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Pace Bus 2010


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In a sense, I am surprised, but only in the sense that there hasn't been a request for proposals for 40 foot buses, not that Axess wouldn't have been a candidate.

As another member says, "you do have photographic proof of that." Unfortunately, the license plate is blown out, as I would have been more convinced that Pace was demonstrating an actual bus if the plate were M192010. Also, I take the 2010 number as being the year, not fleet number, sort of similar to the Huberman presentations for the DE60LFs having fleet number 2008.

Since enconline doesn't have any press releases, and the Thor Industries corporate site only financial news, does anyone have any inside information whether it is Pace or Eldorado that is demonstrating the bus, and, if the latter, why it would go to the expense of detailing it as Pace?

Thanks for the heads up.

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Nice! But then dosent this contradict Pace's decision last year to commit to an all 30ft bus fleet? Or do they still have plans for standard length BRT buses?

The Pace budget indicated that this was the last of the 30 footers, and that the capital budget for next year was for 40 footers. The capital plan for the next 10 years just says 471 replacement buses, but that is presumably to replace 35 and 40 foot ones.*

A BRT bus would be consistent with Pace saying that they want to institute ART service on Milwaukee, Dempster, and Cermak.

Although pace2322 isn't here, no way that Pace could replace 2402-2420 in South with 30 foot buses.

___________

*On further review, the numbers don't give an indication of the cost per bus, since they say that they need 471 replacement buses in 10 years, but only have said how much they want to spend in five.

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The plates on the bus are for California. From what the salesman told me today is that pace is interested in 40 foot low floor buses and want to demo this on some routes.

James

Thanks for the clarification, which also supports what I just said to 5750.
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I have to admit, that's a pretty nice bus and very different from the Nabis in the past. Finally a bus that mirrors some nice buses in other cities. Hope these are the buses that replace the 99 Nabis and eventually the Orion VIs, although that's probably a ways away unless BRT is a reality.

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Pace is demoing an Eldorado National Axess 40 BRT #2010, this bus made a stop at the MAT bus garage in Omaha Nebraska today 07/15/2010.

Sorry for the quality of the photos my camera doesnt like the bus garage lighting.

James Roach

The Eldorado National Axess looks like a NOVA LFS meets a New Flyer. Curved front, like a NOVA, rear A/C vents and tailpipe like a New Flyer

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Recalculating things in my head, while I first thought that the 22 40 foot buses in the 2010 budget were to replace 2389-2400, since that seems that that will be accomplished by the 30 footers, maybe the 22 are actually 2401-2412, 2414-2422, and the bbq bus 2453. Still comes out to 22.

The Eldorado National Axess looks like a NOVA LFS meets a New Flyer. Curved front, like a NOVA, rear A/C vents and tailpipe like a New Flyer

These days, pretty much any bus looks like that. I do remember that the demo NABI 42BRT stopped by at Pace, and I wouldn't be surprised if a Gillig BRT (often pictured by our Minnesota members) also paid a visit before the rfp goes out.

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PACE 2010 arrived@South Holland today,and once a farebox is installed it will be assigned to South Div.then going to Buscon,then back to South Div.to test its effectiveness.I'll be taking&posting pictures next week.

Wow that was fast. Too bad we can't Webwatch it.

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Wow that was fast. Too bad we can't Webwatch it.

Usually an IBS would also be installed with the farebox. Pace 834 can tell us whether that has been or will be done, but if it is, you can WebWatch it. Personally, I would look at Route 352, since that is where it would get the biggest workout.

As indicated by all reports about buses going to South Holland and staying there for quite a time, including the stimulus buses, the question also is how fast the South Holland Division will turn this around. Again, I assume that Pace 834 has the answer before me.

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Usually an IBS would also be installed with the farebox. Pace 834 can tell us whether that has been or will be done, but if it is, you can WebWatch it. Personally, I would look at Route 352, since that is where it would get the biggest workout.

As indicated by all reports about buses going to South Holland and staying there for quite a time, including the stimulus buses, the question also is how fast the South Holland Division will turn this around. Again, I assume that Pace 834 has the answer before me.

South is getting it? When they have lots of problems getting their current buses in top shape? Wow, that to me is a surprise. What it may tell us is the 1999 Nabis' days may be numbered as most of the 40 footers are at South. They'll send these buses out before they send out the 30-footers.

Plus if it goes to route 352, it will get it's biggest workout, both physically and mechanically.

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PACE 2010 arrived@South Holland today,and once a farebox is installed it will be assigned to South Div.then going to Buscon,then back to South Div.to test its effectiveness.I'll be taking&posting pictures next week.

Maybe that'll give me an excuse to perform some field research. Maybe.

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South is getting it? When they have lots of problems getting their current buses in top shape? Wow, that to me is a surprise. What it may tell us is the 1999 Nabis' days may be numbered as most of the 40 footers are at South. They'll send these buses out before they send out the 30-footers.

Plus if it goes to route 352, it will get it's biggest workout, both physically and mechanically.

Hopefully I get to ride it on the 353.

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South is getting it? When they have lots of problems getting their current buses in top shape? Wow, that to me is a surprise. What it may tell us is the 1999 Nabis' days may be numbered as most of the 40 footers are at South. They'll send these buses out before they send out the 30-footers.

Plus if it goes to route 352, it will get it's biggest workout, both physically and mechanically.

Which would be the point of testing it there, just like testing the 5000s started on the Red Line. If a supposedly lighter weight bus (compared to say a NABI or New Flyer) holds up in South, it will hold up throughout the system. There would be little point in testing it, for instance, in Northwest, other than on 270 or 290.

Also, I don't have the inside information that the guy who sends the paperwork to Pace 834 has, but I had previously said that the 22 40 foot buses in the 2010 budget probably are to replace the 22-40 foot 2401s. Even if one thinks they have to get through the 12 year FTA cycle, by the time this and probably other brands are demonstrated, a request for proposals is made, and after the award, the 180 days to start delivery pass, their 12 year life is going to be over.

Of course, to further complicate the waters, no one knows if the 11 "green" buses mentioned in today's announcement of how Pace will use its smidgen of the capital bill money enters into the budget for the 22 40 footers. Not that the Pace capital budget is ever indicative of anything, with regard to predicting what equipment it will be ordering.

So, basically it is like art says, maybe he'll track it down on 353.

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I don't know how many bus types Pace has demoed in the past, but the fact that Pace itself requested this bus to test shows there interested in it. Also with all the purchasing lately from Eldorado, it's probably going to be a front runner. It all depends how it tests. Like Busjack says they are most likely looking to replace the #2400's which will be in their 12th year in 2011. We may very well be looking at the next bus at Pace with maybe a few tweaks here and there.

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I don't know how many bus types Pace has demoed in the past, but the fact that Pace itself requested this bus to test shows there interested in it. Also with all the purchasing lately from Eldorado, it's probably going to be a front runner. It all depends how it tests. Like Busjack says they are most likely looking to replace the #2400's which will be in their 12th year in 2011. We may very well be looking at the next bus at Pace with maybe a few tweaks here and there.

Pace had reported a couple of years ago that the NABI sales force had swung around Arlington Heights with 42BRT and 60BRT demonstrators, and that they were nice, but Pace didn't then have the money to buy them. I think that there was some talk in the old days about Pace getting Orion I and V demonstrators, but I wasn't around for that. It did appear kind of strange that Pace stuck with Orion Is long after most TAs went to Vs.

This also seems to be a departure from the past practice of putting out the Standard Bus Procurement Guidelines spec and taking bids, but maybe the CTA NABI experience has resulted in changing the business model. Pace's announcements up to now indicated that they took the lowest bidder, in that there was a press release that each Orion VI was $10,000 cheaper than their predecessors, assumedly these NABIs.

That brings up the question of demonstrators. We sort of know why CTA 7800 became a NABI demonstrator--because both sides backed out of the deal. In this case, can we properly infer from what AM General and Pace 834 were told that ElDorado spent, maybe $400,000 of its own money and painted a bus as Pace, just to try to make a sale, and after a couple of months, the bus may show up in, say Dayton, Ohio? Could be, but I don't know how these things work. If anyone else has inside information, please share it.

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I don't know how many bus types Pace has demoed in the past, but the fact that Pace itself requested this bus to test shows there interested in it. Also with all the purchasing lately from Eldorado, it's probably going to be a front runner. It all depends how it tests. Like Busjack says they are most likely looking to replace the #2400's which will be in their 12th year in 2011. We may very well be looking at the next bus at Pace with maybe a few tweaks here and there.

The bus is also on El Dorado's website to get some pretty good pics of it. So it's the El Dorado Axess. They must feel pretty confident that Pace will go forward with it. This is also considering that within the next year, Pace will have to begin thinking about the Orion VIs and replacing them starting in 2012. Could it be possible that Pace could look into a few 60 footers now that money is getting a little brighter to put on routes like the 352?

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The bus is also on El Dorado's website to get some pretty good pics of it. So it's the El Dorado Axess.

I have always had severe problems getting the Flash to load by just clicking Product Line on their site. However, if one goes to their California page, and clicks on the About our Products link on the bottom, the Flash loads, and 2010 is in the first two pictures of the Axess gallery.

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Interesting looking unit. I kinda like it.

A few thoughts:

  • Eldorado needs to paint it and probably test it anyways, perhaps they had an agreement with Pace that they would paint it blue, add Pace logos and then let Pace try it out for a while in exchange for being able to promote an official transit agency's usage of the unit and interest.
  • I skimmed though the pitiful amount of board minutes available and didn't notice anything about Eldorado leasing/loaning a bus to Pace for testing. I assume there had to have been some sort of official thing on this. (MVTA had an agreement for the Xcelsior noted on the May board packet) It's not like Eldorado is just going to call the Pace bus maintenance supervisor and say "Would you mind trying this one out?"
  • Maybe Eldorado goofed up on the production of an EZ-Rider II MAX 30' and therefore is loaning this one out until they complete another unit.

None of these may be accurate of course but that's my two cents.

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I'll deal with these in inverse order of likelihood, again from being outside the fence and the company:

  • Maybe Eldorado goofed up on the production of an EZ-Rider II MAX 30' and therefore is loaning this one out until they complete another unit.

Not likely. Up to 2812 was in the South Holland yard, while the numbers on the street go to about 2772. Pace has had a history (at least going back to the 2003 NABIs) of being very slow getting the buses outside the acceptance center. Of course, I don't know what is inside the building. Pace 834 said it was going to South, which would be the best place to test it, but the place least likely to need a 30 footer.

  • Eldorado needs to paint it and probably test it anyways, perhaps they had an agreement with Pace that they would paint it blue, add Pace logos and then let Pace try it out for a while in exchange for being able to promote an official transit agency's usage of the unit and interest.

Could be, but it surprises me that it didn't have generic paint, like the NABI demonstrator or some EZ Rider II BRTs occasionally viewable on enconline.com. Also, Pace seems protective of its trademark, in that it blacks it out before selling a used bus and has contracts for removing the decals from paratransit vehicles before sale, although how it is ever going to get its trademarks off the blue buses is beyond me. But I mentioned that I didn't know anything about that part of the business.

  • I skimmed though the pitiful amount of board minutes available and didn't notice anything about Eldorado leasing/loaning a bus to Pace for testing. I assume there had to have been some sort of official thing on this. (MVTA had an agreement for the Xcelsior noted on the May board packet) It's not like Eldorado is just going to call the Pace bus maintenance supervisor and say "Would you mind trying this one out?"

Now you are starting to get to the essence of the issue. However, around here, board approval is needed to spend money and purchase goods or services, while one could assume that the Executive Director has the authority to "try something out."

In fact, from a bus manufacturer's perspective, board approval apparently means little, given the controversy over whether there ever was a New Flyer-CTA contract, and Pace apparently pulling out of the OTR contract, recognizing, of course, that the latter RFP was so full of contingencies that the Notice to Proceed may never have been issued.

I've also frequently mentioned that the published Pace capital budget has very little to do with what eventually is seen delivered.

So, while I was surprised to see a post with this title, the way that AM General and Pace 834 explained it makes sense, although there are holes to fill.

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Here are the "before" pictures of PACE 2010@S.Holland.I'm sure after a short time on the street they will look drastically different.

Go Cubs huh? LOL. It's gonna be at South, so they better change the destination sign to GO SOX quick.

The more I look at this bus, it kinda resembles CTA's Novas except for the headlights in the front and the back is pretty different.

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