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Whats is left for 1993 Orion 1s from Pace


qwantae
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they would need more. Waukegan Used to have only 1 school as a 4 year high.... now they reopened the east campus they need several... multiple runs on 561, 562, 564, 566, 569, 572, and local feeders. Even though, they used to use the Gilligs on them.

Which might be why they all the sudden need 6600s. Not to replace 2300s per se, but to cover other routes while the 2300s are on school duty. We'll also have to see what happens when the 580s undoubtedly bite it.
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Then maybe my original prediction could be correct. All the Eldos that are upcoming could end up in Joliet and the Nabis that are currently there could end up in Waukegan, especially if the school trippers are packed like they are. BTW, what does a 4 year high mean? What were the schools before?

Explanation on their site. One was 9th grade and the other 10-12. Apparently they reorganized the schools into small teams and distributed them among both buildings.

There is a similar deal at New Trier. New Trier West (apparently one of the most expensive schools ever built) was closed and used for community groups, then reopened as the "Northfield Campus" for 9th grade only. 10-12 go to New Trier East, and there is all the debate about having to rennovate it, while West is undoubtedly still underused.

Getting back to the bus topic, I don't see how redistributing the students per se changes the demand for buses (in that neither was previously a neighborhood school), but it seems from the schedules that there are similar "trippers" to the Rochester ones--start on one route, and suddenly become a 566. Of course, Pace has had similar runs, such as 423s originating or ending at various parochial schools.

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Strange that 2297 showed up in Waukegan (you usually think contractors are the end of the road).

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Also, in related interest, 6624 from Joliet to Waukegan

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6666 from Joliet to West

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and finally 6630 from Elgin to West, indicating (with 6661 seen at North) that no more NABIs at River

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Yesterday 6671 somehow appeared at the College of Lake County as the 570. I wonder if North is getting more 6600s.

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Which might be why they all the sudden need 6600s. Not to replace 2300s per se, but to cover other routes while the 2300s are on school duty. We'll also have to see what happens when the 580s undoubtedly bite it.

I rememeber riding a Gillig years ago on the #569 route. I wish we had them at Academy.

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I just went through Webwatch at the height of rush hour (between 7 & 7:30), there are a lot more 1993 Orions out there than I originally thought. I don't think the amount of Eldorados that are coming in will fully take out all the Orions, but I do think with some routes in trouble, it will be very close. Any that are left over will most likely be at a contractors site.

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I just went through Webwatch at the height of rush hour (between 7 & 7:30), there are a lot more 1993 Orions out there than I originally thought. I don't think the amount of Eldorados that are coming in will fully take out all the Orions, but I do think with some routes in trouble, it will be very close. Any that are left over will most likely be at a contractors site.

With maybe 11 buses on the street in Joliet out of 23 buses sighted as delivered out of 58 or up to 95 to come (cf. busfan2847's post) it is too early to tell. Also, the string has not yet been pulled on 714.

However, despite what some of us, including I, thought, it is improbable that any replacements will be direct, as indicated by most of Joliet's 6600s so far going to West. It is pretty clear that the Ikarus buses are gone, and thus West doesn't have anything else to retire. Thus, with regard to the 3 Nova Classics, the theory is not so much whether SW needed them, as that W didn't need a 3 bus series. I still think that replacements in NS will be direct, since that division has more than enough 40 footers (2390s and 6200s) to cover any route that has significant ridership.

My main concerns are:

  • If some divisions go pretty much all Orion VI (NW and SW) while others go pretty much all NABI (S and W) there eventually will be those that need all of their buses replaced at once.
  • As I mentioned when Aurora first got its 2600s, it appears that the purchase of the 6600s was a mistake. Depending on what happens to the last few in Joliet, the only place that originally received them that still has them is South, and, at the time, everyone said that South getting them was a mistake (although they might be the right size for out of Chicago Heights, and the routes started in the restructuring). However, they are now virtually all gone from Aurora, Highland Park, Elgin, and now Joliet.
  • If there is a role for a 35 foot bus (one with a back door has the same seating capacity as an ElDorado 30 footer, and potentially less, since seats can be put over the EdDo's wheelwells), if any are purchased, should they be the lighter weight ones (ElDo, Optima) instead of those based on a heavier transit (New Flyer, NABI, Gillig)?
  • Finally, it appears that the main factor driving the need for 40 footers in outlying areas is school runs, especially in Waukegan, but also probably elsewhere. There aren't that many Pace routes with the ridership of 270, 290, 352, 364, or 381.

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The only reason I can think of as to why 35 foot Nabis aren't so much a mistake is the back door, especially on some of the school trippers. I've never been a fan of the driver opening up the back door of any of the Nabi buses and the 2000 Orions. To me it takes more time because sometimes they are slow to close. Should have been like the 93 Orions and older buses, put the green light in the back and let passengers go out themselves. But that's beside the point. The thing about the above mention routes, all 5 of them connect to a heavy CTA station which connects to downtown, that's the main reason why they are so crowded. Most other routes it's hit or miss as far as crowds. Yes probably x-mas time you'll see higher numbers, but 40-footers don't seem to work all that well overall based on ridership and the 35 foot Nabis don't seem to work out that well either unless you like cushion seats. But it's hard to tell because I used to ride the 309 to Elmhurst during morning rush hour when my car was down and that bus was almost always packed until you got past Mannheim Rd. West doesn't need any more buses, I haven't seen an Ikarus bus in months and none showed up on Webwatch this morning so I know they are gone. Another scenerio could be to send some Nabis or Eldos to SW to cover lighter routes and send the Orions north. By the way, Webwatch showed bus 6627 @ West on route 313 this morning and I'm almost sure I saw that bus at Joliet not too long ago.

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... By the way, Webwatch showed bus 6627 @ West on route 313 this morning and I'm almost sure I saw that bus at Joliet not too long ago.

As I mentioned several times, 6627, 6628, and 6680 went to W in March. The only news would be is when 6626 shows up somewhere other than Joliet.

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Not sure if anyone has caught up to this, and maybe I will address this in a separate thread: Has anyone thought of, or heard of, potential service cuts with the incoming budget hearings later this year? I would assert if that goes through, then we might have buses that are free to move around the system...

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Not sure if anyone has caught up to this, and maybe I will address this in a separate thread: Has anyone thought of, or heard of, potential service cuts with the incoming budget hearings later this year? I would assert if that goes through, then we might have buses that are free to move around the system...

The budget hearings would only indicate what the expected funding and recovery ratios would be. Certain routes might fall below the funding standards, but, unless they were going to hold hearings on a doomsday scenario, which happened in 2007, but which I don't expect here, there probably would be individual hearings on individual routes, as Pace has usually done (or a distinct group of routes, like the 580s). There are, of course, the big hearings on restructurings, but that doesn't seem contemplated by your question.

The big hearing, of course, is what they are going to do about the paratransit deficit, but that doesn't come within the scope of your question, either.

In any event, the notice of hearing would have to indicate what is contemplated. And, based on the minutes, only Michael Bolton or T.J. Ross would know what they intend to ask the Board to put out for hearing.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Putting this back in a better thread

...

Considering jesi's lists, the only ones I am convinced are completely dead are the previous listed: 2308, 2309, 2322, 2329, 2331, 2342, 2361, 2373, 2376, plus add to the list based on reports here 2325 and 2307. That would be 11 40-footers. jesi's list would put another 5 40-footers at least off the budget. That accounts for 16, but to get to 70, there would have to be at least another 9 off the roster.

Considering the list of those for sale advertised today, those that are or have previously been officially listed for sale are:

2294, 2295, 2296, 2299, 2304, 2307, 2308, 2309,* 2322, 2325,* 2327, 2329, 2331, 2342, 2346, 2361, 2373, 2376, 2377.

*Drivers from South reported them dead a couple of years ago, but they are now just being sold.

None of the 35 footers is on this list, expectedly. Based on jesi's Ravinia update, those on Ravinia service consist of 4 35 footers, and 5 2300s.

That would indicate 28 of 107 "hammerheads" are definitely out of normal service.

Of the 40 footers, this accounts for 24 of 86. This results in 62, which is below the budget number 70.

Finally, it looks like the ones that started at South, then went to SW, and then Academy (roughly the fates of 2292-2320, although there are exceptions), or started in North and may have stayed there or went elsewhere (2321-2339) fell apart first, although there are also casualties to those initially assigned to NS (2340-2349) and NW (2340-2377), again, especially the NW ones that landed at Academy.

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Finding one in 62 remaining Orion I 40 footers, especially at N, NS, and NW shouldn't be that hard at the moment. However, the one on 423 is generally only one of 5 buses on that route. But it looks like time is running out on the Orion Is and Nova Classics a bit sooner than some would have thought.

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Finding one in 62 remaining Orion I 40 footers, especially at N, NS, and NW shouldn't be that hard at the moment. However, the one on 423 is generally only one of 5 buses on that route. But it looks like time is running out on the Orion Is and Nova Classics a bit sooner than some would have thought.

Took a trip to First Student in Westmont and hung around the Naperville Metra Station around rush hour. Here are the Orions that are still loose: 2273, 2274, 2275, 2276, 2277, 2283, & 2291 are all at Westmont. All were parked there around 1pm. If there are any more there, I didn't see them. So these buses run either Lisle, Westmont, or Clarendon Hills (none of those routes of which show up on Webwatch). As far as Naperville, 2305, 2316, and 2317 are still there. I was shocked to see 2305, that's a bus that used to run route 715 and worked out of First Student in Glen Ellyn. I thought for sure it was dead, but apparently it's not.

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Pace North has a school contract to haul kids to and from the high schools. That is the usual assignments for the 2300s (And bus 2297, an Ex-Northshore Division bus). Rarely will you see them in regular service.

The 2300s are also used in occasional training service. Me and the drivers like to joke that you break in the new drivers on these old buses, because if they can keep a 2300 running, especially 2335 or 2337, a NABI is a snap.

From North, 2331 (We nicknamed it 'Old Smoky' due to the absurd volumes of black smoke it put out) was retired, and its engine put into 2329, which quickly got names 'New Smoky'. 2329 ran briefly with the new engine, until it started leaking diesel fumes into the passenger section. It was then retired. Mechanics then found there was oil clogs in the engine.

We think 2335 will be the next one to go, as it runs so bad, we nicknamed it 'Junkwagon' (A name now used for all of North's Orion I's.).

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