#4000 Arrives

[tobuadantoq]

older NFs from Kedzie will ended up to go to 74th

[BusHunter]

I was also on 4005 last night, and noticed the problem with the rear door opening. I think that's something they'll have to tweak.

Then again, I spoke with a friend who drives buses for a different transit system, who also has New Flyers with the CLASS door technology (as well as the plain old push-bar activated doors), and he had some very unfavorable (and that's an understatement) comments regarding the reliability of CLASS.

So far this seems like the universal problem that needs to be ironed out. Did I mention #4001 and the pilot #4000 having the same problem but not as bad. A rider even said "can I get out" after she pressed the doors and nothing happened. BTW, to answer Gene King's question above the driver of #4005 got up and flipped the switch in the top right corner of the bus when he saw his passengers having a problem with the door. Unfortunately this just turns the door on and off and doesn't activate it. So if he could open the door other than turning the light on he sure didn't know how to do it. I'll tell you if they don't have this feature they need it to assist in opening these doors. This could really solve this door problem. On the other hand, the BRT's will have to have this feature. It's possible there in a different class of buses like the last 50 as Busjack has said in the past.

[Busjack]

It's possible there in a different class of buses as Busjack has said in the past.

Especially if both doors are to be used for loading at the paid "station" areas.

I surprised that an "open" as opposed to an "unlock" position isn't on the driver's door control handle.

CTA shouldn't (but probably will) continue accepting buses with the CLASS system if these problems appear endemic. You would think it learned its lessons with the door engine problems on the NABIs.

[MT0851]

There is a switch that enables the driver to be able to open the rear doors just by turn the door knob, it's labeled as "rear door override", it should be located on the side consol. The switch that is up behind the destination sign is the "Door Master" switch, which disables the rear door transmission interlock. Basicly when the "Door Master" switch is hit, the rear door transmission interlock disables and enables the bus to move while the rear doors are still closing, however it forcs the rear doors shut no matter what.

The door master switch was used a couple times during this video I took onbaord a Mississauga Transit D60LFR, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKO7og6jj3Q

[Busjack]

There is a switch that enables the driver to be able to open the rear doors just by turn the door knob, it's labeled as "rear door override", it should be located on the side consol. The switch that is up behind the destination sign is the "Door Master" switch, which disables the rear door transmission interlock. Basicly when the "Door Master" switch is hit, the rear door transmission interlock disables and enables the bus to move while the rear doors are still closing, however it forcs the rear doors shut no matter what.

The door master switch was used a couple times during this video I took onbaord a Mississauga Transit D60LFR, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKO7og6jj3Q

Probably correct about the function of the switches, but the bus in the YouTube looks like it has touch bars.

[MT0851]

Probably correct about the function of the switches, but the bus in the YouTube looks like it has touch bars.

What difference does it make? Both switches come on all NFI buses, no matter what kind of system is used on the rear doors.

[Busjack]

What difference does it make? Both switches come on all NFI buses, no matter what kind of system is used on the rear doors.

The difference is that the CLASS is what is accused of malfunctioning. The location of the switch is only relevant to the workaround.

CTA has had touchbars for at least 30 years, and there was no complaint (that I know of) that they didn't work.

Now if you are saying that there is nothing wrong with the CLASS, but with the interlock, that may be different, but that would be kind of hard to diagnose from 500 miles away.

[MT0851]

The difference is that the CLASS is what is accused of malfunctioning. The location of the switch is only relevant to the workaround.

CTA has had touchbars for at least 30 years, and there was no complaint (that I know of) that they didn't work.

Now if you are saying that there is nothing wrong with the CLASS, but with the interlock, that may be different, but that would be kind of hard to diagnose from 500 miles away.

I'm not talking about the CLASS system at all, my post was an answer to Gene King's question. He was asking if there's a switch that enables the driver to open the rear door by just turning the door control knob.

[BusHunter]

I'm not talking about the CLASS system at all, my post was an answer to Gene King's question. He was asking if there's a switch that enables the driver to open the rear door by just turning the door control knob.

I seen that myself last night. #4002's operator was opening the backdoors himself, so I guess the #4005 operator just wasn't familiar with the bus yet. I guess that would be the best way to use these doors, like a former #7300, until there is a remedy or alternate source for opening the doors. This got me thinking of other things. On a NABI, if someone holds the pushbar, a buzzer will continuosly sound in the drivers area. On #4000's there is no way to alert the driver hey I'm back here. If you don't make it to the door before it closes 100 percent to reset it, then you ride to the next stop as I observed using the doors this way.

[trainman8119]

BTW, Daerah's reporting was correct, the rear of #4001 and up are different. They have the rear number decal in the top center of the bus directly above the rear destination sign. It looks better not so crowded in like #4000's number looks.

I took a walk over to La Salle Street on Tuesday to get my first look at these buses

up close. I was able to see 4000, 4006 and 4002...and yes the back is different in

that there are no engine/ac vents on the back end...the back is a solid panel with

the number at the top...somewhat reminiscent of how the original 7000 MAN series buses

were way back when. Also, it seems, seeing this in person, that the front part is shorter with the rear being longer...when in the past it was the other way around. It could be an optical illusion

but that is how it appeared.

I was not able to comprehend what I was seeing as I was looking at it, but are perhaps

the battery components in the back end instead of being on the top as previous hybrids,

with the a/c units being on top. Looking at the pic of 4000, I still can't figure out if those

are a/c units on top or not...and if they are battery packs, why have them over both

parts of the articulation ?

[Busjack]

I was not able to comprehend what I was seeing as I was looking at it, but are perhaps

the battery components in the back end instead of being on the top as previous hybrids,

with the a/c units being on top. Looking at the pic of 4000, I still can't figure out if those

are a/c units on top or not...and if they are battery packs, why have them over both

parts of the articulation ?

Very strange that 4000 would not be "just like the others" as Big Bird or Maria would say.

The clips on the top of the roof pod in Kevin's pictures would seem to indicate that something accessible was inside, and one would assume that was the batteries. From the pictures, it looks like the clips are only on the front pod.

Of course, if one wants to camp out in a LaSalle Street high rise near the relevant time, one could see if there were fans on the tops of the enclosures, which would tend to indicate air conditioning.

I looked for Web pictures of Seattle's, but couldn't find any of the rear. The New Flyer specifications indicate "roof mount" and "low profile" options.

[trainman8119]

I am not sure if we can totally count the 4000 in the pic, since that bus does

have the vents on the rear end and the others don't. But in the pics of 4000

it does look like the "bubbles" on top are designed slightly different.

My main point I guess, is that something is containied in the rear of 4001 and

above that doesn't need to "breathe"...thus, the a/c unit is definitely not in that

area and I just surmized that perhaps it was the battery pack or something.

[Busjack]

At least I captured a situation where 3 were in a row, southbound, although the northbound seemed to have a number of holes.

[MT0851]

I was not able to comprehend what I was seeing as I was looking at it, but are perhaps

the battery components in the back end instead of being on the top as previous hybrids,

with the a/c units being on top. Looking at the pic of 4000, I still can't figure out if those

are a/c units on top or not...and if they are battery packs, why have them over both

parts of the articulation ?

The battery packs are on the rear section's roof, while the HVAC compressors and blowers for the front section are on the roof of the front section. The blowers for the rear section of the bus are located in the rear end and since the compressors are located on the roof of the tractor section, there's no need for vents at the back of the bus.

4000 has roof mounted HVAC compressors too, so I don't know why it has vents on the rear end. Seattle's first DE60LF also came the exact same way (Had vents on the rear while the rest of the units didn't).

[BusHunter]

For what it's worth, one of the new #4000 arrivals last week has only 750 miles on it. This would tend to support the notion that these were also driven from Minn. , not delivered on flatbeds as was mentioned on here about the NABI's. I guess we can look for these too on the highway. :)

[renardo870]

Any word on the 13 additional artics from the Durbin grant?

[Anonymous Guy]

Any update on the interior shots?

[Buslover88]

Any word on the 13 additional artics from the Durbin grant?

Any update on the interior shots?

No.

[daerah]

I managed to get my hands on #4000 the other morning. I definitely noticed a difference from the NABI artic. most noticeable, the turning is a lot better and sharper. I dont like the back door operation,...the driver/passenger switch...they need to fine tune that. I might have to inquire about operator suggestion....and I dont like that it doesnt have the driver shield that the 1600-1900 series have, or even the ones that 1000-1200s have. other than that..I love the bus.

Notice the rear end of 4001...(4001 through 4006) so far has the same rear end

4000 has the rear end (HVAC ventilation) of the 1000 series (1000-1900 so far) which makes no sense, because the HVAC unit is on the top of the front portion of the bus, like 5800 flyers are. Which is probably why new flyer left that out, on future models.

[MT0851]

4000 has the rear end (HVAC ventilation) of the 1000 series (1000-1900 so far) which makes no sense, because the HVAC unit is on the top of the front portion of the bus, like 5800 flyers are. Which is probably why new flyer left that out, on future models.

Of course it has ventilation in the rear for the trailer section, however the compressors for the hole HVAC system is located on the tractor's section roof, if they weren't there it wouldn't have the extended box like it has. It's a NFI standard on artics, they haven't offered the compressors located in the rear since late 2005. The only reason for buses to have vents there is because the compressors for HVAC system produce mass ammounts of heat that need to be expelled. And all NFI artics come with HVAC compressors on the trailer section's roof, so there's no need for them on 4000 and if anything it was just a minor production error.

[Busjack]

Of course it has ventilation in the rear for the trailer section, however the compressors for the hole HVAC system is located on the tractor's section roof, if they weren't there it wouldn't have the extended box like it has. It's a NFI standard on artics, they haven't offered the compressors located in the rear since late 2005. The only reason for buses to have vents there is because the compressors for HVAC system produce mass ammounts of heat that need to be expelled. And all NFI artics come with HVAC compressors on the trailer section's roof, so there's no need for them on 4000 and if anything it was just a minor production error.

So, which is it? And of what relevance is the tractor or trailer roof, since the bus is a pusher?

Daerah says it is the front, and since he drives them, so, I guess that is what it is.

But that would get us back to the question that if the AC is on the roof, what is in the back? Otherwise, CTA's policy would have been to put a window there.

By the way, good pictures. They also show that the fatso seats were installed at the factory, instead of the retrofit needed on a bunch of the 1000s, and the longitudinal arrangement.

[daerah]

So, which is it? And of what relevance is the tractor or trailer roof, since the bus is a pusher?

Daerah says it is the front, and since he drives them, so, I guess that is what it is.

But that would get us back to the question that if the AC is on the roof, what is in the back? Otherwise, CTA's policy would have been to put a window there.

By the way, good pictures. They also show that the fatso seats were installed at the factory, instead of the retrofit needed on a bunch of the 1000s, and the longitudinal arrangement.

The A/C - Heating & Interior Ventilation is positioned in the front portion of the bus...if you look inside bus, towards the front on the ceiling...you'll see the vent air intake compartment.

The Hybrid mechanism and technology is positioned in rear portion of the bus, which makes logical sense, since the engine is in the rear of the bus. Similar to CNG and LNG technology.

I'll get more pictures once the vehicle is available to me again.

[sw4400]

The A/C - Heating & Interior Ventilation is positioned in the front portion of the bus...if you look inside bus, towards the front on the ceiling...you'll see the vent air intake compartment.

The Hybrid mechanism and technology is positioned in rear portion of the bus, which makes logical sense, since the engine is in the rear of the bus. Similar to CNG and LNG technology.

I'll get more pictures once the vehicle is available to me again.

Thanks for clearing that up, daerah . After viewing the pics that Kevin has, including the one showing the grate on the rear top portion of the bus made me think that as well. Also, being a seasoned 5800-Series New Flyer rider, I know that any roof-mounted HVAC unit on a New Flyer probably doesn't have any dark grates like the rear of the 4000-Series New Flyers do.

[daerah]

As an update, or sort of an update...what I've been told from a pretty reliable source from the maintenance department... he states that the 4000 series buses won't be used for the cta's BRT service... supposedly the recent announcement of 58 60 ft/artics from New Flyer will be the uniquely designed styled buses used for the implementation of BRT. I dont know how true that is...just rumored for now. stay tuned on that.

Which it could be true...they are leasing the 4000s and they are 'babied" to the highest extent. By being placed on certain routes... primarily 156...I was lucky to have it on the 134 the other day. Whenever they return to the garage, a thorough inspection (body and engine compartment) is conducted before we can release the bus back to maintenance to be reassigned.

I made a comical comment to one guy checking the bus...

Me "What, you don't trust us?"

..."Hehe, Nope, we have to check these buses out"

Me "Haha, you guys don't check out the other new buses like this, (1600-1700)

..."This bus is leased, we have to keep it in good shape man, nothing personal"

Me"wow, ok"

haha

[Busjack]

As an update, or sort of an update...what I've been told from a pretty reliable source from the maintenance department... he states that the 4000 series buses won't be used for the cta's BRT service... supposedly the recent announcement of 58 60 ft/artics from New Flyer will be the uniquely designed styled buses used for the implementation of BRT. I dont know how true that is...just rumored for now. stay tuned on that.

Which it could be true...they are leasing the 4000s and they are 'babied" to the highest extent. By being placed on certain routes... primarily 156...I was lucky to have it on the 134 the other day. Whenever they return to the garage, a thorough inspection (body and engine compartment) is conducted before we can release the bus back to maintenance to be reassigned.

Thanks for some good information.

I can understand them being "babied" at this point, but probably for the reason pointed out by BusHunter that they are in effect prototypes and need to be shaken out to find any problems (such as the one reported about the doors).

Also, you saying that you had one on 134 explains why not all consistently show up on BusTracker.

However, as a general observation (and I would appreciate if you comment on it), does CTA get the most out of these buses by just putting them on rush hour runs, given that the intent was to save fuel? Or does that just indicate that this assignment is temporary, and, as confidence builds, they will go out on all-day runs?