New Eldorados?

[rotjohns]

Lots of 6600s and 6200s at Ravinia this year as Busjack stated.  With the Ravinia schedule out now, they must be planning for big crowds this year.  I'm sure I'll see a lot of them when I go there on 6/22. 

[Busjack]

On 3/23/2018 at 10:23 PM, andrethebusman said:

Means they have them, and they are accepted, but will not see use until June. Note that South still has 8 diesel 6300's. Maybe these are suburbans and will replace them?

...

I don't know, but this makes the most sense. Maybe there has to be training first. While June isn't in time for the start of Edens BOS in April, maybe equipment (6379-6385, 6388) becomes "available" in June, allowing BOS to expand, and @BusHunter gets what he predicted.

On @Pace831's observations, maybe they were delivered directly to Markham and are being squirreled inside the garage.

I guess we have to wait until June to know.

 

[BusHunter]

On 3/23/2018 at 11:06 AM, Busjack said:

@Pace831said he did.

Notable here are that some 6200s and 6600s are listed as Ravinia, and the Orion VIs are totally off the list.

Will have to find out what FVT means for 6784 and 6785 means (no 6783 yet). Same mysterious stuff as 6701-2 to Fox Valley in the last inventory?

As @andrethebusman pointed out, 11 18500s for South. I can't figure out why they would be needed, except maybe to move the highway buses elsewhere (which would make @BusHunter feel better). Something within the contract, but certainly not in any published budget.

Well it would try to answer what is headed for the edens bos startup. Something is going there but what it is is still up for debate. 

 Wonder if this displaces any Eldorado they currently have?

[andrethebusman]

Here is what we have for an overview of Pace bus purchases since 2012:

2012 - 6323-6334 (12)

2013 - 6335-6397 (63)

2014 - 6398-6412,6414-6418 (20); 6950-6962 (13); 14001-14157 (156 - 14104 already retired); 14200-14297 (98)

2015 - 6419-6483 (65); 6963-6971 (9); 14400-14419 (2)

2016 - 6484-6512,6514-6546 (62); 15500-15512,15514-15520 (20); 16001-16050 (50)

2017 - 6547-6575 (28); 8624-8630 (7); 17500-17512,17514-17528 (28); 6972-6979 (8); 16400-16434 (35)

 

[Busjack]

18 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

17500-17512,17514-17528 (28)

Since the Jan 2018 inventory has through 17571, you're short.

[Pace831]

I never noticed before that the newer paratransits and community vehicles do have numbers ending in "13". There are 14013, 14113, 14213, 14413, 16013, 16413, and possibly 17013.

[ethan2226]

Could S's Highway buses move to NS?

[Busjack]

21 minutes ago, ethan2226 said:

Could S's Highway buses move to NS?

Again, see what I posted above.

[chgofan78]

Just passed 6783 heading eastbound on Dempster with a "MAINTENANCE" destination sign. 

[andrethebusman]

22 hours ago, Busjack said:

Since the Jan 2018 inventory has through 17571, you're short.

17529-17571 are considered "2018", as are 6700 thru about 6734 even though they physically came in 2017. I guess that what PACE calls a "2018" is what was paid from off the 2017 budget, not necessarily what showed up in 2018.

[Busjack]

21 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

17529-17571 are considered "2018", as are 6700 thru about 6734 even though they physically came in 2017. I guess that what PACE calls a "2018" is what was paid from off the 2017 budget, not necessarily what showed up in 2018.

And I suppose that's why they are numbered 18529-18571. Maybe they are like cars, and anything that goes on sale for the first time after Jan, 1, 2017 is a 2018. Basically shows that if there isn't a uniform standard of measurement, it is meaningless.

Only thing that can be said with reasonable certainty is that the buses on the Jan 2018 inventory were seen and noted in this forum at some time prior to Jan. 1, 2018.

[BusHunter]

On 3/20/2018 at 11:48 AM, Busjack said:

That saves me having to make a trip to Lake Cook at 8:15 a.m.

Must have been. 6235, 6255, 6256, and 6258 were still on the inventory as NS after 6729 was delivered, but those 4 buses were either at W or not seen after 6701, 6702, and 6782 showed up.

Again, going back to @artthouwill's point, I don't see why you are so hung up that the Edens BOS has to be highway buses, especially when the assigned routes are designated as "Limited." Only thing happening in the short term after April 9 is that a 620 or 626 gets to use the shoulder if the expressway is backed up, and based on travel times noted in the morning, it isn't.

Hmm, I don't get ns getting buses if they are not highway. If edens didn't get highway buses on a bos project, a Pace first, I think that would be rather embarrassing. That is what a highway bus is for. It don't make sense to brand regular buses cause then you can't use them on 213 for instance. You could argue well 895 doesn't have it but technically it's not a bos route. Maybe they are going to lease MCIs it's happened before.

[Busjack]

13 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Hmm, I don't get ns getting buses if they are not highway. If edens didn't get highway buses on a bos project, a Pace first, I think that would be rather embarrassing. That is what a highway bus is for. It don't make sense to brand regular buses cause then you can't use them on 213 for instance. You could argue well 895 doesn't have it but technically it's not a bos route. Maybe they are going to lease MCIs it's happened before.

You missed the posts on 18500-18511 sitting until June and what that might result in.

[BusHunter]

10 hours ago, Busjack said:

You missed the posts on 18500-18511 sitting until June and what that might result in.

But then why send ns 4 more eldorados? Maybe something is getting displaced 6564 maybe? 

There is also a question of ns storage capacity.

[Busjack]

45 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

But then why send ns 4 more eldorados? Maybe something is getting displaced 6564 maybe? 

There is also a question of ns storage capacity.

Either things get displaced or the expanded service happens.

There still is the law that authorizes Pace to sell bonds to expand the NS garage, but since it is the same size as the NW garage, there doesn't seem any immediate problem.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Either things get displaced or the expanded service happens.

There still is the law that authorizes Pace to sell bonds to expand the NS garage, but since it is the same size as the NW garage, there doesn't seem any immediate problem.

Well I suppose they can park buses on the apron if they have to but I've only seen retired buses outside at ns.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Well I suppose they can park buses on the apron if they have to but I've only seen retired buses outside at ns.

I'm not sure where you see the need. From the Pace Divisions page:

H	55,000 sq ft	54 buses (30 OTRS)
N	81,000 sq ft	52 buses (up from approz. 30 35 footers and 10 40 footers)
NS	81,500 sq ft	45 buses

So, unless buses are stuck on the apron at N, and the 8 diesel highway buses reflect a service expansion in June, I don't see how NS is short of space. Certainly, not compared to H, which is supposed to get a remodeling, but not expansion.

[Pace831]

On 3/26/2018 at 11:22 AM, Busjack said:

On @Pace831's observations, maybe they were delivered directly to Markham and are being squirreled inside the garage.

Come to think of it, I did see several CNGs at Chandler after the 6700s deliveries were done. But I didn't stop to check the numbers, assuming they were 15500s or 17500s.

[BusHunter]

33 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I'm not sure where you see the need. From the Pace Divisions page:

H	55,000 sq ft	54 buses (30 OTRS)
N	81,000 sq ft	52 buses (up from approz. 30 35 footers and 10 40 footers)
NS	81,500 sq ft	45 buses

So, unless buses are stuck on the apron at N, and the 8 diesel highway buses reflect a service expansion in June, I don't see how NS is short of space. Certainly, not compared to H, which is supposed to get a remodeling, but not expansion.

Those buses would require at least 15,000 ft of space. They have that to spare?

According to the roster 48 buses are at ns, so looks like they have over capacity now.

[Busjack]

8 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Those buses would require at least 15,000 ft of space. They have that to spare?

I don't get where you got that number. A 40 ft by 9 ft bus is 360 sq. ft. 8 of them is 2880 sq ft.

Sure, there's need for room to maneuver, fueling and washing stations, offices, etc., but if each garage is about 55 buses, that's about 20,000 sq ft. The 2 garages are 81,000.

And, as I said above, you would have to provide photos that N consistently puts buses on the apron, as it has more buses, including more 40 foot buses than NS does.

Of course, I mentioned that Pace had bonding authority to expand NS, but it is at least 5 years behind on using the bonding authority to replace NW, which does have buses on the driveway and apparently E Dundee was to house its overflow, although it is assigned to R.

 

[BusHunter]

39 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I'm not sure where you see the need. From the Pace Divisions page:

H	55,000 sq ft	54 buses (30 OTRS)
N	81,000 sq ft	52 buses (up from approz. 30 35 footers and 10 40 footers)
NS	81,500 sq ft	45 buses

So, unless buses are stuck on the apron at N, and the 8 diesel highway buses reflect a service expansion in June, I don't see how NS is short of space. Certainly, not compared to H, which is supposed to get a remodeling, but not expansion.

Oh I assumed that 81,000 ft is 45 buses. There is definitely going to be some swapping going on at ns. I think they will end up with what they have and lose a few buses for souths highway buses. If in fact the 18000s are any they can go no other place.

[Busjack]

8 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Oh I assumed that 81,000 ft is 45 buses. There is definitely going to be some swapping going on at ns. I think they will end up with what they have and lose a few buses for souths highway buses. If in fact the 18000s are any they can go no other place.

Yes, that's possible. I would have thought that if there wasn't going to be fleet expansion, Pace could have kept 8 NABIs there but didn't, but they could send 6477-6484 to W. For that manner, they could send 6564-6565 to R and get 6390-6391.But maybe the plan for the Jeff Pk to Lake Cook and Kimball to Lake Cook proposals kicks in.

[andrethebusman]

It has become the accepted standard among roster-keepers that the year you list a bus as is determined by the year code in the VIN. Builders are not consistent in how they apply year codes. Orion used to change over on January 1st, New Flyer seems to change around October. Auto builders are even worse, changing around July? But for us roster-mongers, year code rules, regardless of actual delivery date. Just the convention has developed.

[Busjack]

On 3/28/2018 at 12:05 PM, andrethebusman said:

I guess that what PACE calls a "2018" is what was paid from off the 2017 budget, not necessarily what showed up in 2018.

 

3 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

It has become the accepted standard among roster-keepers that the year you list a bus as is determined by the year code in the VIN. Builders are not consistent in how they apply year codes.

Well, it has to be one or the other or maybe a third. For instance the 11100 hybrid paratransits were based on when they were titled.

But other than there being a jump of 88 between 17528 and 17529, I don't see any difference:

The digit after the G, though, is all over the place.

I don't know what is the year digit, but the 15500s  have F after the random number, the 17500s have H, and the 18500s have J. Similarly, the jump from H to J on the 6700s is at 6755. Hence, if the VINs mean anything, all 17500s and 6700s up through 6754 are 2017 buses (or at least the same model year).

The one thing I agree with you is that the VIN for 6395 is out of sequence and is not the same VIN as the Altoona bus, which matches 6400.

[andrethebusman]

The ninth digit is a check code, which is arrived at via a mathematical formula using the other 16 digits to assure that all the others are in fact correct. If any are not, a computer will kick that VIN out as incorrect. Helps keep fat-finger mistakes at a minimum.

Year codes are as follows:

Started in 1980 with A. 1981-2000 used B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J, K, L, M, N, P, R, S, T, V, W, X, Y. Note I, O, Q, U, Z were not used. 2001-2009 used 1 thru 9. 2010 started the series over with A. B is 2011, C is 2012, D is 2013, E is 2014, F is 2015, G is 2016, H is 2017, J is 2018. Same five letters will again be skipped. Cycle will repeat every 30 years.

This system is used worldwide now. By the way, the first 3 digits identify the builder on any vehicle. 1 designates USA, N9 is Eldorado. MNAC6 designated a EZ Rider II, while APACL designates an Axxess 40'. What those codes actually mean will take more research.