.

[BusExpert32]

To reinforce my point that this isn't the criterion for what garages would close if the 2008 CTA budget is implemented, is the following from the CTA Press Release:

Of course, you can lay your bets whether either the legislature will do something, or the governor has more secret stashes, to prevent the 2008 budget from being implemented in the form approved by the CTA Board. That is too uncertain for me to predict. However, I note that I read elsewhere that no challengers have filed in any of the legislative districts in my area for the 2008 elections, so so much for changing things from the ballot perspective.

I am placing my bet that a new plan will be approved for the CTA's 2008 budget. Even though I am not happy about fare increases or route eliminations, I'm going to have to live with fare increases. Fare increases are going to be very likely, route eliminations, worker layoffs, and garages closings are not very likely. Fare increases do hurt the people, but in a lesser way than firing people or eliminating people's fast, simple transportaion connections. It's my bet and you'll all see who's right or wrong because I'm the only one here who goes against Doomsday scenerios strongly. And I've been correct about September 16 and November 4, so let's all wait until the new year, and who knows, maybe I'll be right again.

[cta5658]

Here are my picks on the garages that may close: 74th, NP And FG

[BUSANGEL#1]

My picks are 74th, 103rd, and FG

[Busjack]

Both of the above picks seem to have too many in the same part of town.

[Buslover88]

Here are my picks on the garages that may close: 74th, NP And FG

North Park has many routes still after the cuts, but I also pick 74th and FG. My pick is again 74th, FG and Chicago.

[BusExpert32]

Here are my picks on the garages that may close: 74th, NP And FG

I think it was discussed earlier that both North Park and Forest Glen can't close; there would be too much pressure and deadheading for Kedzie and Chicago to put service on those North side routes (but I still disagree about any service cuts or garage closings...).

[Buslover88]

I think it was discussed earlier that both North Park and Forest Glen can't close; there would be too much pressure and deadheading for Kedzie and Chicago to put service on those North side routes (but I still disagree about any service cuts or garage closings...).

Altough I agree with you when you say NP can't close, i'll say that Forest Glen still might close. If the cuts should happen, Forest Glen would only have 6 routes left.

[cta5658]

just letting you all know the 103rd garage might stay active because the #30 which was originally on the cuts list is now on the remaining routes so 103 will have 16 bus routes left

[Guest bohica]

I say Archer, Forest Glen, and 77th street. All the work that was done on company vehicles (not buses) has been given to the city to maintain. Alot of trades and other services being moved out of 103rd.

[BUSANGEL#1]

I say Archer, Forest Glen, and 77th street. All the work that was done on company vehicles (not buses) has been given to the city to maintain. Alot of trades and other services being moved out of 103rd.

What in the world makes you think that 77th will close when it is has the majority of CTA ridership and bus fleet because of south shops.

[busfan4022]

77th will never close, it is the main repair shop for all buses and has certain parts other garages don't have. It is way too important to be closed. FG may be closed, but with money coming in from school kids, I highly doubt it.

[Busjack]

77th will never close, it is the main repair shop for all buses and has certain parts other garages don't have. It is way too important to be closed. FG may be closed, but with money coming in from school kids, I highly doubt it.

The money coming in from school kids is irrelevant, considering that Mayor Daley held a press conference in front of Mather H.S. lamenting the loss of the route serving it, even though da Mare could have told Huberman to retain the school run. Similarly, TV news showed students from Lane Tech complaining that they would lose the X49.

One could close the 77th barn without closing the south shops. For political reasons, I wouldn't bet on it, but given its age, that is not off the table.

[cta5658]

here's another one of my picks: Chicago , FG and 74th

[qwantae]

What in the world makes you think that 77th will close when it is has the majority of CTA ridership and bus fleet because of south shops.

I wouldnt think that 74th garage will close because it is the newest garage for CTA. I remember the old one that was on 69th/ Ashland there Food 4 Less is now located at.

[jesi2282]

http://www.local241.com/news/2007/dec-13-0...%20Garages.html