West Division - Changes & Restructuring

[artthouwill]

I wonder would they extend the 310 to Oak Brook Center as well. I'm sure there are people from Madison St wouldn't mind going to 22nd St.

As Busjack points out, both routes meet at Wolf/Harrison.  However, a case could be made only if the 301 were to be rerouted to continue west on Roosevelt west of Wolf, with the 310 running on Darmstadt and Butterfield to Elmhurst.  The one advantage would speed up 301 trips.  However, Pace uses the Park N Ride on Darmstadt for driver reliefs on the 301

[Busjack]

As Busjack points out, both routes meet at Wolf/Harrison.  However, a case could be made only if the 301 were to be rerouted to continue west on Roosevelt west of Wolf, with the 310 running on Darmstadt and Butterfield to Elmhurst.  The one advantage would speed up 301 trips.  However, Pace uses the Park N Ride on Darmstadt for driver reliefs on the 301

No point using Roosevelt west of Wolf (at least to generate passenger traffic) because it is expressway from the county line to Rt. 83.

In fact, one of the reasons that 747 was merged into 301 may be that the left turn ramp from Roosevelt to I-290 is often closed during rush hour, barring access to the Hillside Strangler.

[artthouwill]

No point using Roosevelt west of Wolf (at least to generate passenger traffic) because it is expressway from the county line to Rt. 83.

In fact, one of the reasons that 747 was merged into 301 may be that the left turn ramp from Roosevelt to I-290 is often closed during rush hour, barring access to the Hillside Strangler.

True, but that routing didn't really alter the travel time of the 747.  Had the merged 301/747 maintained that routing, there really would be no adverse effect on those who once used the 747.  However, with the speed restrictions on Darmstadt and Butterfield ( 30mph) and nearly no boarding along that portion of the route, it only adds an additional 10 minutes to the route.  I'm sure Pace justifies the current routing by serving the very little used Park N Ride and that it serves Elmhurst Hospital (which is not a traffic generator) .

[MetroShadow]

West Division Restructuring for Thanksgiving Week are now posted on the PaceBus website. Enjoy!

[Busjack]

West Division Restructuring for Thanksgiving Week are now posted on the PaceBus website. Enjoy!

Only thing unexpected was the 327 Industrial Drive. Also it appears that the Madison buses won't go through downtown Forest Park.

General announcement (embedded in the passenger notices) is here.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Busjack

[Busjack]

Apparently, some of the word did not get to Moving Forward, which says: "The new Route 305 would operate primarily along Roosevelt Road between the Harlem CTA Green Line Station/Metra UP-West Oak Park Station and the CTA Blue Line Cicero Station." The notices and schedules clearly state that it ends at the Forest Park Blue Line station, and for service north of there, use 318.

[BusHunter]

West Division Restructuring for Thanksgiving Week are now posted on the PaceBus website. Enjoy!

Link??? I can't find it.

[artthouwill]

West Division Restructuring for Thanksgiving Week are now posted on the PaceBus website. Enjoy!

I think taking the Madison buses off Madison between Van Buren and Desplaines is a great idea.  While the 318 and EB 320s still have to navigate turning out of the terminal onto NB Desplaines without a traffic signal, this change should improve keeping on schedule and reducing the risks of an accident there.  Perhaps if Forest Park terminal gets rebuilt, eliminating this turn without a traffic signal or putting one entrance/exit with a traffic signal will reduce accident risk to near zero.

I like the idea of eliminating the Sunday 311/318 interline. 

I'm still not a fan of the 305 restructuring.  The 316 from the Cicero/Blue Line still makes no sense.  What is the purpose? The 315 Austin will still serve Morton College from the Austin Blue Line stop.  Since the new 305 and 316 will interline anyway, it is just an unnecessary extension of the current route.  I'm not a fan of shortening the northern end to the Blue Line as there was a decent ridership for a one seat ride from Walmart to Forest Park and Oak Park.  However, I know traffic along Madison and Harlem is very congested during rush periods and often lead to the 305 running extremely late.  Therefore this change may be necessary to maintain schedule.

I'm glad to see Sunday service restored on the 330.

[Pace831]

Link??? I can't find it.

http://pacebus.com/pdf/Notices/WestNov2015Changes.pdf

The passenger notices for the affected routes have the link.

[BusHunter]

http://pacebus.com/pdf/Notices/WestNov2015Changes.pdf

The passenger notices for the affected routes have the link.

Thanks man!! That's alot of changes, they need a map of all this because it is confusing. I can't seem to follow #327's routing, but I don't frequent forest Pk. I know the Hines VA just remodeled and there's not much space for the buses at building 200, that's the main building, the tall one. The buses I believe changed their routing to serve building 228 months ago, the red building along the drive and they seem to turn around in the back part of the property and come out. A strange routing. I thought a long time ago they just drove on a private drive over to Loyola, but I haven't seen that in years.

The #305 routing does seem to make a little sense going to Cicero/blue line, but that's not a real nice neighborhood to have to wait for a bus. I think maybe this will hurt the ridership because of that and 4 blocks away from Roosevelt is the blue line and service frequencies will hurt it as it's probably faster to just walk from the blue line.

Interesting they killed Laramie altogether from the pink line to roosevelt. I would think there was some kind of ridership. On the flip side they could have ran it to cicero/blue line and just had the #305 loop via Austin,Jackson, Central and Roosevelt. They could've had a direct connection with the #12 and #85 and #7 terminal and even the #126. Now there's basically double service on roosevelt going to the same place. The new Laramie route seems short and may ultimately die. Plus now there could be more ridership on south Austin but nothing really goes there without multiple transfers. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

Thanks man!! That's alot of changes, they need a map of all this because it is confusing. I can't seem to follow #327's routing, but I don't frequent forest Pk....

If you had clicked on the link I had posted, it spells it all out, except one has to look at the 327 map on the schedule preview that it goes to two buildings on a street half way between Roosevelt and Cermak.

While not everything is accessible on the Route Finder, it is on the Passenger Notices page.

[RJL6000]

Interesting they killed Laramie altogether from the pink line to roosevelt.

Actually, they didn't do that (judging by the schedule preview for the new 316).

[BusHunter]

Actually, they didn't do that (judging by the schedule preview for the new 316).

Actually the schedule preview makes no mention of this. (told you this was confusing) I never read the actual schedule. So let me get this straight the #305 and the #316 will go to Cicero/Blue line and 3 buses will now run between Cicero/roosevelt and laramie/roosevelt. Sounds to me like they just traded Harlem ave's multiple bus corridor for Roosevelt.

http://www.pacebus.com/pdf/Notices/WestNov2015Changes.pdf

[Busjack]

Actually the schedule preview makes no mention of this. (told you this was confusing) I never read the actual schedule. So let me get this straight the #305 and the #316 will go to Cicero/Blue line and 3 buses will now run between Cicero/roosevelt and laramie/roosevelt. Sounds to me like they just traded Harlem ave's multiple bus corridor for Roosevelt.

http://www.pacebus.com/pdf/Notices/WestNov2015Changes.pdf

If nothing else, it theoretically disconnects the Sunday 305 via Austin. However, it doesn't appear to do much substantively (other than cutting back to Forest Park and connecting Laramie directly to the Cicero Blue Line station).

The only multiple bus corridor is the loop around the Cicero station.

[MetroShadow]

If nothing else, it theoretically disconnects the Sunday 305 via Austin. However, it doesn't appear to do much substantively (other than cutting back to Forest Park and connecting Laramie directly to the Cicero Blue Line station).

The only multiple bus corridor is the loop around the Cicero station.

Yes, and it does keep the Austin routing by its own route since that's now 7 days a week (that, and the 315 is primarily focused on Austin). I would contend that 305 and 315 (under the new routing) would continue to maintain that 7-day grid of service while 314 and 316 provide neighborhood (legacy) coverage. 

[Busjack]

Yes, and it does keep the Austin routing by its own route since that's now 7 days a week (that, and the 315 is primarily focused on Austin). I would contend that 305 and 315 (under the new routing) would continue to maintain that 7-day grid of service while 314 and 316 provide neighborhood (legacy) coverage. 

But that's only a numbering thing, as 305 now goes on Austin on Sunday.

[RJL6000]

In eliminating the 311-318 interline on Sundays, Pace will now be able to increase Sunday service frequency on both routes. Currently, on Sundays both routes operate at 60-minute intervals during the day. With the restructuring the 311 will now operate every 45 minutes while the 318 will now operate every 30 minutes.

And yes, what someone previously stated about the service expansion on the 310 and 330 is now confirmed.

Edited November 9, 2015 by RJL6000

[renardo870]

In eliminating the 311-318 interline on Sundays, Pace will now be able to increase Sunday service frequency on both routes. Currently, on Sundays both routes operate at 60-minute intervals during the day. With the restructuring the 311 will now operate every 45 minutes while the 318 will now operate every 30 minutes.

And yes, what someone previously stated about the service expansion on the 310 and 330 is now confirmed.

Yes Sunday service on 310 and 330 is now official 

[BusHunter]

But that's only a numbering thing, as 305 now goes on Austin on Sunday.

Oh no, more confusion!!  And one run still serves the green line. Hopefully they can remove the #305 signs up to green line or everyone will be saying wth? where's the bus!!

Edited November 10, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

Oh no, more confusion!!  And one run still serves the green line. Hopefully they can remove the #305 signs up to green line or everyone will be saying wth? where's the bus!!

I can't even figure out what that trip is for. It is a carryover from the current schedule. You are correct that the 305 should be taped over.

[Pace831]

I can't even figure out what that trip is for. It is a carryover from the current schedule. You are correct that the 305 should be taped over.

This trip is an interline with the first southbound trip of 308. The current 308 schedule contains the footnote:

Bus departs from Harlem Avenue/South Boulevard as Route 305, 6 minutes earlier than time shown at the CTA Blue Line Forest Park Transit Center. Bus operates via Harlem Avenue - Madison Street - Des Plaines Avenue to the CTA Blue Line Forest Park Transit Center.

Interestingly, the new schedule preview does not show this footnote. It will probably continue to be an interline though because it makes no sense to send a second bus out for a very short single trip. I'm kind of surprised it exists at all, but apparently it has enough ridership to justify continuing it.

[BusHunter]

This trip is an interline with the first southbound trip of 308. The current 308 schedule contains the footnote:

Bus departs from Harlem Avenue/South Boulevard as Route 305, 6 minutes earlier than time shown at the CTA Blue Line Forest Park Transit Center. Bus operates via Harlem Avenue - Madison Street - Des Plaines Avenue to the CTA Blue Line Forest Park Transit Center.

Interestingly, the new schedule preview does not show this footnote. It will probably continue to be an interline though because it makes no sense to send a second bus out for a very short single trip. I'm kind of surprised it exists at all, but apparently it has enough ridership to justify continuing it.

Why not just call it a #318 pullout sb from Lake/Harlem? Then they could abolish the #305 up there because it doesn't exist anymore.

[Pace831]

Why not just call it a #318 pullout sb from Lake/Harlem? Then they could abolish the #305 up there because it doesn't exist anymore.

 Even calling it a 308 that originates at the Green Line would make more sense, since the purpose of the trip is transfer to 308. By continuing to call it a 305 and removing the footnote from 308's schedule, I don't see any way for potential riders to find out about it unless they happen to choose the 305 schedule as pleasure reading material.

[artthouwill]

 Even calling it a 308 that originates at the Green Line would make more sense, since the purpose of the trip is transfer to 308. By continuing to call it a 305 and removing the footnote from 308's schedule, I don't see any way for potential riders to find out about it unless they happen to choose the 305 schedule as pleasure reading material.

If you want to get technical, maybe it should be a 318.

First, 308 makes no sense in that the 308 goes nowhere near the Green Line so having a time point there is meaningless.

Currently, this is signed 305 (though you could sign it 318 since both routes run via Harlem, Madison, and Desplaines.  I believe the preferred deadhead route from Melrose Park (garage) to/(from) Forest Park Terminal is via Lake, Harlem, Madison, and Desplaines (although some buses do deadhead from FP via I-290 and Manheim to Lake).  The 308, 318, and 757 have peak a.m service FROM Forest Park Terminal (with 301 having bidirectional peak service).  

At that time, the 305 comes, then the next bus is a 307, then the 757 comes and originates on Circle (though its deadhead route also follows the deadhead of the 305).  Northbound there is a bus that deadheads from the garage heading North on Harlem then becomes a 307 upon reaching South Blvd followed by a 318. 

After the first 305 passes, Harlem Yard starts pulling six car trains out of the yard.

Edited November 13, 2015 by artthouwill

[Pace831]

If you want to get technical, maybe it should be a 318.

First, 308 makes no sense in that the 308 goes nowhere near the Green Line so having a time point there is meaningless.

Currently, this is signed 305 (though you could sign it 318 since both routes run via Harlem, Madison, and Desplaines.  I believe the preferred deadhead route from Melrose Park (garage) to/(from) Forest Park Terminal is via Lake, Harlem, Madison, and Desplaines (although some buses do deadhead from FP via I-290 and Manheim to Lake).  The 308, 318, and 757 have peak a.m service FROM Forest Park Terminal (with 301 having bidirectional peak service).  

At that time, the 305 comes, then the next bus is a 307, then the 757 comes and originates on Circle (though its deadhead route also follows the deadhead of the 305).  Northbound there is a bus that deadheads from the garage heading North on Harlem then becomes a 307 upon reaching South Blvd followed by a 318. 

After the first 305 passes, Harlem Yard starts pulling six car trains out of the yard.

BusHunter already suggested calling that trip a 318, to which I said even calling it 308 makes more sense than 305 (which it is now and will continue to be). To clarify my reference to 308, the 305 trip in question is intended to connect to 308. Therefore, I suggested a footnote on the 308 schedule saying that trip starts at the green line instead of the blue. Basically, I was saying that either of our suggestions would seem more logical than what Pace came up with (calling it 305).

I'm not sure what you are getting at with your mention of deadheads and other routes. We are referring to the 305 trip on Sunday morning that runs from Harlem/Lake to Forest Park. No other buses are at Forest Park at 6AM on Sunday.