South Loop and N201 changes

[Busjack]

This was just posted in a news release.

A couple of observations:

• It appears that they are already making some accommodation to the "growing Roosevelt Commercial Area" by rerouting 12 and 18, even before the planned extension of 44.
  
• The 18 seems to go back to the 14th-16th streetcar routing. What goes around comes back.
  
• While admittedly that's the end of Michael Reese, I thought that the reason 35 was extended up there was to give service to the part of Lake Meadows not served after the Drexel-Hyde Park bus was cancelled. Is CTA assuming that they can walk to King Dr.?
  

Also, this seems to deal with a couple of anachronisms. Does anyone know why they were originally set up in the former manner:

• N201 to Granville. I understand that Granville is accessible and Howard was not, but why didn't it end at Loyola?
  
• 3 partially routed on Indiana north of 16th. What was the reason for that?
  

[nextstopchicago]

This was just posted in a news release.

Also, this seems to deal with a couple of anachronisms. Does anyone know why they were originally set up in the former manner:

• N201 to Granville. I understand that Granville is accessible and Howard was not, but why didn't it end at Loyola?
  
• 3 partially routed on Indiana north of 16th. What was the reason for that?
  

The cynic in me thinks the 3 was routed on Indiana to pass close to the Mayor's house, not at the mayor's insistence, but by some lackey who thought it would please him. There used to a bus that ran on Union, or some ridiculous little street in Bridgeport, that I considered the city-worker Special.

As to the 201N, I never understood the Granville terminus, back when I used to occasionally take it. It might be that they expected to have the bus sit at the southern end of the line, and had no room for it on Sheridan, so it was easier to have it layover at Granville

[jajuan]

This was just posted in a news release.

A couple of observations:

• It appears that they are already making some accommodation to the "growing Roosevelt Commercial Area" by rerouting 12 and 18, even before the planned extension of 44.
  
• The 18 seems to go back to the 14th-16th streetcar routing. What goes around comes back.
  
• While admittedly that's the end of Michael Reese, I thought that the reason 35 was extended up there was to give service to the part of Lake Meadows not served after the Drexel-Hyde Park bus was cancelled. Is CTA assuming that they can walk to King Dr.?
  

Also, this seems to deal with a couple of anachronisms. Does anyone know why they were originally set up in the former manner:

• N201 to Granville. I understand that Granville is accessible and Howard was not, but why didn't it end at Loyola?
  
• 3 partially routed on Indiana north of 16th. What was the reason for that?
  

My only complaint would be, thanks a lot CTA for making my trip to Adler Plantetarium a 2 ride trip again instead of the 1 ride trip that's become such a really big convenience for me. Is this seen as some way of alleviating the bunching on this route. Good luck. The big problem WB is not terminating at the Museum Campus. It's having passengers from three rail lines transferring onto this route. How about bringing back the short runs between Indiana and Western.

[CircleSeven]

I guess my only complaint on this new 12 is that now the route will reverse the Indiana routing instead of going southbound on Michigan (which, to me would be better), the bus will go south on Indiana, and while some passengers that take the 3 & 4 from Michigan & 6 & 14 from Columbus and walk down the bridge, folks would have to cross the street and catch the 12 at the far side stop instead of the near side stop. Either way, once again, I love that Indiana will once again be the primary east terminus.

As for Busjack's question about why didn't the N201 didn't terminate at Loyola, where would they turn around at? They wouldn't have those buses go on residential streets and go out at Devon and returning back north on Sheridan. I guess that's the reason why it went down south on Sheridan to Granville and back north on Broadway. It will be the first time that they'll be no buses between Howard & Hermitage and Granville & Sheridan during off-#147 hours.

I wonder if Kedzie would still do the #146 Extras when Soldier Field have events or concerts at Northerly Island (formely Meigs Field). I also wonder (hopefully we'll see the schedules before the end of the year) if they will also get rid of the 3 King Drive Trips down 31st on other trips outside of buses going all the way down Michigan Avenue. That alone would be a strong improve for the 3.

And do we really need all these buses on Roosevelt? Maybe the 146 would do well, but doubt that it would get more riders on the 18 or the 129 (especially having the route ending where the #21 is currently terminating.)

[trainman8119]

You know I could accept some of these changes a lot better if there were

still transfers. Yes I know with the cards, you get a break. But there is promotion

at how much the service will be there, but what is not said is that you are

ultimately paying for it.

And there is a little bit of a contradiction in the statement that the 3 will be

more efficient because it won't be making turns...while at the same time

saying that there will be more people to pick up by staying on Michigan Ave

(therefore eliminating any time potentially saved). Sometimes, things are

left better unsaid.

[cta_44499_FG]

This was just posted in a news release.

A couple of observations:

• It appears that they are already making some accommodation to the "growing Roosevelt Commercial Area" by rerouting 12 and 18, even before the planned extension of 44.
  
• The 18 seems to go back to the 14th-16th streetcar routing. What goes around comes back.
  
• While admittedly that's the end of Michael Reese, I thought that the reason 35 was extended up there was to give service to the part of Lake Meadows not served after the Drexel-Hyde Park bus was cancelled. Is CTA assuming that they can walk to King Dr.?
  

Also, this seems to deal with a couple of anachronisms. Does anyone know why they were originally set up in the former manner:

• N201 to Granville. I understand that Granville is accessible and Howard was not, but why didn't it end at Loyola?
  
• 3 partially routed on Indiana north of 16th. What was the reason for that?
  

I suppose i could tackle this one now that I am transitioned full-time, and also back at North Park (thus obsoleting my screen name).

I never quite grasped why the N201 terminated at Granville Red Line either. This change will remove bus service from that small strip, however with the Red Line parallel to Sheridan I'm sure the few that travel via street may miss it. I wasn't aware of Granville being accessible though. Never saw a wheelchair on the N201 anyhow, at the most 6-10 passengers the entire night...if that. The only somewhat work to an extent was the last run which was from Granville to Old Orchard, combining the southern tail of the nite owl with the regular route. Technically speaking, the 201 is not an 'N' route as the last bus from both ends is at 20:00. Hence, the N201 is technically a separate line. Now if CTA were to provide service longer on the regular route, the resort to the 'N' routing after a certain hour, then it would be a 24-hr route (as redunant as the 8 not being a nite owl because of the over 30 minute gap between first/last busses).

One route I think the CTA should make adjustments to is 147 on Sundays. Is it necessary to terminate it so early and extend the 151 to Howard thereafter? Why not expand the hours on Sundays also, which is just as busy as a Saturday? The 147 is mainly artics, while the 151 is mainly 40 ftrs, with the exception of the last few Sunday 147s which magically become 151s at Howard. These busses get creamed once the 147 ends for the night, speaking from my own experience operating this line.

Just some thoughts...

[Busjack]

I was also sort of thinking about whether the N201 had any riders within Chicago when the 147/151 wasn't running, but 44499 mentioning that only about 6 or 10 ride all night indicates that probably isn't the case, and the Red Line is only a couple of blocks west.

Even though the stated purpose of the N201 was to replace the Purple Line when 24 hour service ended, I would bet that probably its primary (and maybe only) function is to serve Evanston Hospital, at the end of the night route.

[ArcherRider]

I support 44499 extended #147 to midnight on Sundays because #151 is too slow and crowded.

[cta_44499_FG]

I was also sort of thinking about whether the N201 had any riders within Chicago when the 147/151 wasn't running, but 44499 mentioning that only about 6 or 10 ride all night indicates that probably isn't the case, and the Red Line is only a couple of blocks west.

Even though the stated purpose of the N201 was to replace the Purple Line when 24 hour service ended, I would bet that probably its primary (and maybe only) function is to serve Evanston Hospital, at the end of the night route.

This may be.....so what does someone at the Linden/Wilmette terminus do to gain access to the system at those hours....assuming anyone at that hour would.

[Busjack]

This may be.....so what does someone at the Linden/Wilmette terminus do to gain access to the system at those hours....assuming anyone at that hour would.

Well, since 1997 there hasn't been a way.

From the reports of the homeowner with a gun on 4th Street, I suppose that service to there would mostly aid only the criminal element. There certainly isn't a late night traffic generator there, like Evanston Hospital, and no Pace service to Linden after 9:30.

[cta_44499_FG]

One route I think the CTA should make adjustments to is 147 on Sundays. Is it necessary to terminate it so early and extend the 151 to Howard thereafter? Why not expand the hours on Sundays also, which is just as busy as a Saturday? The 147 is mainly artics, while the 151 is mainly 40 ftrs, with the exception of the last few Sunday 147s which magically become 151s at Howard. These busses get creamed once the 147 ends for the night, speaking from my own experience operating this line.

Just some thoughts...

I was thinking more into this post, and might I add while extending the service hours on Sunday for the 147, I wouldn't necessarily rule out keeping the 151s to Howard as well. This might be a good thing as a supplement for the local traveling passengers. Weather or not it mite be good from a cost perspective is an entire different ballpark. I would indeed keep the Kedzie operated Belmont/Halsted short turns running a little later on the weekends due to the high level traveling to/from the loop for late night activity, but again....from a cost perspective determines if this was to actually take place.

As far as the N201 is concerned, it is what it is. I've wondered if operating the regular 201 on Sundays would generate any more ridership to such areas as downtown Evanston and Westfield Old Orchard, since Evanston has no bus service at all on Sundays (with the exception of the 97...which only operates along Evanston on Howard and Dodge before entering the town of Skokie via Oakton St.) So theoretically, Evanston has "some" service. It may generate something, it may not (then again, this is why CTA purchased the Optima busses...and we see how far that went)

[BusExpert32]

This set of service enhancements is scheduled to go into effect on December 28, 2008, but what about the other set? Isn't there a time table for those improvements? But one also has to take into consideration that more buses would be needed for the extension of the #44 and routes on 31st Street and east 83rd Street. Maybe a good portion of the 150 4000s will be used for increasing the fleet instead of replacing the 6000s, since these have changes already been approved.

Going away from the topic: why won't anyone consider to bring back the old #41 from the dead? It is a major improvement that should have been included.

[cta_44499_FG]

This set of service enhancements is scheduled to go into effect on December 28, 2008, but what about the other set? Isn't there a time table for those improvements? But one also has to take into consideration that more buses would be needed for the extension of the #44 and routes on 31st Street and east 83rd Street. Maybe a good portion of the 150 4000s will be used for increasing the fleet instead of replacing the 6000s, since these have changes already been approved.

Going away from the topic: why won't anyone consider to bring back the old #41 from the dead? It is a major improvement that should have been included.

Who knows. For one thing they're building a new grocery store near Elston and Lieb (next to the DMV and blocks from Forest Glen). The Clybourn area especially has come up. Who knows...maybe one day the 41 will rise again.

[Zol87]

Here's what I think.

#12: This will cause problems for those coming from the West Side who work or want to visit the Museum Campus. who want a single ride without transfers. Although, the South Loop could use a connector to the L. I recommend alternating between terminals. A:Museum Campus B:16th Indiana.

#18: I think the east end of the route should create a loop via Michigan Cermak 16th and Indiana. An Extension of the #44 up Canal to Roosevelt would work.

#21: This will provide better connections and a faster arrival for those who work at Mercy Hospital after transferring from the L.

#129: This will provide a better connection between the Union/Ogilvie Metra stations and McCormick Place.

#146: This is a better route, however there is still no connection between the Union/Ogilvie Metra stations and the Museum Campus.

#N201 This makes sense because the Red Line runs all night. From what I've seen the bus is basically empty south of the Howard CTA. I reccomend running the route all the way to Linden via Ridge, Isabella, 4th Street, Linden, Sheridan, Ridge. The N60 runs to the end of the Pink Line and so does the N20 for the Green Line. Why not do the same for the Purple Line?

[Busjack]

Here's what I think.

#12: This will cause problems for those coming from the West Side who work or want to visit the Museum Campus. who want a single ride without transfers. Although, the South Loop could use a connector to the L. I recommend alternating between terminals. A:Museum Campus B:16th Indiana.

#18: I think the east end of the route should create a loop via Michigan Cermak 16th and Indiana. An Extension of the #44 up Canal to Roosevelt would work.

Unless you are suggesting that CTA not follow its plan to route 18 on Roosevelt, you wouldn't need both. My reaction to your post is that 12 should be left alone and 18 extended down Indiana.

#146: This is a better route, however there is still no connection between the Union/Ogilvie Metra stations and the Museum Campus.

Before the beginning of the West Side restructuring/experiment, 127 went to the Museum Campus. (I remember one time when both 127 and 146 were run with MANs with nonworking signs, I got on the one other than intended.) Circle Seven dealt with that elsewhere, and there is still 130 on the weekends during the summer.

#N201 This makes sense because the Red Line runs all night. From what I've seen the bus is basically empty south of the Howard CTA. I reccomend running the route all the way to Linden via Ridge, Isabella, 4th Street, Linden, Sheridan, Ridge. The N60 runs to the end of the Pink Line and so does the N20 for the Green Line. Why not do the same for the Purple Line?

As I mentioned before, the only nightime traffic generator on that line is Evanston Hospital, where that bus terminates. See my prior message about facilitating the criminal element. You are suggesting running an empty (and presumably 40 foot) bus through narrow residential streets at night. No reason to tolerate that kind of nuisance to serve virtually no one.

This set of service enhancements is scheduled to go into effect on December 28, 2008, but what about the other set? Isn't there a time table for those improvements? But one also has to take into consideration that more buses would be needed for the extension of the #44 and routes on 31st Street and east 83rd Street. Maybe a good portion of the 150 4000s will be used for increasing the fleet instead of replacing the 6000s, since these have changes already been approved.

If you were referring to the RTA/JARC list (1, 44, 54A, 67, 83, 92) all that has been announced is that the RTA has approved those and other grant applications. CTA still hasn't announced that it has received the money and will implement the changes. And while that implies some fleet expansion, it doesn't seem like more than 4 or 5 buses. Stay tuned....

[cta_44499_FG]

Unless you are suggesting that CTA not follow its plan to route 18 on Roosevelt, you wouldn't need both. My reaction to your post is that 12 should be left alone and 18 extended down Indiana.

Before the beginning of the West Side restructuring/experiment, 127 went to the Museum Campus. (I remember one time when both 127 and 146 were run with MANs with nonworking signs, I got on the one other than intended.) Circle Seven dealt with that elsewhere, and there is still 130 on the weekends during the summer.

As I mentioned before, the only nightime traffic generator on that line is Evanston Hospital, where that bus terminates. See my prior message about facilitating the criminal element. You are suggesting running an empty (and presumably 40 foot) bus through narrow residential streets at night. No reason to tolerate that kind of nuisance to serve virtually no one.

If you were referring to the RTA/JARC list (1, 44, 54A, 67, 83, 92) all that has been announced is that the RTA has approved those and other grant applications. CTA still hasn't announced that it has received the money and will implement the changes. And while that implies some fleet expansion, it doesn't seem like more than 4 or 5 buses. Stay tuned....

Not to mention the fact that Evanston itself is dark as it is at night....Wilmette makes Evanston look lit up like a Christmas tree....literally. All a passenger needs is a lost operator.

One question I can pose on the 146 routing is weather or not it will remain the same for the early AM/late pm trips which terminate at Congress Plaza. Unless there is some way to turn the busses back near the Roosevelt L, would it make sense to run those busses all the way south and then back north up Columbus, and vice versa? Or would it make more sense to assume the Balbo routing as it is now?

[geneking7320]

I'm old enough to remember when #3 King Dr buses that didn't not go downtown would terminate at 30th street and layover by Dunbar High School. Since Michael Reese Hospital is closing [a stated reason for ending #35 service to Reese/Mercy] will "short" #3 King Dr buses continue to layover at 29th Place and Cottage Grove as at present?

Gene King

[BusExpert32]

If you were referring to the RTA/JARC list (1, 44, 54A, 67, 83, 92) all that has been announced is that the RTA has approved those and other grant applications. CTA still hasn't announced that it has received the money and will implement the changes. And while that implies some fleet expansion, it doesn't seem like more than 4 or 5 buses. Stay tuned....

I don't think 4 to 5 buses would be sufficient if the the 31, 83 and "new" 44 were to be approved and implemented by the CTA, unless there would be ridiculous bus gapping. However, I realize that it could possibly be zero buses if nothing occurs, which I believe would be for the worse.

[Busjack]

I don't think 4 to 5 buses would be sufficient if the the 31, 83 and "new" 44 were to be approved and implemented by the CTA, unless there would be ridiculous bus gapping. However, I realize that it could possibly be zero buses if nothing occurs, which I believe would be for the worse.

Now that you mention it, I didn't calculate in 31. If 31 had frequency similar to 55, it would need 8.

I figure that fleet additions are needed only if the additional bus runs are during the rush hour. By my definition, 1, 54A, and 92, since they only involve adding non-rush hour buses, wouldn't affect the fleet. 83 would be a short route and probably only need 2 buses. The extensions of 44 and 67 probably need 1 or 2 each to cover the about 2 miles added to each route.

Just explaining my method of estimating.

[rmadisonwi]

One question I can pose on the 146 routing is weather or not it will remain the same for the early AM/late pm trips which terminate at Congress Plaza. Unless there is some way to turn the busses back near the Roosevelt L, would it make sense to run those busses all the way south and then back north up Columbus, and vice versa? Or would it make more sense to assume the Balbo routing as it is now?

State - 11th - Wabash - Roosevelt. Layover westbound at the station.

[BusExpert32]

Now that you mention it, I didn't calculate in 31. If 31 had frequency similar to 55, it would need 8.

I figure that fleet additions are needed only if the additional bus runs are during the rush hour. By my definition, 1, 54A, and 92, since they only involve adding non-rush hour buses, wouldn't affect the fleet. 83 would be a short route and probably only need 2 buses. The extensions of 44 and 67 probably need 1 or 2 each to cover the about 2 miles added to each route.

Just explaining my method of estimating.

If the 31 would have 8 buses, the 67 and 44 extensions would need 5 to 6 buses total (in my opinion seems to be a bit more reasonable), and the 83 would need 2 or maybe 3, which leaves it at a grand total of 15-17 buses. 15-17 doesn't seem to be anything from a standpoint on the CTA, but Pace could open up a brand new facility with this amount. :o

[Busjack]

If the 31 would have 8 buses, the 67 and 44 extensions would need 5 to 6 buses total (in my opinion seems to be a bit more reasonable), and the 83 would need 2 or maybe 3, which leaves it at a grand total of 15-17 buses. 15-17 doesn't seem to be anything from a standpoint on the CTA, but Pace could open up a brand new facility with this amount.

Personally, I think you are a bit high, but since I came up with 13 and you 17, it doesn't make much of any difference.

The real interesting question (not yet disclosed) is whether the grants pay for equipment or just operating.

[artthouwill]

I thought the changes were to take place today. I saw 35th street buses still going to Reese/Mercy Hospitals.

[jajuan]

I thought the changes were to take place today. I saw 35th street buses still going to Reese/Mercy Hospitals.

No. The start of the South Loop and N201 changes is 12/28, the Sunday immediately after Christmas.

[cta_44499_FG]

No. The start of the South Loop and N201 changes is 12/28, the Sunday immediately after Christmas.

Aka the start of the next run pick. U are correct...you won!