What's wrong with NABIs?

[Busjack]

I thought I would start a new thread based on pacebus2322's previous post that something was wrong with the NABIs and the drivers hate them. Every identified Pace driver on this and the Yahoo forums since 2003 has made similar complaints (the 2003 one being to the effect that because of problems, the delivery from the South Holland Acceptance Facility to the divisions was being delayed). What exactly have been the problems? At least CTA stated that its were that the frame near the articulation joint was cracked, and the rear door opener doesn't work. And if there were problems with the white ones, why did Pace exercise an option for the 60 blue ones two years later, instead of rebidding?

[pace2322]

Well i tell u whats wrong with them there just junk.There slow as u know what there ride so bad that u get a bad back from them.and there brake down alot at south.

[trainman8119]

I was at Pace when the 2400s came in. Drivers at that time did not like them because there was too much glare in the windows. For whatever reason, the interior lights dimming when the doors closed did not take that problem away like the Orions did. Also, they did not accelerate well and also had the strange sensation that they were tipping over when making turns and that they had a lot of wind resistance. Mechanically they were not all that sound.

Strange story. When I attended bomb class at Metra last February, the guy that was giving the class what someone from Seattle who had something to do with their bus system for 20+ years. We got into a discussion about equipment and he was flabbergasted that the CTA would have had anything to do with NABI, especially in the articulated fleet. His comments were, pure and simple, that they were junk. They were not sound mechanically, were prone to breakdowns and were not structurally sound. He said that they were prone to the same types of problems that the Ikarus buses had, except that maybe getting parts for the NABIs would not be as difficult. He also stated that they would have a hard time lasting 10 years here. He was also surprised that Pace was building up their fleet using these for the same reasons.

[pace2322]

Were u at south or north?

[Busjack]

The most recent RTA Report indicates that this is the end of the NABI contract (although I thought they had a few more options left; according to the original NABI press release, a total of 343 units; maybe they were just 100 off or any further replacements will now be outside the contract term; the RTA report also has an example of numeric transposition).

[venom_20]

[attachment=40][attachment=41][attachment=42]Pittsburgh has had problems with those buses as well. We got them when they were still built by ikarus in 1991. They used to catch on fire and everything. But we still have them. The 6v92's in them are crap!!!!!!!!!! Notice two things., the oddball headsign in the first pic, the two last pics, the back articulated sides are way lower than the rest of the bus. Compared to the neoplan's these are trash.

[geneking7320]

Venom_20;

The seats on the Neoplan look mighty plush.

Are those buses used in regular or extra fare service?

[trainman8119]

I love the tan color scheme...beats the heck out of the Pace blue !!!!

[venom_20]

The neoplans are used in regular service on the busway ebs/eba/ebx routes, same as the ikarus. But two other garages have them also on suburban and heavy traffic routes. Neoplans are way faster with dd60's. They were brought here for the routes out of the county, but recently used in local service. Yes they have suburban interior's in them. Btw, ebs=East busway short, eba=East busway all stops, and ebx=east busway express.

The EBA route runs every 3 minutes during rush hour. Over 300 buses run the east busway every weekday. There are south and west busways too.

[inkybus]

These reports are odd- LACMTA loves NABI, they make up like half of the fleet.

[RailBus63]

Does PACE uses MDBF or other numbers to measure the reliability of its various bus models? I'd be interested to see how the NABI's fare compared to the Orion I's, which seem to be a sturdy and reliable bus.

I've rode the NABI low-floor buses in Boston - one annoying feature I noticed was a loud vibration in the back of the bus from what I presumed to be the air compressor. I noticed this on two brand-new buses that had only been in service for a month. Has anyone noticed any similar vibrations on the PACE buses?

Jim

[pace2322]

Man sunday we had the junk of the junk. 2452 no back door no ac no ramp nothing work on this bus.So thats how the rest of the 2400s are geeting down here to.Its nice that we have to good buses here 2309 and 2325.Its funny 2309 has allmost 600,000 miles on it and everthing works on it and runs better and rides better.Then that nabi junk with only 220,000 miles on it.To tell u guys i dont think the 2400s will last 5 more years there way there are now its time to replace them.Its so sd that we have all the 2100s at south and there wont used them there be alot better off with the 2100s.

[pace2322]

Well, Guy were at are one nabi blows up a week now. this week so far its 6166.

[Busjack]

i dont think the 2400s will last 5 more years there way there are now its time to replace them.

Won't happen for at least another 6 years. Pace 2006 budget says [in effect] that it can't even start replacing the 2300s unless RTA quits making it use federal 5307 funds for maintenance. Also, there is the federal requirement that a bus has to last at least 12 years. New York had to spend its own money when it decided not to use the 1979 Flxible 870s and to replace them with RTSs.

Would you rather have 6116-6144 that were transferred from South to Northwest? Northwest riders don't like them because they have fewer seats (longitudinal seating on the right side) and bad suspensions. According to the Pace budget, one of those is also already out of service.

[pace2322]

There alot better then  the nabis we have.And bad suspensions lol.there need to come out here and see what that is.Come on 6216 and see how bad that on is anything someone has it .It gets a road call out fot it.I will oove to hae the good 6100s back here.There not as bad as as nabis i know that.Since i know alot of northwset guys.

[pace2322]

And the one that out of service was a west one it had a brake fire.

[RJL6000]

Oh, rats...

Most of the buses running in my area (Pace West Division) are from NABI and its predecessor Ikarus, with a few Orion VI's and three NovaBus Classics (2398-2400). So, NABI's are everywhere in my area.

[sw4400]

And the one that out of service was a west one it had a brake fire.

Off PACE topic- CTA had a NOVABus a while back catch fire in the wheel-well area.  Bus # shown in pictures was #6510.  I don't know if this bus is still in service, nor what caused the fire, but the brakes are a possibility the way the flames looked.  

Here's the link: (Hope it works)

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=N...News&id=1927340

[pace2322]

Well here we go. So far on the 6162 to 6261 nabis only we have frames going on them. There is about 20 to 25 of them out of service right now. This is also for the 35ft 6600s.

[qwantae]

[attachment=40][attachment=41][attachment=42]Pittsburgh has had problems with those buses as well. We got them when they were still built by ikarus in 1991. They used to catch on fire and everything. But we still have them. The 6v92's in them are crap!!!!!!!!!! Notice two things., the oddball headsign in the first pic, the two last pics, the back articulated sides are way lower than the rest of the bus. Compared to the neoplan's these are trash.

In Pittsburgh, are you talking about 60 ft Articulated 1991 Ikarus or Neoplan?

[qwantae]

[attachment=40][attachment=41][attachment=42]Pittsburgh has had problems with those buses as well. We got them when they were still built by ikarus in 1991. They used to catch on fire and everything. But we still have them. The 6v92's in them are crap!!!!!!!!!! Notice two things., the oddball headsign in the first pic, the two last pics, the back articulated sides are way lower than the rest of the bus. Compared to the neoplan's these are trash.

In Pittsburgh, are you talking about 60 ft Articulated 1991 Ikarus or Neoplan?

I rode the 1995 High Floor Ikarus Articulated bus in Miami on Busaway from Dwtn Miami to South Beach on the highway, They drive way better than any NABI buses in Chicago CTA and Pace. They ride smoother and faster as MAN CTA buses.

Plus I agree that 2400s in South needs to be retire, I've seen so many of them break down since 2000 when they came, plus 3 times on 94 on Rt. 355. They should be replaced by putting older Orions and Nova Classics if Route 831./ 835 eliminates back on the road. Why not order Millenium RTSes or Orion Vs like Toronto.

[Busjack]

Why not order Millenium RTSes or Orion Vs like Toronto.

Toronto has been purchasing Orion VIIs, not Vs. According to one Toronto source, the last Orion Vs were in 1996, and "There have been numerous mechanical failures, mostly on the computer problems which will shut down the whole bus, on both the 1991 and 1996 Orion 5 buses and tow truck is usually necessary to deal with the problems." Apparently Orion Vs and VIs and Flyers have not held up well in Toronto (spurring the TTC's interest in the Standard Bus Specification).

So I guess that is "why not."

[rmadisonwi]

I think the main problem with Toronto's Orion Vs and VIs had to do with the fact that they were CNG-fueled buses (well, that, and the fact that the Orion VI was a poor design that Orion has already cancelled and replaced with the much-improved Orion VII). A couple of friends I know who work for the TTC said that the diesel buses were okay, but the CNGs were trouble from the start.

TTC has already retired the Orion VIs (last ones were either late last year or early this year; I don't think they got 12 years out of them), and the Vs have been converted to diesel.

[qwantae]

Toronto has been purchasing Orion VIIs, not Vs. According to one Toronto source, the last Orion Vs were in 1996, and "There have been numerous mechanical failures, mostly on the computer problems which will shut down the whole bus, on both the 1991 and 1996 Orion 5 buses and tow truck is usually necessary to deal with the problems." Apparently Orion Vs and VIs and Flyers have not held up well in Toronto (spurring the TTC's interest in the Standard Bus Specification).

So I guess that is "why not."

The latest Orion Vs that were just ordered couple years ago was San Francisco (The Golden Gate Transit) and New Orleans RTA seems to love Orion Vs and they still got them. I grew up in Orion Vs in Grand Rapids, Michigan, they were 1991 models but sadly they retired them in early 2006 over Gillic Phantons which I hate it. So now Im reside in Chicago area and gladly to ride Orion IV and I.

[redlinerider]

Cleveland's RTA is in love with Nabi, in 2006 they were operating at least 317 40-LFWs, with more on order and set to arrive. I personally don't like them but the drivers have no problem with them, at least the ones I talk to. They have air conditioning and run smooth.

All the operators have problems with the Flxibles, as one says: "You either have air conditioning on or you operate the bus, not both." She was chastizing a younger driver for having the AC on while operating the bus, which can cause it to break down." Also, as one bus driver pointed out to me about the RTS's "These things run like crap." The only buses any of the drivers like are the Novas (like the 6400s in Chicago) and the NABIs.

I personally love the Flxibles and RTS and think they're a good staple of transit operating, the NABIs are taking time but they're growing on me, the trip is pretty smooth on them I must say, at least in Cleveland.