CTA Rail Service Alerts

[chicagopcclcar]

Usually when that type of reroute happens, its because one half of the ROW is shutdown with the other half open (ex track 1 and 2 closed ; 3 and 4 open). That leaves the Northbound train operating on NB express tracks while SB reds use the NB red line track

Thanks. I'm clear on that now. Note the following post.

DH

[chicagopcclcar]

So, I guess this is times three, or both sets of pictures in the media were incorrect

As usual, I assume that you aren't elucidating on the underlying cause, again, since some other self proclaimed former CTA employee claimed that these kind of signal comprehension errors don't exist.

NO...all four cars were derailed.

SB track has a signal at north end of platform. This is a timed approach signal. [A] At the south end of platform (58th St.) is a second signal, another timed approach signal, but it is also a home signal . Next there is a crossover, locally operated. Next is the home signal [C]. Finally there is the switch, automatically operated but with manual overrides, that goes to Englewood. (You might want to diagram all this.)

The entire train was derailed because it went through the crossover that was aligned against it. Thats why they had a second train during the re-enactment. The derailed train then encountered the switch to Englewood and went everywhere. The switch to Englewood did not derail the train, it was already derailed from the crossover.

There had been a normal move through 59th St. JCT. An empty train came from Ashland, stopped beyond the crossovers. The switchman changed ends, activated the crossover, went through and proceeded on to East 63rd. This is a normal putout move. The road train came through, was tripped by signal . Operator though he had exceeded timer, reset, did not call control, proceeded, did not see that crossover was set against him (Reason signal tripped him.) Ran through crossover and got hung up on the Englewood switch.

So now you see....no switch moved under a train. I'll do the second incident separately.

DH

[See Tea Eh]

since some other self proclaimed former CTA employee claimed that these kind of signal comprehension errors don't exist.

I'll assume you're referring to me. And, of course, you once again prove that you have no friggin clue what you're talking about.

My contention was not that signal comprehension errors don't exist (I challenge you to show where I said that; and if you're actually referring to someone else, I'd still like to know where that was stated). What I said (which remains true) is taking an incorrect lineup, in and of itself, is not going to jeopardize the safety of a train.

This was in the context of a Green Line that took the wrong lineup at Tower 18, and wound up at Merchandise Mart. In that situation (and any similar, wrong lineup situation), the routing was perfectly safe, it was just leading the wrong way. There was no more danger to passenger safety in the Green Line taking the wrong lineup than if the train in question had actually been a Brown Line taking the correct lineup. The train, signal, and track don't know the difference. A Green Line isn't going to derail just because it happens to be following the route of the Brown Line.

But again, you have continued to demonstrate that you don't actually understand how any of this stuff works, but you just enjoy taking potshots from the sidelines as if you are speaking with some sort of authority.

[artthouwill]

As far as the Green Line derailment #1, my understanding was the operator manually set switch to line up for Cottage Grove. As he crossed the junction, the tracks underneath switched to the Ashland lineup, which explains why the lead car was straddled between the SB track to Cottage and EB Track curving from the Ashland branch. The back end of car 1 and front end of car 2 is trying to go towards Ashland, but there is another t

hread dedicated to that.

While I readily admit I don't work for CTA or any railroad, I would suppose switches don't move on their own, but could move if switch or roadbed beneath is defective? In the case of the Red crossover, it seems like a lineup issue at first. Then the story I read said the operator attempted to go back to get on the right track but could not. The story didn't say why the attempt was unsuccessful, maybe another train, i.e. his follower, was too close?? In any event, CTA is not calling it a derailment.

[chicagopcclcar]

As far as the Green Line derailment #1, my understanding was the operator manually set switch to line up for Cottage Grove. As he crossed the junction, the tracks underneath switched to the Ashland lineup, which explains why the lead car was straddled between the SB track to Cottage and EB Track curving from the Ashland branch. The back end of car 1 and front end of car 2 is trying to go towards Ashland, but there is another t

hread dedicated to that.

Now you know that is incorrect. The telling evidence was that all four cars were derailed, including the two that hadn't reached the "Englewood switch." The crossover switch showed damage indicating it was crossed while not properly aligned.

While I readily admit I don't work for CTA or any railroad, I would suppose switches don't move on their own, but could move if switch or roadbed beneath is defective? In the case of the Red crossover, it seems like a lineup issue at first. Then the story I read said the operator attempted to go back to get on the right track but could not. The story didn't say why the attempt was unsuccessful, maybe another train, i.e. his follower, was too close?? In any event, CTA is not calling it a derailment.

Your second paragraph is about a different incident (Granville) and could confuse someone reading this. I could not and would not make any statement about the Granville incident. It looks like the last car "split the switch." That didn't happen in either 59th St incident.

DH

[jajuan]

Okay which Green Line derailment are we having the big argument about here? The May 2008 derailment or one of the one each derailments of Dec. 2009 and Jan. 2010? If it's the first one which happened in 2008, which it appears it is from looking at the borrowed ABC7 news photo, that one occurred according to news reports due to operator error when the operator ran the red signal, which should have triggered an automatic trip that was supposed to stop the train after detecting the train ran the signal. That didn't happen because the operator was reported to have overridden the trip without permission and proceeded anyway resulting in the two lead cars to go run off the track because the first car was rolling on the Jackson Park track but the second car somehow started rolling onto the Englewood tracks.

[sw4400]

10/3/12 11:43a

Upcoming Alert for 10/19/12 @ 11:59p until 11/30/12 @ 11:59p

***Red Line North Station Interim Improvement Project Alert***

Rail Line(s) Affected: Red

Service Interruption Severity: Lawrence station will temporarily close for six weeks. Use adjacent stations located at Argyle or Wilson, located within a few blocks of the Lawrence station.

Alternate Service: #36 Broadway and #151 Sheridan buses are available as alternates. In addition, #81 Lawrence buses will be rerouted to serve Wilson station during the duration of the Lawrence station closure.

This is due to station construction that is part of the Red Line North Station Interim Improvement Project.

[chicagopcclcar]

Okay which Green Line derailment are we having the big argument about here? The May 2008 derailment or one of the one each derailments of Dec. 2009 and Jan. 2010? If it's the first one which happened in 2008, which it appears it is from looking at the borrowed ABC7 news photo, that one occurred according to news reports due to operator error when the operator ran the red signal, which should have triggered an automatic trip that was supposed to stop the train after detecting the train ran the signal. That didn't happen because the operator was reported to have overridden the trip without permission and proceeded anyway resulting in the two lead cars to go run off the track because the first car was rolling on the Jackson Park track but the second car somehow started rolling onto the Englewood tracks.

You didn't read what I wrote or you didn't understand what I wrote...which is it?

Post 302

"SB track has a signal at north end of platform. This is a timed approach signal. [A] At the south end of platform (58th St.) is a second signal, another timed approach signal, but it is also a home signal . Next there is a crossover, locally operated. Next is the home signal [C]. Finally there is the switch, automatically operated but with manual overrides, that goes to Englewood. (You might want to diagram all this.)

The entire train was derailed because it went through the crossover that was aligned against it. Thats why they had a second train during the re-enactment. The derailed train then encountered the switch to Englewood and went everywhere. The switch to Englewood did not derail the train, it was already derailed from the crossover.

There had been a normal move through 59th St. JCT. An empty train came from Ashland, stopped beyond the crossovers. The switchman changed ends, activated the crossover, went through and proceeded on to East 63rd. This is a normal putout move. The road train came through, was tripped by signal . Operator though he had exceeded timer, reset, did not call control, proceeded, did not see that crossover was set against him (Reason signal tripped him.) Ran through crossover and got hung up on the Englewood switch.

So now you see....no switch moved under a train. I'll do the second incident separately."

Post 305

"Now you know that is incorrect. The telling evidence was that all four cars were derailed, including the two that hadn't reached the "Englewood switch." The crossover switch showed damage indicating it was crossed while not properly aligned."

[jajuan]

You didn't read what I wrote or you didn't understand what I wrote...which is it?

Post 302

"SB track has a signal at north end of platform. This is a timed approach signal. [A] At the south end of platform (58th St.) is a second signal, another timed approach signal, but it is also a home signal . Next there is a crossover, locally operated. Next is the home signal [C]. Finally there is the switch, automatically operated but with manual overrides, that goes to Englewood. (You might want to diagram all this.)

The entire train was derailed because it went through the crossover that was aligned against it. Thats why they had a second train during the re-enactment. The derailed train then encountered the switch to Englewood and went everywhere. The switch to Englewood did not derail the train, it was already derailed from the crossover.

There had been a normal move through 59th St. JCT. An empty train came from Ashland, stopped beyond the crossovers. The switchman changed ends, activated the crossover, went through and proceeded on to East 63rd. This is a normal putout move. The road train came through, was tripped by signal . Operator though he had exceeded timer, reset, did not call control, proceeded, did not see that crossover was set against him (Reason signal tripped him.) Ran through crossover and got hung up on the Englewood switch.

So now you see....no switch moved under a train. I'll do the second incident separately."

Post 305

"Now you know that is incorrect. The telling evidence was that all four cars were derailed, including the two that hadn't reached the "Englewood switch." The crossover switch showed damage indicating it was crossed while not properly aligned."

Being anal didn't answer the question. But then again given your history I suppose it's to be expected.

[chicagopcclcar]

Being anal didn't answer the question. But then again given your history I suppose it's to be expected.

No one is being anal, whatever that is. Your post sounds to me like you answered your question...."Okay which Green Line derailment are we having the big argument about here? The May 2008 derailment or one of the one each derailments of Dec. 2009 and Jan. 2010? If it's the first one which happened in 2008, which it appears it is from looking at the borrowed ABC7 news photo, ....."

The news reporter was partially wrong, which I corrected. I try to give an accurate, responsible answer when I can or if I know. If I don't know or can't reveal information I won't.

DH

[jajuan]

No one is being anal, whatever that is. Your post sounds to me like you answered your question...."Okay which Green Line derailment are we having the big argument about here? The May 2008 derailment or one of the one each derailments of Dec. 2009 and Jan. 2010? If it's the first one which happened in 2008, which it appears it is from looking at the borrowed ABC7 news photo, ....."

The news reporter was partially wrong, which I corrected. I try to give an accurate, responsible answer when I can or if I know. If I don't know or can't reveal information I won't.

DH

Yeah whatever. And i don't need you to requote my post to me sir.

[chicagopcclcar]

Yeah whatever. And i don't need you to requote my post to me sir.

"Yea whatever"...what kind of damn answer is that. You don't care well don't ask a question. I can't help it if you know little about the operations of the 'L'. Stay stupid if you want to.

DH

[jajuan]

"Yea whatever"...what kind of damn answer is that. You don't care well don't ask a question. I can't help it if you know little about the operations of the 'L'. Stay stupid if you want to.

DH

And you think insulting me is supposed to mean anything? Get real. Yea whatever is "I'm not going to waste time arguing over foolishness". Now if that makes me stupid in your eyes to know not to waste time on a foolish argument and whichever two who wanted to throw you an amen on insulting me, then so be it. Hope that brings a full ray of sunshine to each of your days. Moving along though from the rank immaturity, we know now Berwyn is the current station closed on the Red for the next six weeks and Lawrence gets its turn starting the 19th. So how about how many more stations on the north Red will get one of these quick spruce ups?

[Busjack]

OK, since you were so interested in what we thought caused the 59th St. derailment, how about explaining this post, David?

Greenovered's comment in the CTA Tattler about train stop devices.

[chicagopcclcar]

OK, since you were so interested in what we thought caused the 59th St. derailment, how about explaining this post, David?

Greenovered's comment in the CTA Tattler about train stop devices.

Yes, but Jajuan won't like it. Greenoverred said, "Blah, blah, blah." He talks about too much and never described what actually occurred at Granville Interlocking or what the conditions were. It is not my goal to educate the minions.

Saturday's charter went through the same area in both directions. From what I could observe, the prior incident at Granville had nothing to do with signals, zero, O, ought, nothing. Based on my observations, it was identical to two recent similar events.

DH

[Busjack]

Yes, but Jajuan won't like it. Greenoverred said, "Blah, blah, blah."...

No I don't like it. Greenoverred referred to the track trips. Krambles's book at page 73 say they existed, but were replaced by center trips.

So, basically since your contention is that the operator at 59th went though an open switch, you explain to us how the track trip, the red indication on the cab signal, and the "red over red stop and stay" all 3 failed to stop the derailment. Instead of calling the rest of us stupid, you can do that. Quit bluffing.

[chicagopcclcar]

No I don't like it. Greenoverred referred to the track trips. Krambles's book at page 73 say they existed, but were replaced by center trips.

So, basically since your contention is that the operator at 59th went though an open switch, you explain to us how the track trip, the red indication on the cab signal, and the "red over red stop and stay" all 3 failed to stop the derailment. Instead of calling the rest of us stupid, you can do that. Quit bluffing.

First..I did not call anyone stupid, so don't say that. You asked a question again so that indicates interest, which is good. But you are not using some basic thought to figure what might have happened. An eight car train going southbound crossed over and the last car went in error. Isn't that what happened? Signals affect the first car, not the last car. There are sixteen trucks...fifteen trucks made the move successfully. What does that imply?

DH

[Busjack]

So, basically since your contention is that the operator at 59th went though an open switch, you explain to us how the track trip, the red indication on the cab signal, and the "red over red stop and stay" all 3 failed to stop the derailment. Instead of calling the rest of us stupid, you can do that. Quit bluffing.

First..I did not call anyone stupid, so don't say that. You asked a question again so that indicates interest, which is good. But you are not using some basic thought to figure what might have happened. An eight car train going southbound crossed over and the last car went in error. Isn't that what happened? Signals affect the first car, not the last car. There are sixteen trucks...fifteen trucks made the move successfully. What does that imply?

Talking about basic thought, as the above quote from my post indicated, I was going back to 59th. You didn't answer that.

But as far as Granville, based on the Tribune article, you explain to us:

• Was the operator sent on the correct routing when the southbound train crossed onto the northbound track? The indication from the article is that the operator at some point realized that she shouldn't have taken the crossover.
• If 15 out of 16 trucks got over, and according to CTA Spokesgoddess Tammy Chase, there wasn't a derailment because the wheels never lost contact with the rails, why did the 16th not clear the crossover? Since it was characterized as a " a 'split switch issue,'' what split the switch after 7/8ths of the train cleared it?
• What does that imply? That the switch was moved after the train partially cleared it.

In any event, you made it clear that it is irrelevant what it implies to me. What you should be explaining for both incidents is how they could have happened, given the cab and wayside signals, and supposedly fail safe trips on the approaches to the switches.

Or it it just that CTA train operators don't exercise basic thought, and periodically run through open and split switches, despite the above? Claiming to have been one, you should know one way or the other.

But please, read and comprehend the post before hitting Reply.

[Busjack]

Talking about basic thought, as the above quote from my post indicated, I was going back to 59th. You didn't answer that.

...

But please, read and comprehend the post before hitting Reply.

No, forget it, David H. Greenovered posted a comprehensive reply today on the CTA Tattler (same link as before), and I'm sure that your blah...blah...blah indicates that you don't have the answer, nor can refute him.

He does provide an e-mail address in case you need clarification.

[sw4400]

Busjack, chicagopcclcar and jajuan...

I don't know what started this petty arguement, and I don't care. Take this arguing to this thread and feel free to argue there... This thread is to post Rail Service Alerts that are currently active, and if you want to discuss them without the personal attacks, fine... but this pointless arguing is unacceptable and not tolerated.

From the chicagobus.org guidelines page

Act appropriately. Members should demonstrate a professional demeanor and respect others. Personal attacks are not acceptable.

I've viewed your posts before, and you've all been unprofessional starting from this post here.

[sw4400]

10/10/12 1:07p

Upcoming Alert for 10/12 @ 10p, 10/13, 10/14 and early morning 10/15/12

***Loop-Renewal Rail Alerts***

Rail Line(s) Affected: Brown, Orange, Pink, Green

Service Interruption Severity: Planned Reroute for Loop-Renewal Project

Brown and Orange Lines: Trains will operate as one route, between Kimball and Midway, via Wells and Van Buren.

Green Line: Trains will operate between Harlem and 63rd via Wells and Van Buren.

Pink Line: Trains will operate between 54th/Cermak and Downtown via Wells and Van Buren. Trains will begin/end their trips at Roosevelt station.

Passengers may transfer between the Loop Elevated, Blue and Red Line Subways at Harold Washington Library*(Loop Elevated Trains) and Jackson(Dearborn and State St. Subways) Stations.

*= Farecard required for transfer at these stations

[jajuan]

Yes, but Jajuan won't like it. Greenoverred said, "Blah, blah, blah." He talks about too much and never described what actually occurred at Granville Interlocking or what the conditions were. It is not my goal to educate the minions.

Saturday's charter went through the same area in both directions. From what I could observe, the prior incident at Granville had nothing to do with signals, zero, O, ought, nothing. Based on my observations, it was identical to two recent similar events.

DH

And how about you leave my name out a discussion that is now between you and Busjack since he posed the question to you.

[sw4400]

10/11/12 10:37p

Upcoming Alert for 10/12/12 @ 10:00p until 10/15/12 @ 4:00a

***Station Project Alert***

Rail Line(s) Affected: Purple

Service Interruption Severity: Purple Line trains will not stop at Noyes Station. Use adjacent stations at Central and Foster for rail service

Alternate Service: The #201 Central/Ridge bus is also available for alternate service on Sheridan Rd.(0.3 miles east of Noyes station) and on Central Ave.(Saturday only approx. 9:10a-7:30p)

This is due to station construction to improve Noyes station as part of the station renewal program.

[sw4400]

10/17/12 10:51a

Upcoming Alert for 10/19/12 @ 10:00p until 10/22/12 @ 4:00a

***Station Project Alert***

Rail Line(s) Affected: Green

Service Interruption Severity: Service Suspended between 35th-Bronzeville-IIT and Garfield stations. Trains will operate between Ashland/63rd, Cottage Grove and Garfield and between 35th-Bronzeville-IIT, Downtown and Harlem/Lake.

Alternate Service: Shuttle buses will replace rail service between the 35th-Bronzeville-IIT and Garfield stations.

This is due to station construction to improve Indiana, 47th and 51st St. stations as part of the Station Renewal Program

[Busjack]

Another one from the Department of Redundancy Department, but 2 blocks east of most of them.