New Express Routes Coming Soon.

[Busjack]

Since you mentioned this, how can a standard bus run this? Wouldn't any bus that ran on a shoulder, be branded "express" and could only serve those routes? While they might get away with no special bus now, I don't see how it could work with bos.

It isn't BOS, it is just a step toward implementing it.

At 6 a.m., traffic conditions don't justify running on the shoulder, anyway (not allowed to run more than 35 mph on the shoulder, and traffic on the expressway must be more clogged than 35 mph).

[MetroShadow]

Not sure how that's relevant to this, as both were shuttle routes, not express ones.

 

Standard buses have run there, but they are now the Axess Express buses, which BusHunter said should also be on 618.

As shuttle bug routes (and deferring to Renardo's question), it's whatever was available. Standard equipment would run in most cases for Shuttle Bug, but there are exceptions.

877, 888, 890, 891, and 892 have run with Standard equipment over those longer distances.

[NewFlyerMCI]

As shuttle bug routes (and deferring to Renardo's question), it's whatever was available. Standard equipment would run in most cases for Shuttle Bug, but there are exceptions.

877, 888, 890, 891, and 892 have run with Standard equipment over those longer distances.

Do 895 and 757 fit the criteria of the routes you listed? (I almost put 747 up there, the map and schedule links are still active and the schedule link for 737 is still active too.) 

[Busjack]

Do 895 and 757 fit the criteria of the routes you listed? (I almost put 747 up there, the map and schedule links are still active and the schedule link for 737 is still active too.) 

895 is certainly express on the Tollway between 95th St. and either Rosemont or Schaumburg.

757 isn't as long, but does have an express portion on I-290 between Forest Park and Ill. 83.

[BusHunter]

Here's something i found on the pace website, a service map of the I-90 corridor expansion. It says service will start about a year from now. (I thought they said 2017 before) Only question is what will they use for buses?

http://pacebus.com/pdf/on_board_newsletter/onBoard5.pdf

Edited November 7, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

Here's something i found on the pace website, a service map of the I-90 corridor expansion. It says service will start about a year from now. (I thought they said 2017 before) Only question is what will they use for buses?

http://pacebus.com/pdf/on_board_newsletter/onBoard5.pdf

If you looked at the date, that's a year old, and already discussed. If anything, the 2016 budget would have better clues.

[BusHunter]

If you looked at the date, that's a year old, and already discussed. If anything, the 2016 budget would have better clues.

It might be old but has some interesting ideas like a route 53 corridor from Dundee to Lake. I didn't know this was a part of this and that wasn't mentioned on here. Plus they will have feeders in Elgin that with run to these Park N' Rides. You see how putting out a map, even if it is a proposal, makes clear statements and doesn't lead to questions.

[Busjack]

It might be old but has some interesting ideas like a route 53 corridor from Dundee to Lake. I didn't know this was a part of this and that wasn't mentioned on here. Plus they will have feeders in Elgin that with run to these Park N' Rides. You see how putting out a map, even if it is a proposal, makes clear statements and doesn't lead to questions.

At least the 2 route 53 routes were discussed, including my statement that if 699 didn't work, how would this Palatine route work without a huge P&R lot at Dundee.

[west towns]

My guess is the route from Dundee will work as 699 was too long and slow, this route will serve the lower income apartments on Dundee and in the area.   Who knows, maybe there is a p&r planned, doesn't have to be built could be  a leased lot like they do in Naperville with the church lots.

[Tcmetro]

There is more updated information in the CMAQ Grant application packet that Pace submitted to CMAP earlier this year.

600 - Rosemont - NW Trans. Center - expanded to all day weekday and Saturday service.

604 - Dundee/IL 53 - NW Trans. Center - weekday service.

605 - Randall Rd/I-90 - Rosemont - weekday and Saturday service.

607 - Randall Rd/I-90 - NW Trans. Center - weekday and Saturday service. Described as a branch of #605.

608 - Roselle - NW Trans. Center - weekday service.

609 - Barrington Rd - Hoffman Estates - "all day" service.

610 - Prairie Stone - Rosemont - When new park and rides are opened, Prairie Stone P&R will be evaluated for continued operation.

611 - NW Trans. Center - N Schaumburg - weekday and Saturday service.

The map of I-90 shows corridor stops at Randall Rd, IL 25, Prairie Stone/IL 59, and Barrington Rd. The Barrington Rd station will be on the tollway.

http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/396493/TI13164167+Pace-I-90.pdf/fa83e53e-a811-49c0-9ad9-1c2fd00e1f6b

--

Well I can't say that I'm well acquainted with the transit service here, it seems that there is too much service being proposed. For instance, it would probably be useful to combine the 600 and 607 services on Saturdays and extend the route into Elgin, in lieu of operating the 605. Enough money could probably be saved to run the 600/607 combo on Sundays too.

[Pace831]

29 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

There is more updated information in the CMAQ Grant application packet that Pace submitted to CMAP earlier this year.

600 - Rosemont - NW Trans. Center - expanded to all day weekday and Saturday service.

604 - Dundee/IL 53 - NW Trans. Center - weekday service.

605 - Randall Rd/I-90 - Rosemont - weekday and Saturday service.

607 - Randall Rd/I-90 - NW Trans. Center - weekday and Saturday service. Described as a branch of #605.

608 - Roselle - NW Trans. Center - weekday service.

609 - Barrington Rd - Hoffman Estates - "all day" service.

610 - Prairie Stone - Rosemont - When new park and rides are opened, Prairie Stone P&R will be evaluated for continued operation.

611 - NW Trans. Center - N Schaumburg - weekday and Saturday service.

The map of I-90 shows corridor stops at Randall Rd, IL 25, Prairie Stone/IL 59, and Barrington Rd. The Barrington Rd station will be on the tollway.

http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/396493/TI13164167+Pace-I-90.pdf/fa83e53e-a811-49c0-9ad9-1c2fd00e1f6b

--

Well I can't say that I'm well acquainted with the transit service here, it seems that there is too much service being proposed. For instance, it would probably be useful to combine the 600 and 607 services on Saturdays and extend the route into Elgin, in lieu of operating the 605. Enough money could probably be saved to run the 600/607 combo on Sundays too.

I agree that seems like overkill. 605 just doesn't seem justifiable unless as a rush hour only route. At other times, the 600/607 connection (possibly interlined as you suggested) is probably enough to handle all the riders.

How do you propose extending the route to Elgin? Interlined with 543 or 550 (the latter doesn't currently run on Saturday) or a separate routing of 607?

[MetroShadow]

29 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

I agree that seems like overkill. 605 just doesn't seem justifiable unless as a rush hour only route. At other times, the 600/607 connection (possibly interlined as you suggested) is probably enough to handle all the riders.

How do you propose extending the route to Elgin? Interlined with 543 or 550 (the latter doesn't currently run on Saturday) or a separate routing of 607?

To my understanding, no interlining (but perhaps utilizing both Elgin Locals and marketing them both).

[Pace831]

Another thought I had is that 605 should stop at Northwest Point Park-n-Ride, at least during the rush hour. Just having the one "reverse" 616 trip for those commuting from there to the Blue line leaves that lot underutilized. Having 605 stop there would improve access for traditional commutes to downtown, as well as create more opportunities for rush hour commutes between suburbs. Northwest Point is a rush hour destination and also has connections to 616/757.

[BusHunter]

I don't get it, if they have direct service Randall rd to Rosemont, why have a Randall rd to Schaumburg? Is Schaumburg the destination for many far NW riders? I see what they are doing here. They are making the #600 a main line, like a blue line if you will, and the feeders are all feeding into it at Schaumburg. The #600 makes sense as 3/4 of the #606 ridership goes to Woodfield, although this bus doesn't serve Woodfield directly. I would change the service a little by adding a stop or two on the way from the I-53 ramp to the NWTC. Also they could tap into additional parking at the southeast corner of the Woodfield property. Question is if they have 5 routes feeding into the #600, whether they have enough #600 service because theoretically if the other routes are successful it then has 5 times the service it had.

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

609 - Barrington Rd - Hoffman Estates - "all day" service.

 

8 hours ago, Pace831 said:

611 - NW Trans. Center - N Schaumburg - weekday and Saturday service.

The rest are old. These two are new. 609 is clearly only a Barrington Road Park and Ride feeder. The question is that there were a couple of Barrington Road Hot Line routes (557 and 558) to Metra stations, and as employment dried up so did the routes.

611 sounds like they want to make the Flex part of 895 into a separate route.

 

18 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I don't get it, if they have direct service Randall rd to Rosemont, why have a Randall rd to Schaumburg? Is Schaumburg the destination for many far NW riders?

Two points:

• Maybe they think the 554 market could be better served (especially the Corporate Center), and in that regard, it makes connections to other routes, including 606, 611 and 696.
• 607 makes stops at various Park and Rides, while 605 presumably runs express from Randall Rd. to Rosemont. Not mach different than splitting 755/855.

I don't have the numbers for 610, but did anyone think 2 years ago that bidirectional worked?

NOTES: This does not say what the service hours would be, other than 600 would be expanded to all day., Maybe 605 will be peak only.

Implementation is for 2018-19, which seems further out than expected, but maybe in line with that Tollway construction has to be completed first.

If this is funded by CMAQ, that gives Pace 3 years to develop ridership, and if this is too much service, we'll know in 2023.

[BusHunter]

The I-90 upgrades are supposed to be complete in 2016, so don't ask me what Pace is doing for the two year hiatus in which this is not yet running. #610 runs light in the opposite direction. Not really worth having service but if the bus is going back out there anyway all it has to do is open the door to customers. 

[Busjack]

14 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The I-90 upgrades are supposed to be complete in 2016, so don't ask me what Pace is doing for the two year hiatus in which this is not yet running.

Both of us needed to read the proposal, which says:

"This funding request is for the 2nd and 3rd years of service operations and marketing of new and expanded express bus routes and demand responsive services within in the I-90 Jane Addams Tollway corridor between Elgin and Rosemont Il."

Also: "This project is being planned in coordination with the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority’s reconstruction of I-90 Jane Addams Tollway opening in late 2016."

Page 3 has the projected ridership, including for Call and Rides.

[Pace831]

49 minutes ago, Busjack said:

605 presumably runs express from Randall Rd. to Rosemont. Not mach different than splitting 755/855 . . . Maybe 605 will be peak only

Hard to tell from the map whether 605 will make any intermediate stops, but expressing from Randall Rd to Rosemont seems like it would only work during the rush hour. The description of 607 as a branch of 605 might indicate that there will be combo trips off-peak, but then it would make more sense to describe 605 as a "branch" of 607, not the other way around. Of course, they could still adjust the specifics of where each route stops, so we'll just have to wait and see.

[Busjack]

37 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Hard to tell from the map whether 605 will make any intermediate stops

Again, I might have read it too quickly, as both the 605 and 607 descriptions mention "various park and rides."

It might end up similar to the 850-851-855 spit, as besides having different terminals, they serve different park and rides (855 serves Burr Ridge, 851 Romeoville).

I also see that the map appended to the application only shows "Distributor services" at Schaumburg and Barrington, not specifically 609 and 611.

[BusHunter]

Well if they plan on having this many routes, where is the bus order?  They might need 10-20 buses just for this. Another question would be what garage is going to house this many extra buses?  Between this and Pulse, they are going to need a bus order of some type within 18 months, but I suppose they could go for more highway version Eldorados. Something anyway that's not the current spec, they almost sound like they need the same bus. Wifi equipped, charger equipped, with possible cab lighting areas and bucket seating like a coach bus would have.

[Busjack]

51 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Well if they plan on having this many routes, where is the bus order?  They might need 10-20 buses just for this. Another question would be what garage is going to house this many extra buses?  Between this and Pulse, they are going to need a bus order of some type within 18 months, but I suppose they could go for more highway version Eldorados. Something anyway that's not the current spec, they almost sound like they need the same bus. Wifi equipped, charger equipped, with possible cab lighting areas and bucket seating like a coach bus would have.

The diesel bus contract is good for 5 years from Nov. 2011, so the exercise of options for deliveries in late 2016 or early 2017 would still be within that timeline. Various places suggest that the grant application includes vehicles. Page 16 implies that the expressway network gets motor coaches, which would make sense for the Randall Road routes.

If you look at page 10, it says that the full rapid transit plan (ART and expressway) is going to require 3 garages, and they haven't done anything on NW garage yet.

[BusHunter]

On 12/8/2015 at 2:49 PM, Busjack said:

The diesel bus contract is good for 5 years from Nov. 2011, so the exercise of options for deliveries in late 2016 or early 2017 would still be within that timeline. Various places suggest that the grant application includes vehicles. Page 16 implies that the expressway network gets motor coaches, which would make sense for the Randall Road routes.

If you look at page 10, it says that the full rapid transit plan (ART and expressway) is going to require 3 garages, and they haven't done anything on NW garage yet.

Now i see what you mean, 3 garages will be for all the new service, but it's not out of realm to still say there will be an additional garage in Des Plaines. Wow, if they plan to implement all that extra service on Pulse and the expressway network, they should greatly improve ridership. Some of those corridors could actually have transfer locations like the I-80 to I-294 bus. That's what they really need to do, because we are slowly getting swallowed up in road congestion and maybe when people see the bus is faster than their cars, they might decide to switch over. Some of the ART corridors are phenomenal, Harlem 95th to Touhy for starters and extensions to glenview after that. It would be great if they could do all that with both networks. The I-294 bus Indiana to Wisconsin would benefit off a stop to Gurnee Mills, not only would it get ridership from city dwellers, the extra parking and land up there would make a nice park n' ride but really what they propose at I-90/Barrington road with the park n' ride that keep the buses on the expressway needs to be a model for the future. Anything that slows these buses down is negative.

[Busjack]

14 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Some of those corridors could actually have transfer locations like the I-80 to I-294 bus.

The TIGER application for I-294 was going to use the Hodgkins Transit Center as a transfer point, but that went nowhere, and nobody rode the 889 bus. At least Pace started smaller with 895.

16 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Some of the ART corridors are phenomenal, Harlem 95th to Touhy for starters and extensions to glenview after that. It would be great if they could do all that with both networks.

What Pace wants may be way down the road, especially since CMAP staff said it wouldn't support the Dempster Pulse until the Milwaukee one proved itself. Conversely, it said it would back the Edens BOS because the I-55 one worked.

Harlem has the problem that some of it (certainly Higgins to Grand) is CTA territory, and of Pace were so concerned about through trips, it shouldn't have cut back 307. Thus, some coordination plan is needed there first. The territory I just mentioned doesn't have a wide enough Harlem Ave, to take advantage of an express bus.

I'm not sure why Pace appended the Pulse piece to this, except all the Nova Classics indicate that this did not receive editorial oversight.

Finally, I don't see what market there is on I-80 (Joliet to Harvey), or as indicated above by my reference to 889, the full length of the Tri-State. There may be an expressway there, but...

[BusHunter]

Some of that is way down the road but Dempster, Halsted, Harlem, Cermak Pulse are on the short list. You could argue that Dempster is one lane in Evanston but I don't think that really matters. They would have TSP right, so that should help the flow of traffic, if anything I'd be concerned about the cross traffic. The big thing on Harlem to worry about are the grade RR crossings which can be a bear. But there are alot of positives adding buses to corridors CTA has cut, like #90N and even the #90 which has had frequency cuts. if CTA wants to cut service, then Pace should be applauded if they want to add service there. Maybe CTA could work with the changes and go back to a grand/blue line routing. If they had Pulse Harlem there's really no need to go to the green line anymore. All they could hurt is the local ridership which is not alot and they would have #307 and #318. Thinking big picture I'd definitely be going after I-294, they already have buses serving it and could benefit off a bos concept. Anything with no existing service I would wait on, but at least they have a plan.

CTA by comparison is confusing. First they do #J14 which is brt lite then they are doing loop link which is a corridor enhancement not really a brt in the form of a route. Then they mention Ashland BRT back off and do this X service on Western and Ashland with all the hallmarks of BRT but not calling it that. So long term plans for them are somewhat confusing to envision.

[Busjack]

43 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

But there are alot of positives adding buses to corridors CTA has cut, like #90N and even the #90 which has had frequency cuts.

If Harlem north of Higgins can barely support 423, and couldn't support both it and 90N, how is it going to support an express bus overlay?